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Forums - Sony Discussion - Unreal Engine 5 Announced + PS5 Demo

setsunatenshi said:
Machiavellian said:

Actually I am not missing the point at all.  The presenter interpretations stated it can run just fine without the PS5 GOD tier SSD.  As I asked earlier, are we questioning the statement made by the presenter who works for Epic or just the playback of the demo.

As to your second paragraph, that tweet from Tim only seem to point to the presentation of the demo shone not the words from the presenter translations.  There isn't enough info in that tweet to infer anything beyond that.  

I actually doubt the I/O will be a big problem for PCs because an increase in RAM would be a better solution.  THe key for consoles is that they have limited ram, no expandability and thus fixed which means they are more dependent on SDD solution then a PC probably 3 years from now.

Maybe you should look at the original presentation once again and hear it straight from the man himself, the engine is scalable across multiple platforms, including mobiles. So obviously, it will run "just fine", but what just fine means is what's being discussed here. Instead of streaming 8k textures, would 4k be fine? would 2k be fine? Would we offset the lower resolution with DLSS? Concessions will be made to run best at whatever available hardware you have.

I think it's pretty disingenuous to assume throwing more RAM would be a good solution to the problem. PCs are not limited necessarily by costs, so you'll always have the option to brute force your way out of most issues. There's no way you'll have all the in game assets stored on RAM, especially when we're talking big open world games available to use at any time, especially when these assets are extremely high quality (like the ones the demo was pulling). A game that would allow some sort of high speed moving through the game world would still need to have very fast I/O to populate the world without loading times and pop-in.

Most times the simplest answer is just the correct one, some games will require a mandatory high speed drive, otherwise they just won't be playable, period (or playable with a massive performance hit).

We are circling around 2 different subjects.  First, I asked if the presenter from China was wrong or the interpretation was incorrect.  It's not that he just ran a video of the PS5 demo, he made claims that a current laptop performance with a standard SSD at this time runs the same demo better not just fine. He stated no requirement for an SSD with the I/O of the PS5 to produce the results from that demo.  As I stated, people were dismissing those comments and I was wondering why. If the presenter is legit, then why are we dismissing what he says is his experience.

To your second paragraph, the nature of the PC is that it will always evolve, and 3 things are constantly in flux, CPU/GPU and RAM.  While a fast SSD is definitely very important for a console, its just one system in many that will be upgraded to far surpass consoles fixed hardware on the PC end.  What you are not getting is that by the time the PS5 release it still will not be that big of a deal for PC gamers to exceed on all fronts what the console does at launch.  Not only that, having as fast of a SSD probably is not as important on the PC end 2 to 3 years from now because all 3, CPU/GPU and Ram make the PC not so dependent on one system which is the SSD.  The PC will always have the ability to brute force its way pass console, nothing has changed on this front.



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I thought the UE5 demo was 4K but it was 1440P! That's absolutely insane. SSM, Guerrilla Games, PD & ND are all likely to surpass the graphical fidelity of UE5 which is crazy to even think about. And it didn't even use RT for that incredible lighting!

The flying portion, including the LOD, no lag, no pop ins, really shows the potential of the SSD. Racing games, or traversal in general, is going to become a lot faster. Can you imagine the web slinging in Spiderman 2 or the flying in the Horizon sequel? Loading game worlds in an instant might also mean more interior buildings in a game like GTA or amplified boss fights in a game like GOW2 (IE. Thor and Kratos punching each other through dimensions). 

Last edited by PotentHerbs - on 17 May 2020

CGI-Quality said:
trunkswd said:

This is nothing? It gets better? I mean I know graphics and what not continue to improve, but this was a big leap over current-gen games. 

Nothing. That character model was good, but nothing compared to what's coming. As far as the environment? I told folks about Quixel (what I use in my personal stuff). For games like Tomb Raider, it will make all the difference.

Well Quixel is behind the mega textures used in the demo, so already there, or are you saying Quixel was one of those features you hinted at with more to come.



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With support for current systems we could be seeing three generations of Unreal Engine on PS4/Xbone/Switch which will be interesting.

Even good old UE3 saw some great results this gen in games like Arkham Knight and Outlast II. Doubtless UE4 will continue to deliver on PS5/XSX similarly.

Most interested of course though to see if we get any UE5 games come to Switch and what the results of that are.



setsunatenshi said:

You are missing the point entirely, no one is questioning whether the UE5 engine will be scalable and run across multiple platforms. They even mentioned cell phones would be able to run a version of it. So, can it be run on PC, etc? Yes! Will it run the same as it did on PS5? No! Why? The SSD and massive I/O speeds they have access to stream such high resolution assets which can't be done on other hardware.

We don't actually know the % of how much bandwidth of the SSD was being used on the Playstation 5.
For all we know it was only 500MB/s and a Sata SSD is more than enough to handle it.

However the Unreal Engine 5 demo is entirely capable of running on the PC... And capable of running better than the Playstation 5, the PC can push higher resolutions, framerates and effects.
And on the SSD front... The Samsung 980Pro SSD for instance can do 6.5GB/s which will be out before the PS5 releases and doesn't use TLC or QLC NAND either, but MLC... With a controller that has a chunky DRAM cache.




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Also as a side note. Nvidia does have their GPUDirect Storage for their enterprise customers back in 2019 that does allow their GPUs to directly access the storage while completely bypassing the system memory if needed... I am sure MS's upcoming DirectStorage solution for Series X and PC does something very similar.



https://developer.nvidia.com/gpudirect



                  

PC Specs: CPU: 7800X3D || GPU: Strix 4090 || RAM: 32GB DDR5 6000 || Main SSD: WD 2TB SN850

PotentHerbs said:

I thought the UE5 demo was 4K but it was 1440P! That's absolutely insane. SSM, Guerrilla Games, PD & ND are all likely to surpass the graphical fidelity of UE5 which is crazy to even think about. And it didn't even use RT for that incredible lighting!

The flying portion, including the LOD, no lag, no pop ins, really shows the potential of the SSD. Racing games, or traversal in general, is going to become a lot faster. Can you imagine the web slinging in Spiderman 2 or the flying in the Horizon sequel? Loading game worlds in an instant might also mean more interior buildings in a game like GTA or amplified boss fights in a game like GOW2 (IE. Thor and Kratos punching each other through dimensions). 

Goes to show how good up-scaling tech has come along. Kinda sad that people try to downplay the resolution when most can't even tell if it is native 4k unless told so. Would definitely prefer the extra fidelity (and performance) over native 4k, just looks insanely good and detailed.

Actually really excited at the prospects that consoles have SSD's as standard.Who knows, maybe high speed SSD's will be requirement (minimum spec) on certain games on PC in the near future.



CGI-Quality said:
mjk45 said:

Well Quixel is behind the mega textures used in the demo, so already there, or are you saying Quixel was one of those features you hinted at with more to come.

The latter.

Gotcha thanks. a question or two did you start with mixer or was it with suite,also since it's been around a fair while does hitching itself to Epic affect your license

also since Quixel has been around a while couldn't you have mentioned the underpinning tech to all this upcoming progress while still keeping us excited by your knowledge of what's in store for us, or did you think that would decrease your power over us you old tease.

Last edited by mjk45 - on 18 May 2020

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Pemalite said:
setsunatenshi said:

You are missing the point entirely, no one is questioning whether the UE5 engine will be scalable and run across multiple platforms. They even mentioned cell phones would be able to run a version of it. So, can it be run on PC, etc? Yes! Will it run the same as it did on PS5? No! Why? The SSD and massive I/O speeds they have access to stream such high resolution assets which can't be done on other hardware.

We don't actually know the % of how much bandwidth of the SSD was being used on the Playstation 5.
For all we know it was only 500MB/s and a Sata SSD is more than enough to handle it.

However the Unreal Engine 5 demo is entirely capable of running on the PC... And capable of running better than the Playstation 5, the PC can push higher resolutions, framerates and effects.
And on the SSD front... The Samsung 980Pro SSD for instance can do 6.5GB/s which will be out before the PS5 releases and doesn't use TLC or QLC NAND either, but MLC... With a controller that has a chunky DRAM cache.


Good thing we're not talking about the SSD alone then but how it's integrated in the system's architecture. Or, to quote Tim Sweeney: "The storage architecture on the PS5 is far ahead of anything you can buy on PC for any amount of money right now. It’s going to help drive future PCs."

Btw, I'm pretty sure we'll be able to upgrade to an even faster SSD in the future as prices come down.

Also, @bolded: Why didn't Epic show it running on PC like they did in the past for their previous engines? If I'm showing my product I would want to show it in the best light possible.



setsunatenshi said:
Pemalite said:

We don't actually know the % of how much bandwidth of the SSD was being used on the Playstation 5.
For all we know it was only 500MB/s and a Sata SSD is more than enough to handle it.

However the Unreal Engine 5 demo is entirely capable of running on the PC... And capable of running better than the Playstation 5, the PC can push higher resolutions, framerates and effects.
And on the SSD front... The Samsung 980Pro SSD for instance can do 6.5GB/s which will be out before the PS5 releases and doesn't use TLC or QLC NAND either, but MLC... With a controller that has a chunky DRAM cache.


Good thing we're not talking about the SSD alone then but how it's integrated in the system's architecture. Or, to quote Tim Sweeney: "The storage architecture on the PS5 is far ahead of anything you can buy on PC for any amount of money right now. It’s going to help drive future PCs."

Btw, I'm pretty sure we'll be able to upgrade to an even faster SSD in the future as prices come down.

Also, @bolded: Why didn't Epic show it running on PC like they did in the past for their previous engines? If I'm showing my product I would want to show it in the best light possible.

probably because all PS games coming to PC will be sold in the Epic Store, probably



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