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Forums - Sony Discussion - Sony DMCA's themselves on Twitter

DonFerrari said:
sales2099 said:

People know me here, but that ain’t right. You can’t just silence the internet (and ruin channels that rely on videos for personal revenue) because people are taking about spoilers. I get it, you wanna protect your potential money but this is an abuse. People are allowed to talk about what they want and make memes as they see for so long as it isn’t politically controversial.

ND showing their true colours lately with all this news with crunch culture and massive employee exodus in last 4 years. 

So the right to spoil and damage other property for own gain is bigger than the right to protect oneself?

Yeah, kind of.  

I'm not an expert on this kind of law, but I'm 99% sure kind of thing would fall under the category of fair use.  While I sometimes wish there were, I'm pretty sure that there's no special rule that allows you to DMCA something because it has spoilers in it.  You're also free to criticize and generally to use images from the material in your criticism.

Sony is well within their rights to control things on their channels, and Twitter is within their rights to have a policy against certain things.  But I'm pretty sure this is going far beyond what the DMCA actually allows.  



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JWeinCom said:
DonFerrari said:

So the right to spoil and damage other property for own gain is bigger than the right to protect oneself?

Yeah, kind of.  

I'm not an expert on this kind of law, but I'm 99% sure kind of thing would fall under the category of fair use.  While I sometimes wish there were, I'm pretty sure that there's no special rule that allows you to DMCA something because it has spoilers in it.  You're also free to criticize and generally to use images from the material in your criticism.

Sony is well within their rights to control things on their channels, and Twitter is within their rights to have a policy against certain things.  But I'm pretty sure this is going far beyond what the DMCA actually allows.  

I wasn't talking on the law side, because yes individual rights usually are above corporate rights. Usually only when public safety is at risk it does surpass individual right.

I was asking on his stance over spoilers and bad journalist festering on something that would damage a property and even a lot of people enjoyment of something against a company trying to protect their property and enjoyment of the fans.

We know that nowadays to many "journalists" don't behave like that nor do investigative journalism, the just gossip and clickbait to often to get an easier money. For those I have 0 respect (but yes they have the right to get their food), now journalist that do a serious job investigating corruption, corporate law breaking, etc those deserve every protection to do their job the best they can.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
JWeinCom said:

Yeah, kind of.  

I'm not an expert on this kind of law, but I'm 99% sure kind of thing would fall under the category of fair use.  While I sometimes wish there were, I'm pretty sure that there's no special rule that allows you to DMCA something because it has spoilers in it.  You're also free to criticize and generally to use images from the material in your criticism.

Sony is well within their rights to control things on their channels, and Twitter is within their rights to have a policy against certain things.  But I'm pretty sure this is going far beyond what the DMCA actually allows.  

I wasn't talking on the law side, because yes individual rights usually are above corporate rights. Usually only when public safety is at risk it does surpass individual right.

I was asking on his stance over spoilers and bad journalist festering on something that would damage a property and even a lot of people enjoyment of something against a company trying to protect their property and enjoyment of the fans.

We know that nowadays to many "journalists" don't behave like that nor do investigative journalism, the just gossip and clickbait to often to get an easier money. For those I have 0 respect (but yes they have the right to get their food), now journalist that do a serious job investigating corruption, corporate law breaking, etc those deserve every protection to do their job the best they can.

Corporations are actually treated as people legally :-/  Fucking citizens united.  But it's not really about corporations vs people.

I don't like the way the journalists and a lot of the fans have behaved, and I've expressed that.  But I'd say that Sony's actions are far more problematic here.  They are inappropriately using a law designed to help in legitimate cases of copyright violation to shut down people who are saying things they don't like, many of whom are admittedly assholes.  

I 100% agree with Sony in this case that it would be better if all of those posts were gone.  But, there are many youtube channels and such that I enjoy a lot that could be completely shut down by the same rationale.  Allowing people the freedom to express themselves and criticize is more important than preventing spoilers, even if that means some assholes are allowed to get through.



DonFerrari said:
sales2099 said:

People know me here, but that ain’t right. You can’t just silence the internet (and ruin channels that rely on videos for personal revenue) because people are taking about spoilers. I get it, you wanna protect your potential money but this is an abuse. People are allowed to talk about what they want and make memes as they see for so long as it isn’t politically controversial.

ND showing their true colours lately with all this news with crunch culture and massive employee exodus in last 4 years. 

So the right to spoil and damage other property for own gain is bigger than the right to protect oneself?

Free speech is free speech. Gaming beliefs aside that’s something I feel very strongly about. You shouldn’t abuse power to silence the internet because a leak happened under your watch. It’s not silencing people outright discussing spoilers, it’s also people that are talking about the spoilers without context (basically reactions without actual spoilers). Sony going about this very aggressively and even its apologists must recognize that. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

Otter said:

I support them all the way. Protect your fans and your art as aggressively as possible and its kind of unprecedented situation which is why they're resorting to this system. I've never had to be afraid to read the comments under a tweet in fear that they were going to ruin a game, or film for me but somehow Naught Dog has the worst trolls following them. I imagine it may be for political reasons, in any case things have already been spoiled for me because I decided to read IGNs twitter replies to an Assassins Creed article....

Thats nonsense. They're literally taking down peoples content for talking about the game. Bo gameplay, or anything just commentary. 



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JWeinCom said:
DonFerrari said:

I wasn't talking on the law side, because yes individual rights usually are above corporate rights. Usually only when public safety is at risk it does surpass individual right.

I was asking on his stance over spoilers and bad journalist festering on something that would damage a property and even a lot of people enjoyment of something against a company trying to protect their property and enjoyment of the fans.

We know that nowadays to many "journalists" don't behave like that nor do investigative journalism, the just gossip and clickbait to often to get an easier money. For those I have 0 respect (but yes they have the right to get their food), now journalist that do a serious job investigating corruption, corporate law breaking, etc those deserve every protection to do their job the best they can.

Corporations are actually treated as people legally :-/  Fucking citizens united.  But it's not really about corporations vs people.

I don't like the way the journalists and a lot of the fans have behaved, and I've expressed that.  But I'd say that Sony's actions are far more problematic here.  They are inappropriately using a law designed to help in legitimate cases of copyright violation to shut down people who are saying things they don't like, many of whom are admittedly assholes.  

I 100% agree with Sony in this case that it would be better if all of those posts were gone.  But, there are many youtube channels and such that I enjoy a lot that could be completely shut down by the same rationale.  Allowing people the freedom to express themselves and criticize is more important than preventing spoilers, even if that means some assholes are allowed to get through.

Not the same, it is a type of person but not the same rights as natural person, at least in Brazil.

I agree Sony have overreacted and it seems like Tweeter algorythm is also at fault since Sony wouldn't report itself. So perhaps what was a harsh action from Sony fucked up the algorythm and it became something else.

Do you have many channels you like that prey on confidential information and trying to release it to everyone for no good reason? It is something to break the law to protect the law (like when you disclose some confidential information regarding a crime being commited), but when you do it for clicks it isn't good.

sales2099 said:
DonFerrari said:

So the right to spoil and damage other property for own gain is bigger than the right to protect oneself?

Free speech is free speech. Gaming beliefs aside that’s something I feel very strongly about. You shouldn’t abuse power to silence the internet because a leak happened under your watch. It’s not silencing people outright discussing spoilers, it’s also people that are talking about the spoilers without context (basically reactions without actual spoilers). Sony going about this very aggressively and even its apologists must recognize that. 

Property is property, and freedom of speech isn't unlimited as well. If you have access to confidential material you can't claim freedom of speech to divulge it.

Sure Sony is aggressive on it, but seeing their own tweet was targeted it certainly have something to do with Tweeter algorythm being overzealous to avoid any possible Sony retaliation on not taking action on a subpuena.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

sales2099 said:

Free speech is free speech. Gaming beliefs aside that’s something I feel very strongly about. You shouldn’t abuse power to silence the internet because a leak happened under your watch. It’s not silencing people outright discussing spoilers, it’s also people that are talking about the spoilers without context (basically reactions without actual spoilers). Sony going about this very aggressively and even its apologists must recognize that. 

Property is property, and freedom of speech isn't unlimited as well. If you have access to confidential material you can't claim freedom of speech to divulge it.

Sure Sony is aggressive on it, but seeing their own tweet was targeted it certainly have something to do with Tweeter algorythm being overzealous to avoid any possible Sony retaliation on not taking action on a subpuena.

The thing is it’s not confidential anymore. It’s out there and has been for some time now. This isn’t a classified government document...it’s a plot of a video game. People talked about Star Wars spoilers and I don’t recall Disney going about things the way Sony is.

Sure I can get behind silencing videos and tweets or whatever that actively post spoiler content. But memes, reactions, and non contextual discussions...that’s wrong. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

sales2099 said:

Property is property, and freedom of speech isn't unlimited as well. If you have access to confidential material you can't claim freedom of speech to divulge it.

Sure Sony is aggressive on it, but seeing their own tweet was targeted it certainly have something to do with Tweeter algorythm being overzealous to avoid any possible Sony retaliation on not taking action on a subpuena.

The thing is it’s not confidential anymore. It’s out there and has been for some time now. This isn’t a classified government document...it’s a plot of a video game. People talked about Star Wars spoilers and I don’t recall Disney going about things the way Sony is.

Sure I can get behind silencing videos and tweets or whatever that actively post spoiler content. But memes, reactions, and non contextual discussions...that’s wrong. 

It is confidential and under IP protection. So people preying and festering on the leak know they are in the wrong and are no angels that need protection.

Second paragraph is probably you didn't see that there is plausibility that several of the DMCA claims were automatically by bot monitoring or algorithm since they wouldn't really be able to manually search and analysis every single one. So that would end up on how tweeter reacted to Sony demand.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
JWeinCom said:

Corporations are actually treated as people legally :-/  Fucking citizens united.  But it's not really about corporations vs people.

I don't like the way the journalists and a lot of the fans have behaved, and I've expressed that.  But I'd say that Sony's actions are far more problematic here.  They are inappropriately using a law designed to help in legitimate cases of copyright violation to shut down people who are saying things they don't like, many of whom are admittedly assholes.  

I 100% agree with Sony in this case that it would be better if all of those posts were gone.  But, there are many youtube channels and such that I enjoy a lot that could be completely shut down by the same rationale.  Allowing people the freedom to express themselves and criticize is more important than preventing spoilers, even if that means some assholes are allowed to get through.

Not the same, it is a type of person but not the same rights as natural person, at least in Brazil.

I agree Sony have overreacted and it seems like Tweeter algorythm is also at fault since Sony wouldn't report itself. So perhaps what was a harsh action from Sony fucked up the algorythm and it became something else.

Do you have many channels you like that prey on confidential information and trying to release it to everyone for no good reason? It is something to break the law to protect the law (like when you disclose some confidential information regarding a crime being commited), but when you do it for clicks it isn't good.

sales2099 said:

Free speech is free speech. Gaming beliefs aside that’s something I feel very strongly about. You shouldn’t abuse power to silence the internet because a leak happened under your watch. It’s not silencing people outright discussing spoilers, it’s also people that are talking about the spoilers without context (basically reactions without actual spoilers). Sony going about this very aggressively and even its apologists must recognize that. 

Property is property, and freedom of speech isn't unlimited as well. If you have access to confidential material you can't claim freedom of speech to divulge it.

Sure Sony is aggressive on it, but seeing their own tweet was targeted it certainly have something to do with Tweeter algorythm being overzealous to avoid any possible Sony retaliation on not taking action on a subpuena.

I'm not an expert on the differences between a corporation and an individual, so I can't really comment on that. 

The thing is that it is not against the law to tell secrets.  It may be a violation of a contract if someone has specifically agreed not to reveal certain information.  But, if they reveal that information to a third party, that third party is not constrained because they had no agreement.  Sony should absolutely sue the fuck out of whoever originally leaked the material (assuming they were under an agreement not to) but they have no right to DMCA anyone else.

Ultimately, Sony's only reasonable objection to the information they're DMCAing is that they don't want people to talk about it, and that's an extremely dangerous precedent.  



JWeinCom said:

Yeah, kind of.  

I'm not an expert on this kind of law, but I'm 99% sure kind of thing would fall under the category of fair use. 

Too bad but you picked the 1%

Fair use does NOT apply to unpublished work. There's at least two Supreme Court Decisions nailing that.