I just find it irrelevant anyway. A person using a counterfeit bill might not even know about it. Is an arrest even necessary? And even if it was, it all went wrong from there. It was completely wrong no matter what the initial crime was.

edit. Apparently Floyd had fentalyn and metamphetamine in his system so that could've played a part in reason he was arrested. Doesn't change the fact it went wrong by these officers.

I think a lot of people have reduced their sympathy for black people when they see that riot.
Or, there were a lot of people who instigated it to think so.
At least in Japan.

Isn't Japan one of the least diverse nation on the planet?

What does that have to do with what I wrote?
Even if there is no racial diversity in Japanese society, there should be diversity in the way of thinking.

Well they have no experience in diversity so they can't really judge USA.  Once I see Japanese and Chinese hugging it out then maybe I might take their considerations more serious.  Japanese also treat their low wage foreign workers that work in Japan like subhumans.  In my opinion they have no room to talk

Thanks for the links. These numbers confirm my initial quote of 49% reported by FBI for 2015, since it is 53% of murders committed by African Americans if you exclude the unknowns, the overall picture does not change. The sample is big enough anyway.

You are right for the homicide chart, it is victims instead of murders! It still helps us to find out who kills who. If half the murders are committed by African Americans and they are also the most victims by far, then it seems they kill each other a lot. Pretty ironic for the BLM movement... : /

Oh what a discovery, it's google and wikipedia yes, time optimization you know? I don't wanna waste ages to reach the same statistics. I never did a deep research/analysis on the matter, nor did I claim to. I suggested a possible explanation, and since I am not American I'm looking for other opinions in order to better understand what's going on and shape mine. That's why my first line on the thread was "any comments on this chart?".

And yes I had an impression of how black crime rates are higher, judging from trending music videos and the rappers that ended up in jail...

"You're wrong on pretty much every count." and you are always right O.K.

And if crime figures that relate police and black people do not relate to the conversation by you, then what does? If you have something that relates more then share it.

Of course there are many factors that relate to the numbers we have, which you already mentioned and I agree, but the overall picture is too obvious to be altered by those. When a 13% of the population does 50% of the murders and has an equal prison population with the 72%, it is clear that in US there is a big issue with crime from African Americans and police is obviously handling it very very badly.



I am adding previous figures posted for the sake of completion. Maybe someone has something else and can shine some light.

Thanks for sharing! That explains a lot. 

Looks like there are huge differences between cities, and that makes the problem more evident. Racism must play a role in cities where crime rates are low but police killings high. At least it is easier to tackle the problem it if they start from specific cities.

Don't you think that perception, expectations and fear originate from African Americans committing more crimes, especially murders in the long term? I mean, if 50% of the murders traditionally come from the African Americans 13% minority, wouldn't the policemen be more scared for their lives and more biased, therefore more ready and less hesitating to kill someone if he is black?

Would the numbers be as bad if crime rates from African Americans were to decrease to average in the next 5-10 years or so?

I don't know how Japan treats low wage foreign workers, however a brother of a friend of ours has been living in Japan for decades. He married a Japanese woman and has two kids, yet stll experiences xenophobia against him. When the pandemic started some people were shouting at him to get out and go home while he was just on the way to work like everyone else. He is formerly Canadian. He loves the country (obviously) but does get confronted with xenophobia now and then.

Anyway that has nothing to do with this topic. However never really dealing with diversity and latent racism while growing up does make you less capable to understand the long ongoing situation. I grew up in the Netherlands with plenty of stereo types about Poles mainly (migrant workers), later refugees before it turned onto Muslims in general. My grandfather, great man, but his ideas about black people were typical for his generation. There was a lot of friction between him and my mother and her family (She was born in Indonesia). It's easy to slip into "Oh they probably did something wrong, deserved it" which is at the heart of the problems in the USA. The initial mindset while going into a confrontation together with fear.

Racism isn't just openly spewing hatred against other races. It can be very subtle and plenty people don't even realize their prejudice, be it against black people, religion or police. Do you treat your family members the same as any random stranger? The police should and its not easy.

The correlation they found is between segregation in cities and police brutality, not between crime rates and police brutality.

It's policing 'from outside' that seems to cause the main friction. The mindset going into an area perceived as dangerous, whether it be from xenophobia or higher crime rates in poverty stricken areas.

The perception, expectations and fear originate from painting black men as the bad guy for as long as I can remember. Who did you always see running from police in those cop shows "what you gonna do when they come for you" Cops. It's always the black guy who did it.


Do you have any source to suggest that Black people shoot at police more than other races?

All I can find is stats about murder victims
https://www.statista.com/statistics/251877/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-race-ethnicity-and-gender/
7400 Black victims vs 6000 white victims in 2019

Additional information on black/African American murder victims in the United States

According to male deaths by firearm-related injuries by ethnicity, the amount of black victims has fallen by over half since 1970 in proportion to the population. While this improvement has been welcomed, black males remained twice as likely to be the victim of a gun related death compared with white males.

This inequality has lead to a rise in political action and demonstration around what is perceived as inaction or ignorance over the issue by government and wider society. The high profile death of Trayvon Martin in Florida followed by the deaths at the hand of police Freddie Gray and Michael Brown served as the catalyst for such movements.
The wider issue of violence beyond murder also appears to have systemic correlations. The percentage of violent crime victims with socio-emotional problems by race demonstrates that black Americans experienced socio-emotional issues at a greater rate. Moreover, the issue of a higher exposure to violence for black Americans stretches to the schooling system where 8.4 percent of black children were threatened or injured with a weapon in 2013.

The issue starts from early age, on both sides.

"Thanks for the links. These numbers confirm my initial quote of 49% reported by FBI for 2015, since it is 53% of murders committed by African Americans if you exclude the unknowns, the overall picture does not change. The sample is big enough anyway."

So... the number you posted 49%.  Is actually not reported anywhere by the FBI... but if we ignore a huge chunk of the data it would be 53%... So the number you reported, which was not 53%, is actually right..? 

If you ignore the "unknown" category, you're limiting it to black and white which ignores huge categories of people.  Mixed race, hispanics who are non-black and not white etc. And you can't just ignore a third of the data set. A sample doesn't simply have to be large, it has to be representative, and if you just throw out 1/3 of the data, it might not be. You'd have to know a lot more about why the unknown category is unknown before you can alter the data like that. And of course, we're still nowhere near the 6:1 ratio of crime that you're claiming.  

Honestly, where did the 49% figure come from?

"You are right for the homicide chart, it is victims instead of murders! It still helps us to find out who kills who. If half the murders are committed by African Americans and they are also the most victims by far, then it seems they kill each other a lot. Pretty ironic for the BLM movement... : /"

You still don't seem to know what this chart actually shows.  It doesn't show how often the races are victims of homicide, it shows the prevalence of homicide as a cause of death in that race vs other potential causes of death, specifically among a narrow age range.  That's a completely different statistic.

In the graph you posted the bar for black people is 4x that for white people.  In actuality, they are victims about 1.2 times as often. I'd hardly say they're the most victims "by far".  You could have actually looked up the actual data really easily.

"Oh what a discovery, it's google and wikipedia yes, time optimization you know? I don't wanna waste ages to reach the same statistics. I never did a deep research/analysis on the matter, nor did I claim to. I suggested a possible explanation, and since I am not American I'm looking for other opinions in order to better understand what's going on and shape mine. That's why my first line on the thread was "any comments on this chart?"

Asking for comments does not mean you are actually looking into the issue.  It depends on how open you actually are to changing your position. I'm not saying that's what's going on here, but posting something inflammatory and saying "Golly gee, what do you guys think about this" is a pretty common form of trolling.

It took me literally less than a minute to google "FBI murder statistics".  I'm not expecting a thesis here, but why use decade old data from an unreliable source when recent data from official sources is readily available? The amount of effort you put into gathering the information makes me question how much you care about coming to a reasonable conclusion.

And yes I had an impression of how black crime rates are higher, judging from trending music videos and the rappers that ended up in jail...

Seriously? Music videos and rappers are evidence? Should I assume Christians have a higher rate of pedophilia because of all the Catholic priests that are pedophiles? If this is how you're making judgments, your epistemology is fundamentally flawed.

And if crime figures that relate police and black people do not relate to the conversation by you, then what does? If you have something that relates more then share it.

So... you don't have an explanation then of why the number of murders is relevant to the subject of police brutality? I honestly don't see why the murder rate would justify that.  I didn't make a claim, so I have nothing to bring up. You're the one who brought it up dude, it's your job to connect the dots.

Of course there are many factors that relate to the numbers we have, which you already mentioned and I agree, but the overall picture is too obvious to be altered by those. When a 13% of the population does 50% of the murders and has an equal prison population with the 72%, it is clear that in US there is a big issue with crime from African Americans and police is obviously handling it very very badly.

Yeah, there's a problem with crime and African Americans, either with enforcement or actually committing crimes... And this justifies the rate of cop killings you posted because..?

"You're wrong on pretty much every count." and you are always right O.K.

Doesn't change the fact that what you said was demonstrably wrong.  If I said something wrong, then feel free to point it out so I can adjust my position accordingly.