Forums - Gaming Discussion - Next gen PS5/XB1SX sales ratio will look the same as this gen's. Huge changes in console marketshare require huge changes in the industry.

sales2099 said:

No way this gens market share will be the same. PS5 will still win but by a lesser margin. How much we have to see.

Xbox won’t start with a crippling brand image, no mandatory peripheral, the rumoured $300 Xbox will undercut PS unlike Xbox One being $100 more, Series X has better specs on paper then PS5 unlike XB1, and their first party studios are really beefed up. And with all this you think Xbox will only sell 50 million lifetime? Lol cmon.

But despite all this, you mentioned huge changes in the industry. Xbox is moving away from just consoles and is becoming a ecosystem. If MS plays their cards right they don’t have to sell more consoles to have a more popular brand. Everybody on PC playing a Xbox first party studio game is part of Xbox. I mean their PCs run on MS operating systems just like Xbox might as well come full circle and give them Xbox games too. Game Pass, Xcloud especially if that takes off. I know Xbox won’t win conventionally, and that’s the point. MS changing the rules if they do it well. 

You can't have the "they will do better in HW sales, but if they don't then it doesn't matter because they diversified with PC and GP". You are already setting up an excuse.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Around the Network
eva01beserk said:
Some are waiting for some major announcements to vote. But I argue that something major has already been around.

VR.

We know MS is not touching it this gen either and Sony is going deeper in after just coming out being the #1 VR product numbers wise. VR requires more power to run same games so while on a TV the diference of the new consoles could be disregarded, on VR it would have been more noticeable but sadly MS is not participating.

That's also a setup for next gen. This might really be the last gen for traditional consoles and why xbox is going the gamepass xcloud route because by then cloud gaming might really be good enough on your tv. But I'm gessing that the input lag and lower fidelity variable resolutions will be unacceptable for VR. So if a 10th does happen it will be focused on VR and I think gamers will take notice on 9th gen.

I hope they do, if only because it’s resources being used on a niche that doesn’t translate to more traditional exclusives. Didn’t PS4 VR only sell 5 million? Kinect sold 25 million but didn’t really add anything to the brand in a meaningful way, that’s my point. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

DonFerrari said:
sales2099 said:

No way this gens market share will be the same. PS5 will still win but by a lesser margin. How much we have to see.

Xbox won’t start with a crippling brand image, no mandatory peripheral, the rumoured $300 Xbox will undercut PS unlike Xbox One being $100 more, Series X has better specs on paper then PS5 unlike XB1, and their first party studios are really beefed up. And with all this you think Xbox will only sell 50 million lifetime? Lol cmon.

But despite all this, you mentioned huge changes in the industry. Xbox is moving away from just consoles and is becoming a ecosystem. If MS plays their cards right they don’t have to sell more consoles to have a more popular brand. Everybody on PC playing a Xbox first party studio game is part of Xbox. I mean their PCs run on MS operating systems just like Xbox might as well come full circle and give them Xbox games too. Game Pass, Xcloud especially if that takes off. I know Xbox won’t win conventionally, and that’s the point. MS changing the rules if they do it well. 

You can't have the "they will do better in HW sales, but if they don't then it doesn't matter because they diversified with PC and GP". You are already setting up an excuse.

I firmly maintain Series X and Lockhart will pass 50 million lifetime. If it gets less then that then I concede. In regards to not being able to beat PS5 in the traditional sense yes I am pre-moving goal posts so when the time comes people can’t accuse me of moving said post. I’ll point out that the post has been moved years ago. I’ll point to where the post is and show the concrete, indicating it hasn’t moved in a long time :)



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

sales2099 said:
Runa216 said:

Do you even live in the same world as the rest of us? I mean...no crippling brand image? Are you okay? Microsoft has been the laughing stock of the industry since the Xbox One's launch in 2013. No games, no exclusives, and all this talk of 'more power' in the OneX model did nothing, Sony still beats them senseless and they continue to give less and less of a reason to get an Xbox by putting all their exclusives and features on PC/Switch. They have nothing but the power, and history proves that Raw Power has virtually no impact on game or console sales. The most powerful console never wins their generation. PS4 was bested by Xbox OneX, Wii won that generation over two far superior consoles, PS2 was the weakest of the three of that generation. I don't actually know which was stronger between PS1 and N64, but the point is that, historically, the most powerful console doesn't get a significant boost. 

Nothing in the last seven years indicates any change in momentum for Microsoft. They're putting out exclusives at a slower rate than ever before, and all we're getting is a dozen rapid-fire promises and attempts to strong-arm the competition by buying smaller companies. All the promises in the world mean nothing if they've consistently failed and fell short over the last decade or so. (Seriously, I think 2009 was the last time Xbox was on top of anything)

The general notion May 2020 about Xbox is not what the internet was like in May 2013 concerning Xbox. The brand was going in the wrong direction then, that’s not the case now. Your opening comment fails to acknowledge that and is a gross exaggeration.

The Xbox X came too late but it matters more in the beginning, when core gamers decide where to play their multiplats and it snowballs from there. And that’s a major advantage PS4 had with constant multiplat comparisons of 900p vs 1080p. 

As far as Switch goes, only a few minor games made their way over, or games that were all ready multiplat. And I suppose it’s a culture divide but PC isn’t separate anymore. It’s part of the ecosystem for anyone who partakes. And I’ve always had the notion that serious PC gamers weren’t gonna buy a Xbox anyway, so MS brings the games to them and thus has little impact on console sales. 


Power alone doesn’t win a gen, so good thing MS has the cheaper Xbox in the works. And they have been doing much promises lately, but July should start to put those concerns to rest. But you seem deluded yourself in that you don’t recognize their efforts in superior backwards compatibility, Game Pass being the best deal in gaming and a reason in itself to own a Xbox over PS. Xcloud being a wild card and their new studios paying off once their games are ready (it’s all ready been a couple years for many of their buys). 

I’ll just say that with this gen, you don’t need a Xbox to support Xbox. And that’s what will give the brand a fighting chance. PC gamers can “stick it to MS” by not buying their consoles, yet they be playing their games all the same. They be gaining a community where Sony largely won’t go. 

A lot of gamers decided to go for the PS4 only because it was $100 CHEAPER than Xbone, that’s at least 2 extra games. Being more powerful was a secondary addition. 



kazuyamishima said:
sales2099 said:

The general notion May 2020 about Xbox is not what the internet was like in May 2013 concerning Xbox. The brand was going in the wrong direction then, that’s not the case now. Your opening comment fails to acknowledge that and is a gross exaggeration.

The Xbox X came too late but it matters more in the beginning, when core gamers decide where to play their multiplats and it snowballs from there. And that’s a major advantage PS4 had with constant multiplat comparisons of 900p vs 1080p. 

As far as Switch goes, only a few minor games made their way over, or games that were all ready multiplat. And I suppose it’s a culture divide but PC isn’t separate anymore. It’s part of the ecosystem for anyone who partakes. And I’ve always had the notion that serious PC gamers weren’t gonna buy a Xbox anyway, so MS brings the games to them and thus has little impact on console sales. 


Power alone doesn’t win a gen, so good thing MS has the cheaper Xbox in the works. And they have been doing much promises lately, but July should start to put those concerns to rest. But you seem deluded yourself in that you don’t recognize their efforts in superior backwards compatibility, Game Pass being the best deal in gaming and a reason in itself to own a Xbox over PS. Xcloud being a wild card and their new studios paying off once their games are ready (it’s all ready been a couple years for many of their buys). 

I’ll just say that with this gen, you don’t need a Xbox to support Xbox. And that’s what will give the brand a fighting chance. PC gamers can “stick it to MS” by not buying their consoles, yet they be playing their games all the same. They be gaining a community where Sony largely won’t go. 

A lot of gamers decided to go for the PS4 only because it was $100 CHEAPER than Xbone, that’s at least 2 extra games. Being more powerful was a secondary addition. 

Yes, there were many factors at play. Now if the $300 Xbox is true, MS can literally have it both ways. That said at this point the PS brand power trumps both, but at least Xbox legs will be stronger out the gate. What MS does from there will have to keep the momentum. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

Around the Network
sales2099 said:
Runa216 said:

Do you even live in the same world as the rest of us? I mean...no crippling brand image? Are you okay? Microsoft has been the laughing stock of the industry since the Xbox One's launch in 2013. No games, no exclusives, and all this talk of 'more power' in the OneX model did nothing, Sony still beats them senseless and they continue to give less and less of a reason to get an Xbox by putting all their exclusives and features on PC/Switch. They have nothing but the power, and history proves that Raw Power has virtually no impact on game or console sales. The most powerful console never wins their generation. PS4 was bested by Xbox OneX, Wii won that generation over two far superior consoles, PS2 was the weakest of the three of that generation. I don't actually know which was stronger between PS1 and N64, but the point is that, historically, the most powerful console doesn't get a significant boost. 

Nothing in the last seven years indicates any change in momentum for Microsoft. They're putting out exclusives at a slower rate than ever before, and all we're getting is a dozen rapid-fire promises and attempts to strong-arm the competition by buying smaller companies. All the promises in the world mean nothing if they've consistently failed and fell short over the last decade or so. (Seriously, I think 2009 was the last time Xbox was on top of anything)

The general notion May 2020 about Xbox is not what the internet was like in May 2013 concerning Xbox. The brand was going in the wrong direction then, that’s not the case now. Your opening comment fails to acknowledge that and is a gross exaggeration.

The Xbox X came too late but it matters more in the beginning, when core gamers decide where to play their multiplats and it snowballs from there. And that’s a major advantage PS4 had with constant multiplat comparisons of 900p vs 1080p. 

As far as Switch goes, only a few minor games made their way over, or games that were all ready multiplat. And I suppose it’s a culture divide but PC isn’t separate anymore. It’s part of the ecosystem for anyone who partakes. And I’ve always had the notion that serious PC gamers weren’t gonna buy a Xbox anyway, so MS brings the games to them and thus has little impact on console sales. 


Power alone doesn’t win a gen, so good thing MS has the cheaper Xbox in the works. And they have been doing much promises lately, but July should start to put those concerns to rest. But you seem deluded yourself in that you don’t recognize their efforts in superior backwards compatibility, Game Pass being the best deal in gaming and a reason in itself to own a Xbox over PS. Xcloud being a wild card and their new studios paying off once their games are ready (it’s all ready been a couple years for many of their buys). 

I’ll just say that with this gen, you don’t need a Xbox to support Xbox. And that’s what will give the brand a fighting chance. PC gamers can “stick it to MS” by not buying their consoles, yet they be playing their games all the same. They be gaining a community where Sony largely won’t go. 

Care to explain how Sony turned over a 3 year bad momentum on PS3 versus Xbox360 within the next 3 years of that same gen but Xbox One wasn't capable to turn the 6 months bad momentum on X1 vs PS4 in the remaining 5 years?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

sales2099 said:
DonFerrari said:

You can't have the "they will do better in HW sales, but if they don't then it doesn't matter because they diversified with PC and GP". You are already setting up an excuse.

I firmly maintain Series X and Lockhart will pass 50 million lifetime. If it gets less then that then I concede. In regards to not being able to beat PS5 in the traditional sense yes I am pre-moving goal posts so when the time comes people can’t accuse me of moving said post. I’ll point out that the post has been moved years ago. I’ll point to where the post is and show the concrete, indicating it hasn’t moved in a long time :)

Well I do think Xbox have a good chance of selling 60M on gen9, and also I do agree that as a company if GP and playanywhere brings more money then they succeeded more than this gen as well (but since we are talking only HW sales that is a different point).

And don't worry because I know that ever since the reveal you are saying you don't expect XSX to outsell PS5, just that they will do better than now, which is also a very reasonable expectation.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

sales2099 said:
eva01beserk said:
Some are waiting for some major announcements to vote. But I argue that something major has already been around.

VR.

We know MS is not touching it this gen either and Sony is going deeper in after just coming out being the #1 VR product numbers wise. VR requires more power to run same games so while on a TV the diference of the new consoles could be disregarded, on VR it would have been more noticeable but sadly MS is not participating.

That's also a setup for next gen. This might really be the last gen for traditional consoles and why xbox is going the gamepass xcloud route because by then cloud gaming might really be good enough on your tv. But I'm gessing that the input lag and lower fidelity variable resolutions will be unacceptable for VR. So if a 10th does happen it will be focused on VR and I think gamers will take notice on 9th gen.

I hope they do, if only because it’s resources being used on a niche that doesn’t translate to more traditional exclusives. Didn’t PS4 VR only sell 5 million? Kinect sold 25 million but didn’t really add anything to the brand in a meaningful way, that’s my point. 

Yes A $400 addition sold 5m, more than all competitors combined(Not sure if this changed). The issue with kinect was that it was a new way to play games that replaced traditional gaming. When the novelty whore off, like wii motion controls, gamers abandoned it. VR is not a new way of playing but an enhancenment of traditional gaming. Like better sound, rumble and whatever else. It immerses you deeper into the game while still playing the same way. You can take off the VR and still play the same game on the TV. 

Reason VR haasent taken off yet is the high price of entry. Im pretty sure there are plenty of people waiting for it to be more accesible. Also pretty sure Sony will invest more into it as on this gen the games released where really underwhelming. Only one that comes to mind that was good was resident evil. On the PC side valve just went all out with half life and I hear it good. But boy is its price hurts to just look at. 



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

DonFerrari said:

Care to explain how Sony turned over a 3 year bad momentum on PS3 versus Xbox360 within the next 3 years of that same gen but Xbox One wasn't capable to turn the 6 months bad momentum on X1 vs PS4 in the remaining 5 years?

The PS3 was selling nearly 1:1 with the 360, the LTD gap between the two consoles being largely owed to the ~5.5m headstart the 360 had. At its peak, the 360 was ahead of the PS3 by ~8m, so that's a gain of only ~1m per year until the point where Sony introduced the PS3 Slim.

The PS4 was selling at a ratio of 2:1 or above in comparison to the XB1, so the hill that the XB1 had to climb was much, much steeper.

While people remember how big the blunders were that Sony committed with the PS3, it happens all too often that the situation is portrayed as Microsoft doing everything right at the time. But in reality, Microsoft largely botched their headstart (again, the 360 sold only ~5.5m in the 12 months before the PS3 launched) and then had to deal with the negative PR of the widespread Red Ring of Death.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Gamers Club

sales2099 said:
kazuyamishima said:

A lot of gamers decided to go for the PS4 only because it was $100 CHEAPER than Xbone, that’s at least 2 extra games. Being more powerful was a secondary addition. 

Yes, there were many factors at play. Now if the $300 Xbox is true, MS can literally have it both ways. That said at this point the PS brand power trumps both, but at least Xbox legs will be stronger out the gate. What MS does from there will have to keep the momentum. 


One X is already on sale for less than $300.And it's not selling very well.
And you can play the same game on ONE X and Lockhart.