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Forums - Sony Discussion - Sony DMCA's themselves on Twitter

DonFerrari said:
sales2099 said:

The thing is it’s not confidential anymore. It’s out there and has been for some time now. This isn’t a classified government document...it’s a plot of a video game. People talked about Star Wars spoilers and I don’t recall Disney going about things the way Sony is.

Sure I can get behind silencing videos and tweets or whatever that actively post spoiler content. But memes, reactions, and non contextual discussions...that’s wrong. 

It is confidential and under IP protection. So people preying and festering on the leak know they are in the wrong and are no angels that need protection.

Second paragraph is probably you didn't see that there is plausibility that several of the DMCA claims were automatically by bot monitoring or algorithm since they wouldn't really be able to manually search and analysis every single one. So that would end up on how tweeter reacted to Sony demand.

Think Jweibcoms recent comment says it best. It’s an abuse of power no matter how you slice it. People who have no affiliation to Sony talking about what they saw on the internet shouldn’t be a nail to Sony’s hammer. 

As for your comment on the algorithms, I can understand the process but ultimately it doesn’t excuse them. Going “scorched earth” and obliterating anything that can be interpreted as a spoiler is a concerning precedent. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

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drkohler said:
JWeinCom said:

Yeah, kind of.  

I'm not an expert on this kind of law, but I'm 99% sure kind of thing would fall under the category of fair use. 

Too bad but you picked the 1%

Fair use does NOT apply to unpublished work. There's at least two Supreme Court Decisions nailing that.

Do you recall Disney reacting like this when spoilers of Rise of Skywalker leaked? (The answer is no) 

Its not just discussing unpublished work, it’s also people just talking about their reactions to it without context and without saying spoilers. And that does NOT fall under the 1%. 

Edit: in essence it boils down to Sony limiting negative word of mouth because millions of lost revenue is on the line. However by being this aggressive they are only ensuring negative word of mouth both online and in person. People with any belief in checking corporate abuse will notice this. 

Last edited by sales2099 - on 27 May 2020

Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

drkohler said:
JWeinCom said:

Yeah, kind of.  

I'm not an expert on this kind of law, but I'm 99% sure kind of thing would fall under the category of fair use. 

Too bad but you picked the 1%

Fair use does NOT apply to unpublished work. There's at least two Supreme Court Decisions nailing that.

Interesting.  What cases are those?



JWeinCom said:
DonFerrari said:

Not the same, it is a type of person but not the same rights as natural person, at least in Brazil.

I agree Sony have overreacted and it seems like Tweeter algorythm is also at fault since Sony wouldn't report itself. So perhaps what was a harsh action from Sony fucked up the algorythm and it became something else.

Do you have many channels you like that prey on confidential information and trying to release it to everyone for no good reason? It is something to break the law to protect the law (like when you disclose some confidential information regarding a crime being commited), but when you do it for clicks it isn't good.

Property is property, and freedom of speech isn't unlimited as well. If you have access to confidential material you can't claim freedom of speech to divulge it.

Sure Sony is aggressive on it, but seeing their own tweet was targeted it certainly have something to do with Tweeter algorythm being overzealous to avoid any possible Sony retaliation on not taking action on a subpuena.

I'm not an expert on the differences between a corporation and an individual, so I can't really comment on that. 

The thing is that it is not against the law to tell secrets.  It may be a violation of a contract if someone has specifically agreed not to reveal certain information.  But, if they reveal that information to a third party, that third party is not constrained because they had no agreement.  Sony should absolutely sue the fuck out of whoever originally leaked the material (assuming they were under an agreement not to) but they have no right to DMCA anyone else.

Ultimately, Sony's only reasonable objection to the information they're DMCAing is that they don't want people to talk about it, and that's an extremely dangerous precedent.  

Copyright infringment is against the law, it isn't a secret. And even if it was personal secret depending on the case it is also a crime to disclose it, could be considered breach of privacy in the least even if you go by "hearsay".

sales2099 said:
drkohler said:

Too bad but you picked the 1%

Fair use does NOT apply to unpublished work. There's at least two Supreme Court Decisions nailing that.

Do you recall Disney reacting like this when spoilers of Rise of Skywalker leaked? (The answer is no) 

Its not just discussing unpublished work, it’s also people just talking about their reactions to it without context and without saying spoilers. And that does NOT fall under the 1%. 

Edit: in essence it boils down to Sony limiting negative word of mouth because millions of lost revenue is on the line. However by being this aggressive they are only ensuring negative word of mouth both online and in person. People with any belief in checking corporate abuse will notice this. 

Disney not doing it doesn't mean no one can't, shouldn't or the law isn't that way.

Nintendo is the only one that pressured to take down let's play type of video (and they don't configure fair use, since they show the complete game and is the main focus and product, the voice of the streamer is just a small addition), the fact that Sony nor MS does it doesn't mean Nintendo isn't on their legal right to do. But yes for the released games Nintendo banning everyone except their subs to do yt is over reaction, still legal right.

The review embargo ends 1 week before the game releases, did you know it? So it isn't about limiting negative word of mouth, it is about protecting from leaks, spoilers and imprecise portrayal of their product, and sure protect their money that is their right. Again the creator of something have more right to make money of it than any other part have right to make money of it.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:

sales2099 said:

Do you recall Disney reacting like this when spoilers of Rise of Skywalker leaked? (The answer is no) 

Its not just discussing unpublished work, it’s also people just talking about their reactions to it without context and without saying spoilers. And that does NOT fall under the 1%. 

Edit: in essence it boils down to Sony limiting negative word of mouth because millions of lost revenue is on the line. However by being this aggressive they are only ensuring negative word of mouth both online and in person. People with any belief in checking corporate abuse will notice this. 

Disney not doing it doesn't mean no one can't, shouldn't or the law isn't that way.

Nintendo is the only one that pressured to take down let's play type of video (and they don't configure fair use, since they show the complete game and is the main focus and product, the voice of the streamer is just a small addition), the fact that Sony nor MS does it doesn't mean Nintendo isn't on their legal right to do. But yes for the released games Nintendo banning everyone except their subs to do yt is over reaction, still legal right.

The review embargo ends 1 week before the game releases, did you know it? So it isn't about limiting negative word of mouth, it is about protecting from leaks, spoilers and imprecise portrayal of their product, and sure protect their money that is their right. Again the creator of something have more right to make money of it than any other part have right to make money of it.

To be fair the leaks are real. So talking about them isn’t an imprecise portrayal. It may lack the full picture of the events leading up to leaked scenes but the scenes are real nonetheless. 

Again I can’t stress enough how wrong it is to blanket ban everything especially non spoiler reactions and non context discussions. It’s wrong plain and simple. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

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sales2099 said:
DonFerrari said:

Disney not doing it doesn't mean no one can't, shouldn't or the law isn't that way.

Nintendo is the only one that pressured to take down let's play type of video (and they don't configure fair use, since they show the complete game and is the main focus and product, the voice of the streamer is just a small addition), the fact that Sony nor MS does it doesn't mean Nintendo isn't on their legal right to do. But yes for the released games Nintendo banning everyone except their subs to do yt is over reaction, still legal right.

The review embargo ends 1 week before the game releases, did you know it? So it isn't about limiting negative word of mouth, it is about protecting from leaks, spoilers and imprecise portrayal of their product, and sure protect their money that is their right. Again the creator of something have more right to make money of it than any other part have right to make money of it.

To be fair the leaks are real. So talking about them isn’t an imprecise portrayal. It may lack the full picture of the events leading up to leaked scenes but the scenes are real nonetheless. 

Again I can’t stress enough how wrong it is to blanket ban everything especially non spoiler reactions and non context discussions. It’s wrong plain and simple. 

About anything you pick up and cut a slice and portray can likely be very imprecise and misleading.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Ian Miles Cheong is one of those youtubers that claims to be fighting against social justice warriors and constantly talks shit about others while being a piece of shit himself,he is in the social circles of people like keemstar/dramaalert that also feeds on others misery not caring about truths.
If he is a journalist,we just all are journalists.

Tweet of him:

''I don’t like talking about this but reporting a crime isn’t swatting. Warski often bragged to me about the drugs and guns that he had in his apartment and in my anger towards him, I filed a report with a tip line to report his criminal activities. I made no attempt to injure him.''

After working with the guy and all the time knowing that,out of spite he did this.

Last edited by Immersiveunreality - on 27 May 2020

SpokenTruth said:
DonFerrari said:

1). It is confidential and 2). under IP protection. So people preying and festering on the leak know they are in the wrong and are no angels that need protection.

1). Confidentiality is only relevant when you've signed a Non-Disclosure Agreement.

2). IP Protection is only relevant when one entity explicitly utilizes the IP of another for profit without consent. Commentary of an IP is not considered usage of said IP.

drkohler said:

Too bad but you picked the 1%

Fair use does NOT apply to unpublished work. There's at least two Supreme Court Decisions nailing that.

Any photos or videos published for marketing purposes falls under Fair Use for they are published materials.

DonFerrari said:

1). Copyright infringment is against the law, it isn't a secret. And even if it was personal secret depending on the case it is also a crime to disclose it, 2). could be considered breach of privacy in the least even if you go by "hearsay".

1). Nothing I've seen constitutes as copyright infringement. Otherwise you're infringing on copyright every time you say or write Sony, Naughty Dog, The Last of US, etc...

2). This is only valid if the leaker was under a Non-Disclosure Agreement with Sony or ND and not valid for anyone after the fact.

Bold: Yes and no,ultimately the federal court can decide if something is fair use or not by using kinda tranformative rules.

These are the four main rules:

  • the purpose and character of your use
  • the nature of the copyrighted work
  • the amount and substantiality of the portion taken, and
  • the effect of the use upon the potential market.

All of these rules are debatable depending on the side/position using them and that is what makes this all a bit tricky.



Otter said:
NobleTeam360 said:

"Protect your fans and your art as aggressively as possible" I guess you mean protect your brand image and money source as aggressively as possible. 

Nonsense

1. Sales aren't going to be majorly effected because of plot spoilers. It's a 30hr video game.
2. How exactly is this protecting their brand image? The contents of the game will be free for all to discuss, hate on, love etc when its released.

Why is it so hard for some of you to understand that this 20m selling franchise has fans who would rather not have the ending spoiled for them and the people who spent 5 years of their life working on this project would rather not have a bunch of idiots on the internet ruin it for unsuspecting fans.

Yes, good guy sony is out there fighting the good fight to avert our eyes from potential leaks/spoilers...... so much so they're even taking down their own social media attempt at promoting their game  



NobleTeam360 said:
Otter said:

Nonsense

1. Sales aren't going to be majorly effected because of plot spoilers. It's a 30hr video game.
2. How exactly is this protecting their brand image? The contents of the game will be free for all to discuss, hate on, love etc when its released.

Why is it so hard for some of you to understand that this 20m selling franchise has fans who would rather not have the ending spoiled for them and the people who spent 5 years of their life working on this project would rather not have a bunch of idiots on the internet ruin it for unsuspecting fans.

Yes, good guy sony is out there fighting the good fight to avert our eyes from potential leaks/spoilers...... so much so they're even taking down their own social media attempt at promoting their game  

In order to not lose profit and that is understandable.