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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Outer World game design are held back by PS4 and Xbox One , another prove that Next gen will be held back by current gen if games are made for cross gen

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What do you think

Cross gen games will held... 9 52.94%
 
Yes it suck to have cross... 6 35.29%
 
I don't care because the ... 1 5.88%
 
i don't agree with game d... 1 5.88%
 
Total:17
eva01beserk on 20 April 2020
Pemalite said:
Barozi said:
In reality the game is held back because big budget PC exclusives don't generate enough money.

Say what?

StarCitizen. - $277 Million.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals

World of WarCraft. - Over $9 Billion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_of_Warcraft

League of Legends $1 - $2 Billion per year. (Over $5 Billion.)
https://www.statista.com/statistics/806975/lol-revenue/

DOTA 2 - $1 Billion.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/807617/dota-2-revenue/

I could keep going. Games like Crysis, Elder Scrolls, Doom, Quake, Unreal Tournament, Fable, Halo, Grand Theft Auto, PUBG and more all existed on the PC as exclusives at first as well at one point remember.

We need to remember that the PC Market is more than a $25-$35 Billion dollar market, it's not small or insignificant like you might insinuate.

Can you name a singular console that is bigger than the PC?

Im glad china is keeping PC Gaming alive with their free to play and/or esport. But As someone who boast PC master race and all, why brag about games that can be played in phones? Why not talk about where the big budget games are making all the money? Why not be honest and say Consoles are almost 50% biger market over all, and add to that the majority of PC gaming is free to play titles coming from asia? So yea, PC gaming is small compared to consoles. 



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sales2099 on 20 April 2020

HollyGamer said:
sales2099 said:

Ok what’s your overall message? Its not “cross gen games are held back by the older gen” because we all kinda know that. I mean what’s the narrative you got that expands that statement? 

Because if that’s all you got then it really just serves the “my console is better then yours narrative”. And if this is the best argument against Xbox in 2020 I say Xbox is doing pretty good for THIS to be the leading argument against it ;) All moot point if the games are critically acclaimed. It’s hard to boast superiority if your consoles launch titles are lesser quality then another.

But you must acknowledge there are so many factors at play that don’t make this what you got pictured in your head (scaling and optimization). There are many examples of cross gen games that have features in the latest hardware that are cut from the older version. That alone is a nice work around to your argument. 

Simple answer is cross gen are bad 

That’s debatable. Certainly despite being held back cross gen games can still get critical acclaim and reach a wide audience.  And the period is temporary, usually does last 1-2 years where even next gen exclusives barely scratch system potential (compare Killzone Shadowfall to LOU2). 

Silver lining for late adopters that don’t buy next gen consoles in the first couple years. Maybe they just got a console, maybe they wait for the first price drop and notable exclusives to release before jumping in. It’s forward thinking to not leave anybody behind when the new gen starts. Anybody who buys Halo Infinite for Xbox One is ok in my book. Keep the games open to as many people as possible in a period where developers are just learning the new console. Doesn’t sound so bad if you think like that. 

Last edited by sales2099 - on 20 April 2020

Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

Fragenstein on 20 April 2020
sales2099 said:

HollyGamer said:

Simple answer is cross gen are bad 

That’s debatable. Certainly despite being held back cross gen games can still get critical acclaim and reach a wide audience.  And the period is temporary, usually does last 1-2 years where even next gen exclusives barely scratch system potential (compare Killzone Shadowfall to LOU2). 

Silver lining for late adopters that don’t buy next gen consoles in the first couple years. Maybe hey just got a console, maybe they wait for the first price drop and notable exclusives to release before jumping in. It’s forward thinking to not leave anybody behind when the new gen starts. Anybody who buys Halo Infinite for Xbox One is ok in my book. They still part of the Xbox ecosystem and choice is never a bad thing. 

Shadowfall is still a pretty impressive looking game though, especially compared to the cross gen titles like Halo 4. The problem with Shadowfall wasn't in pushing next gen graphics and showcasing the potential of what the ps4 could do, it was more the lack of interesting gameplay and story. But that doesn't mean you're not missing much by sitting out the first 2 years by definition, though.

If Sony would have another Killzone at launch, you might be right and I wouldn't be expecting much from it. However, if it's a Horizon Zero Dawn 2 at launch, it would be a different story.  



HollyGamer on 20 April 2020
sales2099 said:

HollyGamer said:

Simple answer is cross gen are bad 

That’s debatable. Certainly despite being held back cross gen games can still get critical acclaim and reach a wide audience.  And the period is temporary, usually does last 1-2 years where even next gen exclusives barely scratch system potential (compare Killzone Shadowfall to LOU2). 

Silver lining for late adopters that don’t buy next gen consoles in the first couple years. Maybe they just got a console, maybe they wait for the first price drop and notable exclusives to release before jumping in. It’s forward thinking to not leave anybody behind when the new gen starts. Anybody who buys Halo Infinite for Xbox One is ok in my book. Keep the games open to as many people as possible in a period where developers are just learning the new console. Doesn’t sound so bad if you think like that. 

Cross gen is a lazy excuse while developer learning new stuff and sales department trying to milk last gen as much as then can . PERIOD, that's indisputable fact , a well known fact

Yes people don't buy next gen consoles in first couple years but it's not the case with Switch , PS4 , PS2, . I am not saying all game developer have to strife for next gen exclusives but at least first party shall be the one shows them and shows the difference what next gen is capable of. 



sales2099 on 20 April 2020
Fragenstein said:
sales2099 said:

That’s debatable. Certainly despite being held back cross gen games can still get critical acclaim and reach a wide audience.  And the period is temporary, usually does last 1-2 years where even next gen exclusives barely scratch system potential (compare Killzone Shadowfall to LOU2). 

Silver lining for late adopters that don’t buy next gen consoles in the first couple years. Maybe hey just got a console, maybe they wait for the first price drop and notable exclusives to release before jumping in. It’s forward thinking to not leave anybody behind when the new gen starts. Anybody who buys Halo Infinite for Xbox One is ok in my book. They still part of the Xbox ecosystem and choice is never a bad thing. 

Shadowfall is still a pretty impressive looking game though, especially compared to the cross gen titles like Halo 4. The problem with Shadowfall wasn't in pushing next gen graphics and showcasing the potential of what the ps4 could do, it was more the lack of interesting gameplay and story. But that doesn't mean you're not missing much by sitting out the first 2 years by definition, though.

If Sony would have another Killzone at launch, you might be right and I wouldn't be expecting much from it. However, if it's a Horizon Zero Dawn 2 at launch, it would be a different story.  

I agree that great experiences in the first 1-2 years come regardless of some games being cross gen. Which is my whole argument against OP. Even on a technical level KZ Shadowfall and LOU2 are pretty huge, which is also my point. Cross gen and early exclusives ultimately are the same thing: the developer is still getting used to the hardware. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

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sales2099 on 20 April 2020
HollyGamer said:
sales2099 said:

That’s debatable. Certainly despite being held back cross gen games can still get critical acclaim and reach a wide audience.  And the period is temporary, usually does last 1-2 years where even next gen exclusives barely scratch system potential (compare Killzone Shadowfall to LOU2). 

Silver lining for late adopters that don’t buy next gen consoles in the first couple years. Maybe they just got a console, maybe they wait for the first price drop and notable exclusives to release before jumping in. It’s forward thinking to not leave anybody behind when the new gen starts. Anybody who buys Halo Infinite for Xbox One is ok in my book. Keep the games open to as many people as possible in a period where developers are just learning the new console. Doesn’t sound so bad if you think like that. 

Cross gen is a lazy excuse while developer learning new stuff and sales department trying to milk last gen as much as then can . PERIOD, that's indisputable fact , a well known fact

Yes people don't buy next gen consoles in first couple years but it's not the case with Switch , PS4 , PS2, . I am not saying all game developer have to strife for next gen exclusives but at least first party shall be the one shows them and shows the difference what next gen is capable of. 

Call it what you like, it’s good for gamers who aren’t early adopters. Choice and options are not a bad thing...and if that’s the narrative you pushing I think that’s definitive proof you need a change of perspective. At the very least it’s selfish. 

If history taught us anything, no 1st party game developer showed what the hardware could really do in the first year. They all learning still. And the way I see it, if you want to show what next gen can do....a good example is a  Digital Foundry comparison video showing the differences between Halo Infinite on Xbox One vs Series X. The difference in FPS, resolution, textures, loading times and whatever else 343 can do will be apparent in said comparison videos. Mission accomplished, gamers will see an easy to digest way to show what next gen brings to the table. You making a mountain out of a anthill. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

Fragenstein on 20 April 2020
sales2099 said:
Fragenstein said:

Shadowfall is still a pretty impressive looking game though, especially compared to the cross gen titles like Halo 4. The problem with Shadowfall wasn't in pushing next gen graphics and showcasing the potential of what the ps4 could do, it was more the lack of interesting gameplay and story. But that doesn't mean you're not missing much by sitting out the first 2 years by definition, though.

If Sony would have another Killzone at launch, you might be right and I wouldn't be expecting much from it. However, if it's a Horizon Zero Dawn 2 at launch, it would be a different story.  

I agree that great experiences in the first 1-2 years come regardless of some games being cross gen. Which is my whole argument against OP. Even on a technical level KZ Shadowfall and LOU2 are pretty huge, which is also my point. Cross gen and early exclusives ultimately are the same thing: the developer is still getting used to the hardware. 

Maybe you're fine with cross gen titles and you're just a good samaritan who cares that everybody gets to play Halo Infinite. However, if I buy a next gen console I would want to play next gen games and get the best version possible. Call it selfish, but isn't that what everyone who buys a next gen console wants?

In my humble opinion, 2 years is a pretty long time and we're not just talking launch titles here. If you look at the time period when Sony's first party studios released their last games, we could already see games from Naughty Dog, Insomniac, Santa Monica and Guerilla Games during that 2 year period. Probably all top quality games specifically designed for next gen hardware. Series X on the other hand will have exclusives like Halo Infinite that'll be the same as on the Xbox One, only running at a higher resolution and framerate. Doesn't mean Halo Infinite will be bad, it's just that it will probably feel a bit outdated by comparison.



DonFerrari on 20 April 2020
coolbeans said:
DonFerrari said:
I'm laughing with "older hardware doesn't limit developers, see BotW". We have had great games every gen, that doesn't mean the hardware wasn't limiting what was possible to do.

But that's the problem: hardware limitations on every console have been part of the game since gen 1.  Developers have very expansive dreams, but need to wrestle with time, resources, and their given hardware to put a viable product on store shelves.  I'm not saying "cross-gen FTW" here, just highlighting how this seems to be reneging an actual dialogue.

Yes I know that. The point is that since the hardware will always limit the software, when you include an older hardware then you also include more limitations that is a very logical statement. And of course having limitations doesn't forbid a game from being great, as I said we have had great games since NES and earlier. So claiming that a game is great even when a crossgen one was doesn't negate that being crossgen limits what is possible more than if it was only nextgen.

Azzanation said:
HollyGamer said:

What??????????????????? , Uncharted 2 and TLOU 2 is PS4 games not PS3 games nor Cross gen games . LMAO 

a good developer can understand the limit thus working out to fill and utilize the potential while learning the limit but it doesn't mean the limit is gone.

Is not about Visual, if it's just visual then this thread wont exist because Xbox series X can run the games which better frame rates, resolution and added affect , it's about game design , NPC, interactivity, phisch , simulation, and others thing that and probably some graphic that also affecting gameplay . Game design is not just about graphic but overal experience. 

Where did i say Uncharted 2? I said Uncharted 4.

Okay so lets ask this question. How bad is this gen for you? Has the hardware limits really affected your gaming that badly that you need all games to cross over to next gen?

I keep finding great games to play this gen and some games continue to push the envelope much further. You must be disapointed in FF7 Remake and upcoming Cyberpunk 2077 because they all use current gen hardware which has limited these games protential. Thats what you sound like.

DonFerrari said:
I'm laughing with "older hardware doesn't limit developers, see BotW". We have had great games every gen, that doesn't mean the hardware wasn't limiting what was possible to do.

Any reason you didnt reply to my post but dicided to post a reply directed towards my post?

As someone else mentioned already as a response, hardware limits had existed since Gen 1 and there will be hardware limits in Gen 9. Great games have been made on limited hardever since forever. Hence BOTW, a game designed on very limited hardware yet outshines all games this gen in terms of a quality game, limits or not, wont stop good devs from creating good games.

2 reasons, first there were more than one person saying it and second we have moderation ban on replying to the other. The person that already mentioned that we have limits and great games was myself just read it the person that replied to me basic just repeated what I said.



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Azzanation on 20 April 2020
Fragenstein said:

Err.. wasn't Cyberpunk delayed because the Xbox One couldn't run it at an acceptable framerate? https://metro.co.uk/2020/01/23/cyberpunk-2077-delay-reason-xbox-one-performance-12109802/

I'm sure it will still turn out great, but Cyberpunk could obviously have been even better if it skipped current gen. Also, nobody is saying you can't have good games on weaker hardware and developers always have to work around the limitations of a console. With next gen consoles those limitations are just a lot smaller, allowing them to do stuff not possible on current gen. What they'll do with it is up to the developers, of course. But I think Outer World is pretty good example of how hardware limited their ambitions of their game.

Its still being made on current gen hardware and I can guarantee no one cares as the game looks amazing, because some devs are just good at making games regardless of hardware. The Outer Worlds is still a great game and was nominated for GOTY. Everything has hardware restrictions and next gen games are also going to have hardware restrictions as everything has limits, unless you are Superman.

HollyGamer said:

Yeah my mistakes , a typo. But then again Uncharted 4 are PS4 games and not Cross gen games

This gen in the middle of the generation has been a blast , not so much in the early PS4 or Xbox One days because it has many cross gen. The capability of the hardware were shown after 2 to 3 years after the consoles has been released . But there is exception like "The Witcher 3" which is exclusives to PS4/Xbox One.

Did i disappointed FF7 remakes and Cyber punk made for current gen? A little,  but did i regret buying of course no, because this games were made to optimize current gen and not next gen. I already satisfied with current gen, i just want to see something new that even better then Cyberpunk (The witcher 4 are now in planning) and FF 7 remake part two for next gen. 

Well glad you like FF7 and the upcoming Cyberpunk 2077. Cross gen games will be even better optimised because devs have more experience with the hardware.

My point is UC4 and TLOU2 look very far apart and they are on the same console. Both games have hardware restrictions but it doesn't downplay the games value.



LudicrousSpeed on 20 April 2020
HollyGamer said:
sales2099 said:

That’s debatable. Certainly despite being held back cross gen games can still get critical acclaim and reach a wide audience.  And the period is temporary, usually does last 1-2 years where even next gen exclusives barely scratch system potential (compare Killzone Shadowfall to LOU2). 

Silver lining for late adopters that don’t buy next gen consoles in the first couple years. Maybe they just got a console, maybe they wait for the first price drop and notable exclusives to release before jumping in. It’s forward thinking to not leave anybody behind when the new gen starts. Anybody who buys Halo Infinite for Xbox One is ok in my book. Keep the games open to as many people as possible in a period where developers are just learning the new console. Doesn’t sound so bad if you think like that. 

Cross gen is a lazy excuse while developer learning new stuff and sales department trying to milk last gen as much as then can . PERIOD, that's indisputable fact , a well known fact

Yes people don't buy next gen consoles in first couple years but it's not the case with Switch , PS4 , PS2, . I am not saying all game developer have to strife for next gen exclusives but at least first party shall be the one shows them and shows the difference what next gen is capable of. 

How would MS first party still not be taking advantage of next gen hardware? We’ve already given you an example in Horizon 2 of MS supporting next gen hardware AND releasing a game on previous hardware. There are plenty of other examples too, whether you want to think they qualify or not 😆

Of course it’s all moot because as countless games have shown throughout history, developers can still make whatever game they want and then alter it to fit weaker hardware. But either way, explain how you expect MS to sell $500-600 hardware with no next gen games 😆