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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Outer World game design are held back by PS4 and Xbox One , another prove that Next gen will be held back by current gen if games are made for cross gen

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What do you think

Cross gen games will held... 9 52.94%
 
Yes it suck to have cross... 6 35.29%
 
I don't care because the ... 1 5.88%
 
i don't agree with game d... 1 5.88%
 
Total:17
Fragenstein said:
sales2099 said:

I agree that great experiences in the first 1-2 years come regardless of some games being cross gen. Which is my whole argument against OP. Even on a technical level KZ Shadowfall and LOU2 are pretty huge, which is also my point. Cross gen and early exclusives ultimately are the same thing: the developer is still getting used to the hardware. 

Maybe you're fine with cross gen titles and you're just a good samaritan who cares that everybody gets to play Halo Infinite. However, if I buy a next gen console I would want to play next gen games and get the best version possible. Call it selfish, but isn't that what everyone who buys a next gen console wants?

In my humble opinion, 2 years is a pretty long time and we're not just talking launch titles here. If you look at the time period when Sony's first party studios released their last games, we could already see games from Naughty Dog, Insomniac, Santa Monica and Guerilla Games during that 2 year period. Probably all top quality games specifically designed for next gen hardware. Series X on the other hand will have exclusives like Halo Infinite that'll be the same as on the Xbox One, only running at a higher resolution and framerate. Doesn't mean Halo Infinite will be bad, it's just that it will probably feel a bit outdated by comparison.

I want the best version too. That’s why I’m getting the Series X version. Others may not care as much so they get it for Xbox One. Again, choice and options is good for gamers. 

2 years is a long time? Lol this whole gen feels like a blur. All your examples of top exclusives fall outside the first 2 years of PS4. Glad you agree the first 2 years are just the practice years.

Backed yourself into a corner. Because you can’t list Ps4s early exclusives alongside greats like HZD, UC4, GOW, Spiderman. You gonna tell me Killzone Shadowfall, The Order and Drive Club deserve to stand next to those titles??? No you can’t....because the first 2 years are practice. Might as well make a scaled down version while they at it. 

Last edited by sales2099 - on 20 April 2020

Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

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sales2099 said:
Fragenstein said:

Maybe you're fine with cross gen titles and you're just a good samaritan who cares that everybody gets to play Halo Infinite. However, if I buy a next gen console I would want to play next gen games and get the best version possible. Call it selfish, but isn't that what everyone who buys a next gen console wants?

In my humble opinion, 2 years is a pretty long time and we're not just talking launch titles here. If you look at the time period when Sony's first party studios released their last games, we could already see games from Naughty Dog, Insomniac, Santa Monica and Guerilla Games during that 2 year period. Probably all top quality games specifically designed for next gen hardware. Series X on the other hand will have exclusives like Halo Infinite that'll be the same as on the Xbox One, only running at a higher resolution and framerate. Doesn't mean Halo Infinite will be bad, it's just that it will probably feel a bit outdated by comparison.

I want the best version too. That’s why I’m getting the Series X version. Others may not care as much so they get it for Xbox One. Again, choice and options is good for gamers. 

2 years is a long time? Lol this whole gen feels like a blur. All your examples of top exclusives fall outside the first 2 years of PS4. Glad you agree the first 2 years are just the practice years.

Backed yourself into a corner. Because you can’t list Ps4s early exclusives alongside greats like HZD, UC4, GOW, Spiderman. You gonna tell me Killzone Shadowfall, The Order and Drive Club deserve to stand next to those titles??? No you can’t....because the first 2 years are practice. Might as well make a scaled down version while they at it. 

If you want the best version then how can you not care if it will be cross gen with Xbox One? The ps4 might not have had great launch titles but that doesn't mean it's some kind of rule that the good stuff only starts coming out 2 years in. You have to look at the time lines of Sony's 1st party studios. When the ps4 came out, most of them just released a big game like The Last of US, GOW Ascension. Guerilla Games were doing Killzone (which was never that great a franchise to begin with) and Insomniac was still 3rd party, making Sunset Overdrive.

Next gen seems to be different since most of Sony's major studios are due for releasing their next game or have at least been working on ps5 games for years now. Sony also has swapped out some of their weaker ip's like Killzone and Ratchet & Clank for Horizon Zero Dawn and Spider-man and had one of the most successful reboots in gaming history with God of War. This puts Sony in a much better position to kick off next gen with a bang compared to when the ps4 came out. 



Azzanation said:
HollyGamer said:

Well both are great games because it was made for current gens , it will be different story  if those were made for Xbox 360 as well. 

A good game depends on the devs, not the hardware its on.

Did you forget Zelda BOTW was made on the WiiU.

I know that the devs are important but to say cross gen does not hold back the developing is a bit wrongly.

We do not only buy games from those devs that put in the extra effort but also from those with a lesser budget or a worse management so if an easier to develop for console could improve that, then it could be assumed that there will be more time being put into quality at least by some of them.

You can make a good game for the NES but to go a step further you might need better hardware.



sales2099 said:
HollyGamer said:

Cross gen is a lazy excuse while developer learning new stuff and sales department trying to milk last gen as much as then can . PERIOD, that's indisputable fact , a well known fact

Yes people don't buy next gen consoles in first couple years but it's not the case with Switch , PS4 , PS2, . I am not saying all game developer have to strife for next gen exclusives but at least first party shall be the one shows them and shows the difference what next gen is capable of. 

Call it what you like, it’s good for gamers who aren’t early adopters. Choice and options are not a bad thing...and if that’s the narrative you pushing I think that’s definitive proof you need a change of perspective. At the very least it’s selfish. 

If history taught us anything, no 1st party game developer showed what the hardware could really do in the first year. They all learning still. And the way I see it, if you want to show what next gen can do....a good example is a  Digital Foundry comparison video showing the differences between Halo Infinite on Xbox One vs Series X. The difference in FPS, resolution, textures, loading times and whatever else 343 can do will be apparent in said comparison videos. Mission accomplished, gamers will see an easy to digest way to show what next gen brings to the table. You making a mountain out of a anthill. 

Then you don't really expect much of a new gen. I expect new experiences and mechanics and new ways to play. Things not possible before. You expect the same as before but with more frames and pixels. Just go pc then.



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

eva01beserk said:

Im glad china is keeping PC Gaming alive with their free to play and/or esport. But As someone who boast PC master race and all, why brag about games that can be played in phones? Why not talk about where the big budget games are making all the money? Why not be honest and say Consoles are almost 50% biger market over all, and add to that the majority of PC gaming is free to play titles coming from asia? So yea, PC gaming is small compared to consoles.

Consoles includes multiple platforms, even handhelds from multiple manufacturers.

The PC is a single platform... And is still a larger platform than any single console.

So whilst collectively consoles are a larger market than the PC, the PC is still a larger market than any single console... And is still not "Small or insignificant". - Anyone who says that about a $35 Billion market is insane.

And yes, the Asian regions account for a big chunk of that, but that doesn't diminish the PC's market reach, because the Asian markets also account for a sizable chunk of the Playstation 4/Switch sales as well. Just ask Microsoft.




--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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LudicrousSpeed said:
HollyGamer said:

Cross gen is a lazy excuse while developer learning new stuff and sales department trying to milk last gen as much as then can . PERIOD, that's indisputable fact , a well known fact

Yes people don't buy next gen consoles in first couple years but it's not the case with Switch , PS4 , PS2, . I am not saying all game developer have to strife for next gen exclusives but at least first party shall be the one shows them and shows the difference what next gen is capable of. 

How would MS first party still not be taking advantage of next gen hardware? We’ve already given you an example in Horizon 2 of MS supporting next gen hardware AND releasing a game on previous hardware. There are plenty of other examples too, whether you want to think they qualify or not 😆

Of course it’s all moot because as countless games have shown throughout history, developers can still make whatever game they want and then alter it to fit weaker hardware. But either way, explain how you expect MS to sell $500-600 hardware with no next gen games 😆

Why i have hunch that you cannot differentiate between a cross gen games (Halo infinite), games that made for two version (Forza Horizon 2),  and also games that ported to low end (The Witcher 3 on Switch)  

So seem does not grap what the meaning of cross gen is.



Azzanation said:
HollyGamer said:

Yeah my mistakes , a typo. But then again Uncharted 4 are PS4 games and not Cross gen games

This gen in the middle of the generation has been a blast , not so much in the early PS4 or Xbox One days because it has many cross gen. The capability of the hardware were shown after 2 to 3 years after the consoles has been released . But there is exception like "The Witcher 3" which is exclusives to PS4/Xbox One.

Did i disappointed FF7 remakes and Cyber punk made for current gen? A little,  but did i regret buying of course no, because this games were made to optimize current gen and not next gen. I already satisfied with current gen, i just want to see something new that even better then Cyberpunk (The witcher 4 are now in planning) and FF 7 remake part two for next gen. 

Well glad you like FF7 and the upcoming Cyberpunk 2077. Cross gen games will be even better optimised because devs have more experience with the hardware.

My point is UC4 and TLOU2 look very far apart and they are on the same console. Both games have hardware restrictions but it doesn't downplay the games value.

I am not saying Cross gen games are bad nor it will have bad quality games, i am sure cross gen games (Halo infinite) will be masterpiece . But i am saying exclusive on next gen hardware are far far more important then telling consumer how good the spec or technical prowess of a machine is. Consumer don't understand Teraflop, SSD speed, IO speed, polygon count etc. Hell they don't even understand 120 fps, 60 fps. Probably some exception to resolution (because general consumer has been targeted by TV marketing lately). They just need some games that prove how new hardware are good at compared to old gen. 

Selling next gen consoles is not just about better resolution, and high frame rates (this are mid gen refresh message for Xbox One X and PS4 pro) New generation is more the that. 



Don't know what this guy means, but Witcher 3, Red Dead 2, Horizon or even Assassin's Creed are much bigger and much more detailed than Outer Worlds and are running just fine on current gen consoles. It is just a sorry excuse for the lack of time, money and talent.



Fragenstein said:
sales2099 said:

I want the best version too. That’s why I’m getting the Series X version. Others may not care as much so they get it for Xbox One. Again, choice and options is good for gamers. 

2 years is a long time? Lol this whole gen feels like a blur. All your examples of top exclusives fall outside the first 2 years of PS4. Glad you agree the first 2 years are just the practice years.

Backed yourself into a corner. Because you can’t list Ps4s early exclusives alongside greats like HZD, UC4, GOW, Spiderman. You gonna tell me Killzone Shadowfall, The Order and Drive Club deserve to stand next to those titles??? No you can’t....because the first 2 years are practice. Might as well make a scaled down version while they at it. 

If you want the best version then how can you not care if it will be cross gen with Xbox One? The ps4 might not have had great launch titles but that doesn't mean it's some kind of rule that the good stuff only starts coming out 2 years in. You have to look at the time lines of Sony's 1st party studios. When the ps4 came out, most of them just released a big game like The Last of US, GOW Ascension. Guerilla Games were doing Killzone (which was never that great a franchise to begin with) and Insomniac was still 3rd party, making Sunset Overdrive.

Next gen seems to be different since most of Sony's major studios are due for releasing their next game or have at least been working on ps5 games for years now. Sony also has swapped out some of their weaker ip's like Killzone and Ratchet & Clank for Horizon Zero Dawn and Spider-man and had one of the most successful reboots in gaming history with God of War. This puts Sony in a much better position to kick off next gen with a bang compared to when the ps4 came out. 

Until Sony officially announces these games I’m afraid it’s all speculation as to when they release. Doesn’t change the point I made about the first couple years of a gen. 

The best version is on Series X. I’m happy the game will get to be enjoyed by more people, even if it’s on Xbox One. As a Halo fan I want the franchise to grow. I’m sure the Series X version will be worth it. Digital Foundry comparison videos should more then show the next gen difference when it’s all said and done. 

Given how the first 2 years are just practice for devs of all consoles, this whole cross gen controversy is making a whole lot about nothing. I’m sure the quality will speak for itself. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

eva01beserk said:
sales2099 said:

Call it what you like, it’s good for gamers who aren’t early adopters. Choice and options are not a bad thing...and if that’s the narrative you pushing I think that’s definitive proof you need a change of perspective. At the very least it’s selfish. 

If history taught us anything, no 1st party game developer showed what the hardware could really do in the first year. They all learning still. And the way I see it, if you want to show what next gen can do....a good example is a  Digital Foundry comparison video showing the differences between Halo Infinite on Xbox One vs Series X. The difference in FPS, resolution, textures, loading times and whatever else 343 can do will be apparent in said comparison videos. Mission accomplished, gamers will see an easy to digest way to show what next gen brings to the table. You making a mountain out of a anthill. 

Then you don't really expect much of a new gen. I expect new experiences and mechanics and new ways to play. Things not possible before. You expect the same as before but with more frames and pixels. Just go pc then.

Your expectations don’t necessarily require cutting edge tech. Just a creative developer who has a great idea.

New IP is a new experience. New mechanics is just how you play the game, purely creative and not dependant on the tech. New ways to play...new twist on existing genres. Sounds great to me....all those can be done on current gen.

Things not possible before: Faster loading times for one, 4K 60 FPS standard. Accurate ray tracing. And there have been examples of games having features in next gen versions with past gen versions missing it due to limitations. 

See, you worry too much :)

Last edited by sales2099 - on 20 April 2020

Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles.