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Forums - Gaming Discussion - MS Executive says Devs will need to learn how to work around Slower SSD on XSX

eva01beserk on 09 June 2020
shikamaru317 said:
TruckOSaurus said:

I don't know or care much about specs talk but mark my words: the PS5 version of 3rd party games WILL have elevators!

You're 100% right. 3rd party multiplat games are designed for the lowest common denominator and then scaled up usually. Most 3rd party multiplats the first 2 years of the gen will be cross-gen games, meaning they have to be designed so they can run on the base Xbox One and PS4, which have slow 5400 RPM laptop hardrives. Once last-gen support starts to get dropped in 2022 and 3rd party multiplats start to become PC/XSX/PS5 only, the lowest common denominator will become low spec PC gamers, and many low spec PC gamers will be running SATA SSD's, which are a good deal cheaper and slower than Xbox Series X's NVMe SSD, let alone PS5's NVMe SSD. Since the lowest common denominator will be a SATA SSD, elevators will still be used to mask loading screens, as they always have been.

And of course, not all elevators are in games just to mask loading screens, sometimes it is a design choice. Elevator battles are common in many games, with waves of enemies attacking while going up an elevator, devs aren't going to just suddenly start abandoning that particular gaming trope.

Does that comon denominator factor only applies to SSD's?



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

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Rafie on 09 June 2020
yvanjean said:

Just a bunch of stupid click bait articles. Trying to boost Sony's minor SSD advantage over Xbox, ignoring all other important facts. The article and podcast talk about slower SDD vs Faster CPU/GPU, Sony PS5 focus coverage only talks about the slower SSD. Newsflash there will still be bottleneck and limitation on the PS5. The faster SSD isn't a miracle piece of hardware that future proof the console for the next 10 years. In 3-4 years, when Sony releases a PS5 Pro everyone will have to eat crow. 

When it comes to Hardware base boost to games, the XSX faster GPU and PCU will offer more advantages than Sony's faster SSD for cross-platform games.
All this really means is cross-platform games will have better or no load time on Sony consoles while Xbox games will offer better resolution and frame rate.
People are quick to forget that you are still comparing SSD vs SSD, the SSD in XSX is going to offer all of the same advantages that will benefit the PS5 just at a smaller scale.


So is the GPU and CPU of the Series X a minor advantage of PS5's? I'm genuinely asking. I hear a lot of PS fans say how big the SSD is over XBox's. I also hear Xbox fans say how much more vast the GPU/CPU is over. Won't the GPU/CPU of PS5 offer the same thing as Series X, but on a smaller scale?



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setsunatenshi on 09 June 2020
Snoopy said:
Drakrami said:

why does everything you say involves Forza rofl.. I am not a game dev, but even I know the architecture for driving games are way different, why are you using it as an example when we are obviously discussing about the potential for AAA open world games like GTA, Red Dead, Assassins Creed, Dark souls; etc...

I realize MS has released very few games the last several years so all you can bring up is Forza, but please try to use other points. 

Because Forza Horizon 4 is an open world game that is 4k and allows you to travel fast. Forza Horizon and  GTA are the only open world games that requires you to render 4k assets at a fast speed and one x / PC with basic SSD is already doing a good job.

lol, not sure if that's a joke post, but it's funny regardless :D

Well done hehe



DonFerrari on 09 June 2020
padib said:
DonFerrari said:

Yep Cerny speculate that because of the lack of priority levels the system would need to abstract it so to get similar results to the internal 5Gb/s drive you would need a standard (2 priorities instead of 6) that reached 7 and yes Gb/s. The reason they were talking about validation as well is because most of the high speed SSDs available had form factors that wouldn`t fit into the console (like heatsinks as whatnot).

Don, @bold, are you sure it is not GBps? From the road to PS5 video, cerny shows slides that mention 5.5GBps (gyga bytes per second) for the PS5 SSD.

Well probaly would be GB/s. But you understand the point =p any drive that fits the slot, have speed should be available, the important part of the I/O happens outside of the drive, not sure about the MS reasons (I know there integrated heatsink and I think some of the logic may be there) but perhaps grey companies will sell their SSDs for Xbox as well.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari on 09 June 2020
TruckOSaurus said:
setsunatenshi said:

I think the market will dictate if that's the case, I for one won't be buying anymore elevator games next gen :P

I bet you will. Yes, elevators are often used to hide load times but they also make sense narratively speaking sometimes. I mean stairs are cool and all but when you need to go up 60 floors, elevators kick ass. 

But the stairs doesn`t have people using or bothering you =p

But tell you the truth it been years I played a beat the up with elevator like streets of rage on genesis. They were terrifyingly hard.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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gergroy on 09 June 2020
DonFerrari said:
RaptorChrist said:
I haven't been on here much lately, and have been slow to find out about some of the gaming news, but reading about all of these comparisons really makes me wonder how much of this is "console war propaganda", how much is bias, and how much is the truth.

I wish I had the ability to jump into a parallel universe where the specs were reversed to see if people latched onto some other aspect where their console was favorable.

Do people really favor a faster SSD over faster GPU/CPU? I guess that is somewhat rhetorical, as I can't expect to get honest answers out of most people. But more importantly, how many actually understand the role the SSD plays?

For an SSD, it's very fast, but that's 5.5GB per second. It's still only 1% the speed of the RAM, and far too slow to matter in the context of a single frame. With the PS5, data can be pulled in twice as quickly from the SSD and written onto RAM, but those speeds are mostly relevant for loading times. That means that looking at the raw specs of both consoles, the XSX will have "better gwafix".

It's 2020, are people just now finding out about SSDs?

Source: my dumb asss

You don't need parallel world. If you were here since gen 7 time you would have seem this flip several times.

It isn't even a factor of favoring faster SSD over faster CPU/GPU (except that most devs have been much more vocal about the SSD than the small difference in the CPU/GPU).

Your source to conclusion matches, but if you want better source listen to all devs, CGI, etc.

I don’t know if devs are really that much better of a source.  Everybody has an agenda and a lot of devs have more reason to have an agenda than most.  They actually have money at stake.  

Personally, I don’t expect a noticeable difference between the two.  Just like this gen when there was a much bigger gap, the differences are minor at best and if you weren’t running the versions side by side and pausing and zooming in, you would have a hard time telling them apart.

Next gen isn’t going to come down to the specs.  It’s going to come down to the games.  



eva01beserk on 09 June 2020
shikamaru317 said:
eva01beserk said:

Does that common denominator factor only applies to SSD's?

No, it applies to other aspects as well. Cross-gen games will be held back by the slow Jaguar CPU's of Xbox One and base PS4, as well as their weaker GPU's. Once support for last gen consoles gets dropped, lowest common denominator in terms of GPU would become the Xbox Series S. Though, the theory is that Series S GPU shouldn't really hold back next-gen development too much, since the GPU specs should be high enough for developers to just reduce the resolution on Series S, with other aspects of graphics not being affected much. 

Why would you need to reduce the resolution for the series s? dint you claim that would be the target? Then it should be the series x that gets upscale right? 



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

eva01beserk on 09 June 2020
gergroy said:
DonFerrari said:

You don't need parallel world. If you were here since gen 7 time you would have seem this flip several times.

It isn't even a factor of favoring faster SSD over faster CPU/GPU (except that most devs have been much more vocal about the SSD than the small difference in the CPU/GPU).

Your source to conclusion matches, but if you want better source listen to all devs, CGI, etc.

I don’t know if devs are really that much better of a source.  Everybody has an agenda and a lot of devs have more reason to have an agenda than most.  They actually have money at stake.  

Personally, I don’t expect a noticeable difference between the two.  Just like this gen when there was a much bigger gap, the differences are minor at best and if you weren’t running the versions side by side and pausing and zooming in, you would have a hard time telling them apart.

Next gen isn’t going to come down to the specs.  It’s going to come down to the games.  

no need to wait until next gen, I would say this gen was decided by the games. Just MS fans who want to find any little excuse just to not admit the xbox ine up has been underwhelming for the last 10 years.



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

DonFerrari on 09 June 2020
gergroy said:
DonFerrari said:

You don't need parallel world. If you were here since gen 7 time you would have seem this flip several times.

It isn't even a factor of favoring faster SSD over faster CPU/GPU (except that most devs have been much more vocal about the SSD than the small difference in the CPU/GPU).

Your source to conclusion matches, but if you want better source listen to all devs, CGI, etc.

I don’t know if devs are really that much better of a source.  Everybody has an agenda and a lot of devs have more reason to have an agenda than most.  They actually have money at stake.  

Personally, I don’t expect a noticeable difference between the two.  Just like this gen when there was a much bigger gap, the differences are minor at best and if you weren’t running the versions side by side and pausing and zooming in, you would have a hard time telling them apart.

Next gen isn’t going to come down to the specs.  It’s going to come down to the games.  

When it is most devs and they are multiplatform developers they really don`t have a reason to gives more props to SSD on PS5 than GPU on XSX, they do because that is what they believe is important as game devs. On the other hand you have a very small number of devs saying the SSD is pointless.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

kirby007 on 09 June 2020
eva01beserk said:
gergroy said:

I don’t know if devs are really that much better of a source.  Everybody has an agenda and a lot of devs have more reason to have an agenda than most.  They actually have money at stake.  

Personally, I don’t expect a noticeable difference between the two.  Just like this gen when there was a much bigger gap, the differences are minor at best and if you weren’t running the versions side by side and pausing and zooming in, you would have a hard time telling them apart.

Next gen isn’t going to come down to the specs.  It’s going to come down to the games.  

no need to wait until next gen, I would say this gen was decided by the games. Just MS fans who want to find any little excuse just to not admit the xbox ine up has been underwhelming for the last 10 years.

Quite sure MS had the better multiplayer games after nintendo ofc



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