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Forums - Gaming Discussion - MS Executive says Devs will need to learn how to work around Slower SSD on XSX

kirby007 said:
eva01beserk said:

no need to wait until next gen, I would say this gen was decided by the games. Just MS fans who want to find any little excuse just to not admit the xbox ine up has been underwhelming for the last 10 years.

Quite sure MS had the better multiplayer games after nintendo ofc

Sony has almost none so thats not saying much. I think they can have that one crown while sony has all the others.



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I'll just wait to see the games. At this point I'm tired of tech talk. Thursday can't come soon enough.



Rafie said:
yvanjean said:

Just a bunch of stupid click bait articles. Trying to boost Sony's minor SSD advantage over Xbox, ignoring all other important facts. The article and podcast talk about slower SDD vs Faster CPU/GPU, Sony PS5 focus coverage only talks about the slower SSD. Newsflash there will still be bottleneck and limitation on the PS5. The faster SSD isn't a miracle piece of hardware that future proof the console for the next 10 years. In 3-4 years, when Sony releases a PS5 Pro everyone will have to eat crow. 

When it comes to Hardware base boost to games, the XSX faster GPU and PCU will offer more advantages than Sony's faster SSD for cross-platform games.
All this really means is cross-platform games will have better or no load time on Sony consoles while Xbox games will offer better resolution and frame rate.
People are quick to forget that you are still comparing SSD vs SSD, the SSD in XSX is going to offer all of the same advantages that will benefit the PS5 just at a smaller scale.


So is the GPU and CPU of the Series X a minor advantage of PS5's? I'm genuinely asking. I hear a lot of PS fans say how big the SSD is over XBox's. I also hear Xbox fans say how much more vast the GPU/CPU is over. Won't the GPU/CPU of PS5 offer the same thing as Series X, but on a smaller scale?

Everything that can be done on one console can be easily be done on the other, it's just at what costs. The only benefit is some features might be better on one console over the other. At least for PS5 fans, they should always be the clear winner when it comes to load time. But, don't forget that XSX is going to enjoy much faster load time and the performance of a dedicated SSD when we move to next-gen. When it comes to better games performance Faster GPU & CPU > SSD. 

Some games are more GPU/CPU intense. When it comes to first-party PS5 games, they will build the game from the ground up to move as much of the workload to the SSD. Cross-platform or third party games development on the other end might still be targeting PC HDD, that's why PS5 SSD will be even less of an advantage other than better load times to boost games performance. 



yvanjean said:
Rafie said:

So is the GPU and CPU of the Series X a minor advantage of PS5's? I'm genuinely asking. I hear a lot of PS fans say how big the SSD is over XBox's. I also hear Xbox fans say how much more vast the GPU/CPU is over. Won't the GPU/CPU of PS5 offer the same thing as Series X, but on a smaller scale?

Everything that can be done on one console can be easily be done on the other, it's just at what costs. The only benefit is some features might be better on one console over the other. At least for PS5 fans, they should always be the clear winner when it comes to load time. But, don't forget that XSX is going to enjoy much faster load time and the performance of a dedicated SSD when we move to next-gen. When it comes to better games performance Faster GPU & CPU > SSD. 

Some games are more GPU/CPU intense. When it comes to first-party PS5 games, they will build the game from the ground up to move as much of the workload to the SSD. Cross-platform or third party games development on the other end might still be targeting PC HDD, that's why PS5 SSD will be even less of an advantage other than better load times to boost games performance. 

also SSD is not just loading but streaming assets , texture, etc. it will be resulting on better quality assets , high texture resolution , more dense, more real life like and photo realistic. 

So in worst case scenario we will see 1400p on PS5 with 8k texture and large  triangle account,  while on Xbox SX we will see around 1500p  with 4k texture and small triangle account. Both will have the same Frame Rates. with slightly better Ray Tracing on Xbox SX. 



eva01beserk said:
kirby007 said:

Quite sure MS had the better multiplayer games after nintendo ofc

Sony has almost none so thats not saying much. I think they can have that one crown while sony has all the others.

Well the most played multiplayer games are 3rd party anyway.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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shikamaru317 said:
HollyGamer said:

also SSD is not just loading but streaming assets , texture, etc. it will be resulting on better quality assets , high texture resolution , more dense, more real rile and photo realistic . 

So in worst case scenario we will see 1400p on PS5 with 8k texture and hight  triangle account,  while on Xbox SX we will see around 1500p  with 4k texture and low triangle account. Both will have the same Frame Rates. with slightly better Rau Tracing on Xbox SX. 

Those tweets are kind of dumb though, lol. Destiny 2 is a current gen game, not a next-gen game, of course it can run at 4K 60 fps on both. And Destiny 2 getting a free upgrade may be a unique case spearheaded by Bungie, we won't know if Sony has a full-scale program for free next-gen upgrades until the show on Thursday, they may have a SmartSelivery like program and they might now. 

As for the other guy, why would he think the real world difference would only be about 1 tflop? PS5's 10.3 tflop number is achieved using it's maximum clockrate, but the clockrate is variable, it can go lower at times. But even disregarding that, Sony and MS are using 2 fundamentally different GPU strategies. One console has alot of CU's at a slower clock rate, while the other has a lot less CU's at a much higher clockrate. I don't think any of us can say for certain how big the real world difference between the 2 GPU's will be until we have some 3rd party multiplat games out on the market for Digital Foundry to test. That being said though, we do know from PC testing of AMD's RDNA 1 GPU's, that when you compare a GPU with more CU's vs. a GPU with a less CU's at a higher clockrate, games tend to respond better to more CU's than a higher clockrate. Maybe things will somehow be different from that on RDNA 2, but it seems kind of unlikely to me. Raytracing also seems to respond better to more cores than it does to higher clockrates.

You seem to be forgetting that RAM is an important factor in texture streaming as well. And XSX's 10 GB of GPU focused RAM are faster than PS5's 16 GB shared pool of RAM. I would highly doubt that we will see higher quality textures on PS5 than on XSX for 3rd party multiplat games. 

PS5 will run with variable clock speed " based on workload ", it means it can sustain maximum clock speed forever if it has too, but games don't have the same scene , the same event and the same density of polygon and geometry across the level. So the variable is there to make the efficiency for Power. 

Example : When the character encounter high polygon or entering city with high density object/ character/enemy , the GPU will run accordingly with higher clock, but when the main character go outside barren world like dessert, the clock speed will be lower.

Second it will be easy for developer to programed on high clock speed  and also inside the GPu there other command processing unit that better when it run with higher clock speed.

even we have an example on how RTX 2060 desktop (with less shader unit but with higher clock speed ) VS RTX 2080 Max Q Laptop ( with more Shader unit but lower clock speed) . Both have equal performance 

The RAM on Xbox are spilt speed, 6 GB for OS/system run at 300 Gb/s  something, and 10 GB with 560 GB something. Remember in the end  "the high speed " need to match " the lower clock speed ",  because both GPU and CPU need both RAM, so the high speed. In the end it will be just PS5 RAM with 448 Gb/s . PS5 RAM are equally unified all system and VRAM are the same speed. In the end they will be the same. 

Also RAM will not be the biggest factor when it comes to streaming high quality assets. But SSD speed. Unless the  assets are not streamed but pre loaded via loading (by dumping all asset to RAM) . But that's required a lot of RAM and can only be utilize on PC with more system RAM.  

So PS5 and Xbox SX in term of GPU is super tiny slighty win for Xbox no doubt but in real games performance it will just be the same.

But for SSD and IO , PS5 far head compared to Xbox SX.

Last edited by HollyGamer - on 09 June 2020

HollyGamer said:
shikamaru317 said:

Those tweets are kind of dumb though, lol. Destiny 2 is a current gen game, not a next-gen game, of course it can run at 4K 60 fps on both. And Destiny 2 getting a free upgrade may be a unique case spearheaded by Bungie, we won't know if Sony has a full-scale program for free next-gen upgrades until the show on Thursday, they may have a SmartSelivery like program and they might now. 

As for the other guy, why would he think the real world difference would only be about 1 tflop? PS5's 10.3 tflop number is achieved using it's maximum clockrate, but the clockrate is variable, it can go lower at times. But even disregarding that, Sony and MS are using 2 fundamentally different GPU strategies. One console has alot of CU's at a slower clock rate, while the other has a lot less CU's at a much higher clockrate. I don't think any of us can say for certain how big the real world difference between the 2 GPU's will be until we have some 3rd party multiplat games out on the market for Digital Foundry to test. That being said though, we do know from PC testing of AMD's RDNA 1 GPU's, that when you compare a GPU with more CU's vs. a GPU with a less CU's at a higher clockrate, games tend to respond better to more CU's than a higher clockrate. Maybe things will somehow be different from that on RDNA 2, but it seems kind of unlikely to me. Raytracing also seems to respond better to more cores than it does to higher clockrates.

You seem to be forgetting that RAM is an important factor in texture streaming as well. And XSX's 10 GB of GPU focused RAM are faster than PS5's 16 GB shared pool of RAM. I would highly doubt that we will see higher quality textures on PS5 than on XSX for 3rd party multiplat games. 

PS5 will run with variable clock speed " based on workload ", it means it can sustain maximum clock speed forever if it has too, but games don't have the same scene , the same event and the same density of polygon and geometry across the level. So the variable is there to make the efficiency for Power. 

second it will be easy for developer to programed on high clock speed  and also inside the GPu there other command processing unit that better when it run with higher clock speed.

even we have an example on how RTX 2060 desktop (with less shader unit but with higher clock speed ) VS RTX 2080 Max Q Laptop ( with more Shader unit but lower clock speed) . Both have equal performance 

The RAM on Xbox are spilt speed, 6 GB for OS/system run at 300 Gb/s  something, and 10 GB with 560 GB something. Remember in the end  "the high speed " need to match " the lower clock speed ",  because both GPU and CPU need both RAM, so the high speed. In the end it will be just PS5 RAM with 448 Gb/s . PS5 RAM are equally unified all system and VRAM are the same speed. In the end they will be the same. 

Also RAM will not be the biggest factor when it comes to streaming high quality assets. But SSD speed. Unless the  assets are not streamed but pre loaded via loading (by dumping all asset to RAM) . But that's required a lot of RAM and can only be utilize on PC with more system RAM.  

Most likely the lower speed RAM on XSX will be used for OS, resume and parts that are bigger in size but slower on refreshment. So in the end the RAM bandwidth and complexity will be almost 0 difference between both consoles.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
HollyGamer said:

PS5 will run with variable clock speed " based on workload ", it means it can sustain maximum clock speed forever if it has too, but games don't have the same scene , the same event and the same density of polygon and geometry across the level. So the variable is there to make the efficiency for Power. 

second it will be easy for developer to programed on high clock speed  and also inside the GPu there other command processing unit that better when it run with higher clock speed.

even we have an example on how RTX 2060 desktop (with less shader unit but with higher clock speed ) VS RTX 2080 Max Q Laptop ( with more Shader unit but lower clock speed) . Both have equal performance 

The RAM on Xbox are spilt speed, 6 GB for OS/system run at 300 Gb/s  something, and 10 GB with 560 GB something. Remember in the end  "the high speed " need to match " the lower clock speed ",  because both GPU and CPU need both RAM, so the high speed. In the end it will be just PS5 RAM with 448 Gb/s . PS5 RAM are equally unified all system and VRAM are the same speed. In the end they will be the same. 

Also RAM will not be the biggest factor when it comes to streaming high quality assets. But SSD speed. Unless the  assets are not streamed but pre loaded via loading (by dumping all asset to RAM) . But that's required a lot of RAM and can only be utilize on PC with more system RAM.  

Most likely the lower speed RAM on XSX will be used for OS, resume and parts that are bigger in size but slower on refreshment. So in the end the RAM bandwidth and complexity will be almost 0 difference between both consoles.

Yup it will be the same



DonFerrari said:
eva01beserk said:

Sony has almost none so thats not saying much. I think they can have that one crown while sony has all the others.

Well the most played multiplayer games are 3rd party anyway.

Cop out not need it. I dont get upset that my preferred console does not beat the competition in every aspect and feel the need to damage control. 



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

eva01beserk said:
DonFerrari said:

Well the most played multiplayer games are 3rd party anyway.

Cop out not need it. I dont get upset that my preferred console does not beat the competition in every aspect and feel the need to damage control. 

No doubt Xbox exclusive multiplayers are better than Playstation, and certainly Nintendo is better than both on this aspect, itself that doesn't tip the scale much because of the multiplats, but sure no need to damage control that.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."