Forums - Gaming Discussion - How much do you care about the graphical leap between consoles at this point?

RolStoppable said:
Very much. The leap from the Wii U to Switch was massive and if it hadn't been that way, I would have skipped the console.

Most of the improvements in most Wii U to Switch ports have just been increased framerates and resolution though, even in first party titles like Breath of the Wild, Mario Kart 8, Smash Brothers, Donkey Kong, Hyrule Warriors, New Super Mario Bros, Captain Toad and more... Just resolution and framerate rather than an uptick in visual fidelity.
They could have reworked some of the assets and adjusted the rendering pipeline to take advantage of the new hardware feature sets but generally they didn't.

It's a disappointing showing from first party titles in all honesty.

But when Nintendo does build games from scratch that uses the Switch's hardware, boy... Does it make me happy.
Links Awakening with it's impressive material shaders really really really impressed me, hence why it's probably my favorite Switch title thus far... And really wouldn't have been possible on Wii U without a plethora of visual compromises I think. - Is it a perfect game visually? Heck no. But it showed us some possibilities what the old Tegra is capable of.
Luigi's Mansion 3 showed off some impressive lighting and shadowing effects as well.

But overall, we haven't really had a hardware-defining game just yet, Breath of the Wild (A Wii U port) is still one of the platforms most technically impressive titles... And that released years ago, part of that is due to Nintendo's extremely strong art direction which hides the hardware deficiencies.

Wman1996 said:

Switching gears, I think the reason the graphical leaps seems to be diminishing returns at this point is due to several factors. Frame rates and resolutions have been a bigger deal in console gaming from the 7th Gen onward than they ever have been. It takes a lot more processing power to run most games at 4K 60FPS. In the past, graphic fidelity itself (and memory for bigger worlds) was a big focus. Now it seems to be on resolution, frame rate, online fidelity, AI, and the like.

It's much easier to improve shit visuals like PS1/N64 games and improve them multiples of times.
But when games start to look amazing with high quality and intricate assets, given they are still just rough "approximations" - It's much harder to get a multiples improvement.

I think most developers at this point have given up chasing the 4k-everything dream and will instead resort to frame-reconstruction of various types (Which the gaming industry has been experimenting with all generation long) and dynamic resolutions to make faux-4k in order to bolster visuals and retain a degree of framerate consistency.

We aren't at a point yet where consoles have the technology to run games at 4k, 60fps with Ray Tracing, next-gen won't do it, not for visually impressive titles anyway.

Once we look towards the generation after the 9th gen, we will probably start to see movements to more precise and expensive forms of rendering paths, rather than the current paradigm, Ray Tracing will finally come into it's own as well.
I'm excited.

This next gen though, the improvements aren't all in the graphics, simulation quality and complexity will take a leap forward instead.

victor83fernandes said:
RolStoppable said:
Very much. The leap from the Wii U to Switch was massive and if it hadn't been that way, I would have skipped the console.

Just be honest you never had a wiiU, the graphical upgrade from wiiU to switch is barely noticeable, way less difference than a ps4 to ps4 pro. I have both the wiiU and switch.

You might need glasses if you think the difference was massive. 

I don't disagree with you, there hasn't been many games that showcase the difference in hardware capabilities...
That is mostly Nintendo's fault.

But there is a significant hardware jump, not as significant as the jump between the Xbox 360 and Xbox One or Playstation 3 and Playstation 4, but it is still there.
We just haven't had the games to show off everything yet from first party.

But Doom, Wolfenstein, Witcher, Links Awakening, Luigi's Mansion 3 have showed it's got an edge over Wii U and there is still more to come.



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As someone who's mostly playing indie and retro games anyway, graphics are no big concern of mine. I prefer good games over beautiful games any time. Of course, if they are both great and beautiful, that's always a plus, but it's graphics are not what attracts me to a game.



Pemalite said:
RolStoppable said:
Very much. The leap from the Wii U to Switch was massive and if it hadn't been that way, I would have skipped the console.

Most of the improvements in most Wii U to Switch ports have just been increased framerates and resolution though, even in first party titles like Breath of the Wild, Mario Kart 8, Smash Brothers, Donkey Kong, Hyrule Warriors, New Super Mario Bros, Captain Toad and more... Just resolution and framerate rather than an uptick in visual fidelity.
They could have reworked some of the assets and adjusted the rendering pipeline to take advantage of the new hardware feature sets but generally they didn't.

It's a disappointing showing from first party titles in all honesty.

But when Nintendo does build games from scratch that uses the Switch's hardware, boy... Does it make me happy.
Links Awakening with it's impressive material shaders really really really impressed me, hence why it's probably my favorite Switch title thus far... And really wouldn't have been possible on Wii U without a plethora of visual compromises I think. - Is it a perfect game visually? Heck no. But it showed us some possibilities what the old Tegra is capable of.
Luigi's Mansion 3 showed off some impressive lighting and shadowing effects as well.

But overall, we haven't really had a hardware-defining game just yet, Breath of the Wild (A Wii U port) is still one of the platforms most technically impressive titles... And that released years ago, part of that is due to Nintendo's extremely strong art direction which hides the hardware deficiencies.

Wman1996 said:

Switching gears, I think the reason the graphical leaps seems to be diminishing returns at this point is due to several factors. Frame rates and resolutions have been a bigger deal in console gaming from the 7th Gen onward than they ever have been. It takes a lot more processing power to run most games at 4K 60FPS. In the past, graphic fidelity itself (and memory for bigger worlds) was a big focus. Now it seems to be on resolution, frame rate, online fidelity, AI, and the like.

It's much easier to improve shit visuals like PS1/N64 games and improve them multiples of times.
But when games start to look amazing with high quality and intricate assets, given they are still just rough "approximations" - It's much harder to get a multiples improvement.

I think most developers at this point have given up chasing the 4k-everything dream and will instead resort to frame-reconstruction of various types (Which the gaming industry has been experimenting with all generation long) and dynamic resolutions to make faux-4k in order to bolster visuals and retain a degree of framerate consistency.

We aren't at a point yet where consoles have the technology to run games at 4k, 60fps with Ray Tracing, next-gen won't do it, not for visually impressive titles anyway.

Once we look towards the generation after the 9th gen, we will probably start to see movements to more precise and expensive forms of rendering paths, rather than the current paradigm, Ray Tracing will finally come into it's own as well.
I'm excited.

This next gen though, the improvements aren't all in the graphics, simulation quality and complexity will take a leap forward instead.

victor83fernandes said:

Just be honest you never had a wiiU, the graphical upgrade from wiiU to switch is barely noticeable, way less difference than a ps4 to ps4 pro. I have both the wiiU and switch.

You might need glasses if you think the difference was massive. 

I don't disagree with you, there hasn't been many games that showcase the difference in hardware capabilities...
That is mostly Nintendo's fault.

But there is a significant hardware jump, not as significant as the jump between the Xbox 360 and Xbox One or Playstation 3 and Playstation 4, but it is still there.
We just haven't had the games to show off everything yet from first party.

But Doom, Wolfenstein, Witcher, Links Awakening, Luigi's Mansion 3 have showed it's got an edge over Wii U and there is still more to come.

Check games on wiiU such as Xenoblades X. The wiiU was not pushed because it was not selling so nintendo abandoned it.

My issue was with the comment that it was a massive upgrade, as I said the ps4 pro has a much bigger upgrade to slim ps4 than wiiU to switch.

The upgrade exists but its nowhere near a generational or even mid-ten upgrade. Nowhere near the wii to wiiU upgrade which was massive.

Those games you mention on switch most look really bad full of aliasing and framerate issues.



Diminishing returns? PSVR is at the bottom of the fidelity ladder. PSVR 2.0 or simply VR games running on PS5 will be as big a leap as PS2 to PS3.

And hopefully we'll get dynamic time and weather back in Gran Turismo. GT Sport was a generational step backwards in that regard.



DonFerrari said:
victor83fernandes said:

Proof that you have been playing Gran Turismo, try forza next time, I know the feeling I was a fan of GT.

Proof? I love GTS, but that same phenomenon occurs on NF, DC and basically most racing games. And no I have no interest in drivatar and they copying bad playstile from bad drivers.

It's there by design to keep the single player races interesting. We live in a time now where it needs to be easy to win and it needs to look like you deserve to win. If the AI would drive to their capabilities most races would be nothing but boring watch the gaps grow events.

The problem is, then those players enter online and drive against real people as if they're racing the AI causing chaos since real people don't jump out of the way to let idiots pass. Drivatards don't teach any better racing skills. The 'AI' in Forza Horizon 4 was horrible, not fun to race at all. I turned the difficulty down so I could focus on driving fast clean races instead of getting rammed by the idiot AI all the time.

The AI in GT Sport can be pretty good if you figure out how to balance them. That's a shortfall of the game, but it is possible to get good races against the AI after a lot of tweaking. (Mostly using under powered cars and or worse tires) The AI does know how to race, but it's held back for the sake of needing to be easy to beat.



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I don't care that much, I'm very much fine with TloU2 graphics fidelity + very clean image quality at high framerates, especially if there is no visible lod changes/pop in/shadow draw in etc anymore. It would be amazing if this turns out to be much easier to achieve next gen, hopefully resulting in more game releases from premium studios.



SvennoJ said:
DonFerrari said:

Proof? I love GTS, but that same phenomenon occurs on NF, DC and basically most racing games. And no I have no interest in drivatar and they copying bad playstile from bad drivers.

It's there by design to keep the single player races interesting. We live in a time now where it needs to be easy to win and it needs to look like you deserve to win. If the AI would drive to their capabilities most races would be nothing but boring watch the gaps grow events.

The problem is, then those players enter online and drive against real people as if they're racing the AI causing chaos since real people don't jump out of the way to let idiots pass. Drivatards don't teach any better racing skills. The 'AI' in Forza Horizon 4 was horrible, not fun to race at all. I turned the difficulty down so I could focus on driving fast clean races instead of getting rammed by the idiot AI all the time.

The AI in GT Sport can be pretty good if you figure out how to balance them. That's a shortfall of the game, but it is possible to get good races against the AI after a lot of tweaking. (Mostly using under powered cars and or worse tires) The AI does know how to race, but it's held back for the sake of needing to be easy to beat.

Yes I know it is done to increase the enjoyment like making you pass a lot of drivers during the race but keep under pressure. Sure enough in some races you have the tweak done so well and are so OP that even with the rubber-band in a 5laps race it is possible to overlap every oponent. It is just something I don't like and don't need, but certainly understand why it is there.

And considering I hate even more when older AIs crashed on player and used you to take a corner or brake I'm pretty sure I would hate even more the drivatar that mimic this type of driving style of a lot of players out there.

I do agree with you on the tweaking and that is mainly the reason I do for lack of damage physics. In real racing once you hit hard you are out of the race so racing is done with no crash or collision. If you want to mimic that reality in the game just hit reset race whenever you bump hard in someone. Also if you want challenge just get the minimum possible winning car performance and drive like that, you'll barely pass them in the end of the race. Agree as well that the AI drives properly and on the right line almost all the time, and only change that if you are too aggressive then they will counter the same way.

On challenge though we should get back those from GT5 where even though the drivers would always do the same, if you didn't know the best or perfect way to race that challenge you wouldn't be able to finish first no matter what.



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I stopped caring about graphical leaps 20 years ago



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DonFerrari said:

Yes I know it is done to increase the enjoyment like making you pass a lot of drivers during the race but keep under pressure. Sure enough in some races you have the tweak done so well and are so OP that even with the rubber-band in a 5laps race it is possible to overlap every oponent. It is just something I don't like and don't need, but certainly understand why it is there.

And considering I hate even more when older AIs crashed on player and used you to take a corner or brake I'm pretty sure I would hate even more the drivatar that mimic this type of driving style of a lot of players out there.

I do agree with you on the tweaking and that is mainly the reason I do for lack of damage physics. In real racing once you hit hard you are out of the race so racing is done with no crash or collision. If you want to mimic that reality in the game just hit reset race whenever you bump hard in someone. Also if you want challenge just get the minimum possible winning car performance and drive like that, you'll barely pass them in the end of the race. Agree as well that the AI drives properly and on the right line almost all the time, and only change that if you are too aggressive then they will counter the same way.

On challenge though we should get back those from GT5 where even though the drivers would always do the same, if you didn't know the best or perfect way to race that challenge you wouldn't be able to finish first no matter what.

There is the Lewis Hamilton DLC (only paid DLC for GT Sport) for those wanting to challenge themselves. It's not racing him though, just his time trial ghost with a bunch of videos how to get better. I don't like time trials so skipped it.

The hard challenges in GT were always those instant fail ones when you make contact or go over the line with more than 2 wheels. That taught you proper racing lines. But then Grid introduced rewind which Forza took over :/ That was the end of my love for Forza as a sim...




For me, games like Luigi's Mansion 3 and Mario Odyssey still look great. 

As far as Switch's eventual successor, I'm less concerned with how pretty it'll look and more about it having the necessary power to run a wide range of games, just as Switch's graphical upgrade over Wii U is less important to me than its ability to run PS4/Xbone games like Doom, Witcher 3, and Hellblade.



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