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Forums - Gaming - MS Executive says Devs will need to learn how to work around Slower SSD on XSX

DonFerrari on 09 June 2020
Pemalite said:
Snoopy said:

ORI dev confirmed what I said. Third parties aren't going to take full advantage of the faster SSD because they are not going to exclude Xbox One series x or PCs that are still using HDD.

Bulk of PC's sold today, even low-end netbooks use SSD's.
Xbox Series X is also using an SSD.

Most devices today, including phones and tablets... You guessed it. Use an SSD.

That still doesn't make the SSD as minimum requirement for the bulk of PC games. And bulk of games using HDD as baseline.

Last edited by DonFerrari - on 09 June 2020

duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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Pemalite on 09 June 2020
DonFerrari said:
Pemalite said:

Bulk of PC's sold today, even low-end netbooks use SSD's.
Xbox Series X is also using an SSD.

Most devices today, including phones and tablets... You guessed it. Use an SSD.

That still doesn't make the SSD as minimum requirement for the bulk of PC games. And bulk of games using HDD as baseline.

What games require really is up to the developer.

The hardware is there for them to use, has been for years, guess the wait was for the rest of the industry to catch up.

But some games on PC did showcase advantages with an SSD with less object and texture pop-in, higher load times and so forth.




www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

DonFerrari on 09 June 2020
Pemalite said:
DonFerrari said:

That still doesn't make the SSD as minimum requirement for the bulk of PC games. And bulk of games using HDD as baseline.

What games require really is up to the developer.

The hardware is there for them to use, has been for years, guess the wait was for the rest of the industry to catch up.

But some games on PC did showcase advantages with an SSD with less object and texture pop-in, higher load times and so forth.

With console finally moving to that standard perhaps in a couple years PC will also have SSD as minimum (or similar solutions as you put with RAM) so more changes mainly on how game is made and played can be seem.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Hynad on 09 June 2020
Pemalite said:
Hynad said:

What makes you think they have a similar solution to PS5? Where has that ever been mentioned? 

Right.

God forbid the PS5 will have a clear advantage over the XBSX (and PC) in one aspect of its architecture... -___-

 

That is a logical fallacy.
Microsoft has already demonstrated it has invested allot in what drives it's SSD.

And nor am I proclaiming the Playstation 5 doesn't have an advantage over the Xbox Series X in the SSD stakes.

...But verses the PC, the Playstation 5 still cannot match an Enthusiast/Workstation class rig, which is expected of course.

Go and tell that to someone who's not a simple enthusiast:





HollyGamer on 09 June 2020
Trunkin said:
HollyGamer said:

graphical setting are related to asset and texture, I am agree Xbox will have slightly better resolution or more stable frame rates. But with faster SSD and costume IO it will result on batter triangle count for high quality assets and high resolution textures. 

So quality asset (IQ)/ high quality 8k textures will be superior on PS5 over Xbox SX.  Unless Xbox using traditional loading method by dumping all assets to the RAM (old gen games) 

The GPU still has to draw all those triangles, though. If 60fps becomes the standard next gen, it'll have to draw them twice as fast, too. Even if the PS5's SSD can stream all those movie quality assets, I doubt the GPU ciould keep up in that case.

The problem is not how powerful the GPU able to draw (rendered ), but how many data the GPU can used to draw that triangle. A powerful GPU cannot do anything if no data available on the RAM that can be rendered per cycle. That's why ,RAM becoming crucial. But next gen RAM are limited , that's why all data and assets/texture will just be streamed instead loaded in RAM. That's why SSD bandwidth are the important factor to determine how much data can be send to the GPU. 

GPU for both already very powerful even for PS4 and Xbox. The problem is each assets need a lot of data. We already have plenty compute and algoritme capability. The problem is the amount of data that need to calculate also very hefty



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goopy20 on 10 June 2020
EricHiggin said:

Nah. Devs will just target the lowest common denominator. So the PS5 SSD advantage will mean nothing, along with the XBSX GPU advantage.

I wonder how this might change the marketing scheme's going forward?

Maybe that's true. But you also have to consider that if the ps5 really is so much easier to develop for and we're seeing the same or even bigger gap in install base as we're seeing with ps4 vs Xone, 3rd party developers will probable be lining up to make ps5 exclusives. Games like GTA and COD are always going to sell on Xbox too, but look at games like Monster Hunter World. It didn't even sell 1m copies on Xbox and over 4m on ps4.



Pemalite on 10 June 2020
DonFerrari said:
Pemalite said:

What games require really is up to the developer.

The hardware is there for them to use, has been for years, guess the wait was for the rest of the industry to catch up.

But some games on PC did showcase advantages with an SSD with less object and texture pop-in, higher load times and so forth.

With console finally moving to that standard perhaps in a couple years PC will also have SSD as minimum (or similar solutions as you put with RAM) so more changes mainly on how game is made and played can be seem.

There is no guarantee or forced requirement for games to use an SSD as a minimum on next-gen consoles, it's entirely up to the developer.

Just like there was no guarantee or forced requirement for 4k on the "4k consoles" aka, Xbox One X and Playstation 4 Pro.

Just like there was no guarantee of a force 1080P requirement for the Full HD consoles. Aka Xbox One and Playstation 4.

Just like there was no guarantee of 720P on the HD consoles, aka. Xbox 360 and Playstation 3.

There is absolutely no guarantee that all games, even a majority of games will leverage the SSD's benefits to the maximum extent theoretically possible on *any* platform...

And that applies to every other feature like 4k, 8k, 60fps, 120fps, Ray Tracing, Tessellation, Motion Controls, Virtual Reality, Augmented Reality, Cloud features or whatever else we can think of.

It is entirely up to the developer... And not all developers are going to prioritize the extra computational capability of the Xbox Series X or the SSD bandwidth of the Playstation 5.

Will there be games that do use those aspects in their entirety? Certainly, but until we have the games starting to get released, I am going to reserve judgement so we can ascertain what the game development trends ends up being... Because it's a very disruptive 12 months for game development as there is a paradigm shift occurring with how games are being rendered and developed.

Hynad said:
Pemalite said:

That is a logical fallacy.
Microsoft has already demonstrated it has invested allot in what drives it's SSD.

And nor am I proclaiming the Playstation 5 doesn't have an advantage over the Xbox Series X in the SSD stakes.

...But verses the PC, the Playstation 5 still cannot match an Enthusiast/Workstation class rig, which is expected of course.

Go and tell that to someone who's not a simple enthusiast:

He is talking in hypotheticals, he says it himself.





www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

goopy20 on 10 June 2020
Pemalite said:
DonFerrari said:

With console finally moving to that standard perhaps in a couple years PC will also have SSD as minimum (or similar solutions as you put with RAM) so more changes mainly on how game is made and played can be seem.

There is no guarantee or forced requirement for games to use an SSD as a minimum on next-gen consoles, it's entirely up to the developer.

Just like there was no guarantee or forced requirement for 4k on the "4k consoles" aka, Xbox One X and Playstation 4 Pro.

Just like there was no guarantee of a force 1080P requirement for the Full HD consoles. Aka Xbox One and Playstation 4.

Just like there was no guarantee of 720P on the HD consoles, aka. Xbox 360 and Playstation 3.

There is absolutely no guarantee that all games, even a majority of games will leverage the SSD's benefits to the maximum extent theoretically possible on *any* platform...

And that applies to every other feature like 4k, 8k, 60fps, 120fps, Ray Tracing, Tessellation, Motion Controls, Virtual Reality, Augmented Reality, Cloud features or whatever else we can think of.

It is entirely up to the developer... And not all developers are going to prioritize the extra computational capability of the Xbox Series X or the SSD bandwidth of the Playstation 5.

Will there be games that do use those aspects in their entirety? Certainly, but until we have the games starting to get released, I am going to reserve judgement so we can ascertain what the game development trends ends up being... Because it's a very disruptive 12 months for game development as there is a paradigm shift occurring with how games are being rendered and developed.

I agree but the AAA developers also need to keep up with the competition. For example, if Dice decides to make full use of Sony's SSD tech, and BF7 end up looking much better than lets say the next COD because that game isn't. Infinity Wards will probably end up integrating the SSD tech into their next game too.

If Sony's SSD tech really is a game changer then I'm guessing Sony's exclusives will set a new standard that 3rd party developers will have to keep up with. Its kinda what Sony was aiming for with the ps3's Cell and that didn't really work out great for them. But this time it could be a different story, though. Especially when developers are all raving on about how great the ps5's devkit is compared to the Series X's. Here's a quote from a Crytek developer who probably knows what he's talking about.

"As a programmer, I would say that the PlayStation 5 is much better, and I don’t think you can find a programmer who chooses [Xbox Series X] over PS5. For the Xbox, they have to put DirectX and Windows on the console, which is many years old, but for each new console that Sony builds, it also rebuilds the software and APIs in any way it wants. It is in their interest and in our interest. Because there is only one way to do everything, and theirs is the best way possible."

Guess we have to wait and see how the major 3rd party developers will react but we already know Epic is 100% on board when it comes to fully supporting Sony's SSD. Hell, they played a major role in designing the ps5's architecture and build core features of their engine specifically around it. 

Last edited by goopy20 - on 10 June 2020

Oneeee-Chan!!! on 10 June 2020
Snoopy said:
eva01beserk said:

Yes it does. Expect it pretty frequently in Japanese centric games that sell like dog shit on xbox. Devs wont care to optimize for it as it wont sell anyways. I dont think thouse devs even sent out review copys that are not playstation.

There are a few Japanese centric exclusive games nowadays for consoles and the number is getting smaller and smaller for Playstation. Japan moved to mobile platform for the most part.

Are the Animal Crossing , FF7 remake, Resident Evil 3  Japanese-centric game?



kirby007 on 10 June 2020
DonFerrari said:
eva01beserk said:

To be fair, I also dont play any multiplayer. :p

me neither.

Vice versa



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