Forums - Politics Discussion - United States should downsize the population by ending all immigration and creating incentives for having fewer kids.

Should united states downsize it's population.

Yes 14 18.92%
 
No 58 78.38%
 
Maybe 2 2.70%
 
Total:74

You can get the ball rolling and renounce your citizenship and move to another country!



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Isn't it super bad for the economy when you have a larger retired population than a working population?



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

Snoopy said:
sundin13 said:
You need to prove this point first:

"There is not enough jobs, money or resources to go around"

As we just left a time of historically low unemployment, I think our capacity for jobs is still more than suitable. The statement "there isn't enough money to go around" seems functionally nonsensical. I have also seen no evidence that we are short on resources, as, for example, we waste 80billion pounds of food each year, which is enough to feed roughly 40million people.

A lot of Americans are already starving.

https://mashable.com/2016/07/14/child-hunger-united-states/#:~:text=1.,struggle%20with%20hunger%20each%20year.&text=An%20estimated%2048.8%20million%20Americans,some%20point%20during%20the%20year.

25% of Jobs in US are at risk of being automated.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/25/these-workers-face-the-highest-risk-of-losing-their-jobs-to-automation.html

And I am pretty sure I don't need to show source on United States debt and the lack of money to provide benefits such as social security/ medicare in the near future.

The fact that Americans are starving is insufficient to prove your argument. There could be other factors contributing to this than a lack of food. Last time I checked, my grocery stores are still stocked, so I don't think they are starving because the stores near them simply lack food. My alternate hypothesis, is that this is a symptom of economic inequality and insufficient social safety nets, not a symptom of insufficient resources.

The same can be said for the argument regarding automation. Automation will certainly change our job system, but will it result in a severe net decline in jobs? That is an entirely different question, and research has shown that Automation may actually increase the size of the job market and the average wage of jobs.

https://www.sensrtrx.com/robot-automation-can-actually-create-more-jobs/

However, even if we have to cope with a post-scarcity economy, the solution to that isn't necessarily reducing the population. Automation generates economic product and increases productivity and efficiency of manufacturing, which maintains a source of highly taxable capital which can then be redistributed to the people. This will very much change our society and economy, however, it isn't an existential threat, by any means.

I can also go further and describe the negative consequences of a declining population, however, I see no point if you cannot prove the fundamental assertion upholding your argument.



Snoopy said:
This opinion is unpopular with a lot of people I've talked to, but I don't care. There are over 320 million people living in the United States and the rate of growth is exponential. There is not enough jobs, money or resources to go around especially when automation is ramping up and killing the need for humans. Truck Drivers, Teachers, Retail, Restaurants / Fast food, warehouses, farming, some IT jobs (especially because of cloud services), and I can go on all day. I hate saying this opinion especially because I know a lot of people seek to be here in the United States, but this can't sustain for very long. Also, this should apply to the world, but since I live in the United States, I can only focus on our country.
 
I might be wrong and someone can point it out. Most of this is just me speaking from the top of my head.

This is very poorly reasoned.  No matter what, the number of jobs available will always be based on the size of the population.  More people equals more people buying stuff and needing services.  If we cut back the number of people in the country then jobs would naturally decline as well.  Job loss due to automation will happen regardless of population size.  Cutting immigration or curtailing population is not an answer.  Training and emphasizing job sectors that aren’t in danger of being lost to automation is the answer.



RolStoppable said:
Wouldn't it just be easier to hand out free guns to all citizens? That should bring the numbers down.

Guns aren’t all that expensive... if people want a gun here... they have one...



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zorg1000 said:
Isn't it super bad for the economy when you have a larger retired population than a working population?

Don't worry corporations already have a plan for that.  Pay as little as possible thus ensuring that one has to work the rest of their life without retiring.



Chinese Comunist Party is in panic mode trying to increase China fertility rate, which fell bellow 2.1 in 1990. It means, accordind to the statistics, its pobulation will peak between 2025 and 2030, and will only shrink from now on.



zorg1000 said:
Isn't it super bad for the economy when you have a larger retired population than a working population?

Depends. If there's any kind of national pension system, then yes it's likely going to be a very bad thing. Without a national pension system such a situation would be very unlikely in the first place (since a lot less people would even be able to retire), but if it were to happen it may not actually be a problem.



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It's bad because currently, the pension system is a Ponzy scheme where the working population funds the pensions of the retirees. If the working population shrinks while more people apply for retirement, it means either the shrinking working population will have to be taxed more or the retirees will suffer large cuts in their retirement benefits.



Snoopy said:
This opinion is unpopular with a lot of people I've talked to, but I don't care. There are over 320 million people living in the United States and the rate of growth is exponential. There is not enough jobs, money or resources to go around especially when automation is ramping up and killing the need for humans. Truck Drivers, Teachers, Retail, Restaurants / Fast food, warehouses, farming, some IT jobs (especially because of cloud services), and I can go on all day. I hate saying this opinion especially because I know a lot of people seek to be here in the United States, but this can't sustain for very long. Also, this should apply to the world, but since I live in the United States, I can only focus on our country.
 
I might be wrong and someone can point it out. Most of this is just me speaking from the top of my head.

Definitely not. Here in Japan how to stop the ageing and decling population is a big political issue. People know it would be a bad thing and something needs to be done to keep the country ticking over mostly as is (or better).

Plus, more jobs are easy to make. Here we have elevator attendants. Is pushing the elevator buttons and announcing which floor the elevator has stopped on a needed job? No, it's absolutely stupid that such a thing exists (and if what I've seen on TV/movies is true you have petrol station attendants in America already, so y'all are clearly already willing to pay people for completely unnecessary jobs). Yet somebody is still paid to do it. I'm sure people could think of much more worthwhile things to employ people for if it were needed.



Bet Shiken that COD would outsell Battlefield in 2018. http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8749702