Forums - Gaming Discussion - Final Fantasy VII Remake Review Thread - Current 88 Metacritic / 89 Opencritic

Hynad said:
Vodacixi said:

We have this . And this. And... this. Just to name a few instances (I could be all day gathering quotes and interviews from developers and Square Enix themselves) in which it was said that the story, while introducing changes and expand upon the 1997 game, was going to keep the major plot intact and be faithful to it. So, there you have it.

From what I gather, you guys are so hyped for Final Fantasy VII Remake that you refuse to see what is going on. That's fine, but don't drag everyone else to your world of lies.

From one of your own link:

According to the head of the project with Tetsuya Nomura, the challenge is to create something that can be designed “thanks to the technological power and the quality of entertainment provided by the current generation”, all without forgetting “try to capture elements of the original with respect". According to his words, those who played it at the time will feel "new but familiar", while those less versed in the saga "will experience the charm of Final Fantasy VII, which thrills the hearts of many." Of course, with the latest technology.

Exactly as I pointed out in my earlier comment. Wishes.

I live in the real world.  Not the one in which everything has to be the way I want it in my head. 

I’m sorry, but I knew for a long time they were going to make the journey to many events be different, while retaining the core aspects of the game’s story. 

I knew they weren’t going to do a complete copy/paste of the original and call it a day. 

It is because I knew what to expect that I am not too concerned by the changes made. If I wanted to replay the exact same game, I already have it in many of my gaming systems.

I hope they have a good plan for Part 2 to make it all worthwhile and a compelling continuation. But until I see how they handle it, I am not going to call foul or complain about it everywhere I can and try to change the definition of the word remake.

I understand a lot of people are allergic to change. 

Me? It depends. But as for this game, again, as long as they get the story to where it needs to go, I don’t care if they change the journey and make things new and surprising. 

“The reunion at hand may bring joy, it may bring fear.
But let us embrace whatever it brings.”

Emmm... have you read the whole quote you copy/pasted? "thanks to the technological power and the quality of entertainment provided by the current generation”, all without forgetting “try to capture elements of the original with respect". That, together with the other quotes I provided you and the hundreds of other interviews and declarations out there... Makes people think that there are going to be changes and additions thanks to what it's possible with today's technology, both in the gameplay and story department, but whathever those are, they are going to be faitful and respectful with the original story. We knew it was not gonna be a 1:1 remake. Most remakes of this level aren't. What we didn't know and they NEVER suggested, was that it was gonna be a reboot.

I provided evidence. And you are still in denial. I have nothing more to say to you. Be happy with your reboot of the original FF VII story.



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Runa216 said:
EnricoPallazzo said:
The last of us PS4 - REMASTER - same assets, story, music, pacing, guns, caracters, nothing relevant added. Just more quality on everything like textures, fps, loading times. Its almos like playing the same game but this time on your friends powerfull pc

Final Fantasy 12 PS4. Still a REMASTER, But with a few added elements, maybe expanded, a few rweaks to the combat system. Like playing the game on your friends powerful pc but the bought the goty edition with additional content.

RE2/Shadow of the colossus/FF7 - REMAKE - the game is 100% built from the ground. Some things need to change to adapt to new technology, new stuff will be added, some will be cut, there will be new mechanics, combat system etc. But you keep the core game. Main caracters, story, pivotal moments, how you get from point A to point B. Its still the same game but modernized.

God of War 2018/RE7/Modern Warefare 2019- its a REBOOT - you can even connect it with the main games, but everything is new. Past games may help with story and some background, but for all the rest you are free to go crazy. No strings attached. You can even ignore old games and there will be no problem. You start anew.

The difference with FF7? It should be a remake, but they drastically changed the story. Its on a new universe/dimension and this opens a pandora box to change a LOT of stuff in game, and of course it was done in purpose to tell the story in a different way. It will still be connected to the events of original FF7, but there is no obligation to follow it. Maybe aeris wont die. Maybe cloud wont go in a coma. A lot of time travel/dimension will be included. Even the objective may be different. Not save earth from seph's comet but maybe reconnect the dimensions and fighting some KH boss in the end. Hell this may be even be happenning inside that nonsense mess that is KH universe.

So FF7 sits between a remake, a reboot and a sequel for me. Hard to define. Its more like FF7-2 and not a remake, and this is NOT what I was expecting.

The bad? Im really disappointed and will buy it one it goes into super promotion
The good? Its going to be all new and Im really curious to see what will be releasing following it, where they can take this paralel dimension story in this amazing world. If they release the sequels.

It's almost like...like the concept of remake and remaster and reboot are all on a spectrum and not binary. IT's almost like, as the world turns, things change and new ideas are brought forth and expanded upon. IT's almost like, not everything needs to neatly fit into previously existing definitions. It's almost like...and get this...the world is complicated and nuanced and most everything should be approached in a slightly different way that suits the situation and is thematically appropriate.

Things change, that's a fact of reality. and with Gaming as a medium constantly evolving and updating and trying out new things, the backlash to this is absolutely archaic. Hilariously outdated. Quaintly antiquated. 

My point is, it's actually immature and shortsighted to be tHIS upset about this. Not only is it rather ignorant to assume a REMAKE is going to be the exact same as the original, but everything in this game's built-up history has indicated that it's going to be a retelling of the same basic story. New rules, new format, new combat system, tweaked storey, changed features, etc. Adaptation requires change, that's creative writing 101. The only thing that's left to determine, from the stance of someone not trapped by the tradition of what came before, is whether or not the changes are GOOD! 

All I see is a bunch of people whining about an adaptation making changes, much like when people complained about Ciri maybe not being white or other equally nonsensical public outrages over nothing. Just a bunch of whiny brats who find it personally insulting that a 20+ years later remake of a game they love wasn't exactly the same, or same enough for their personal guidelines. Again, at the very least, wait until the actual damn game is out and you've played through it to determine if these changes work for you or not. Who knows, it might genuinely be a better story, with better character development, and more reasonable explanations. Who knows? you don't. you can't. Not yet. 

Due to your lack of respect for other's people opinions, your lack of understanding about what people are actually complaining, and most of all, and your sense of self entitlement I won't even continue the discussion with you, you have a nice day sir.



Immersiveunreality said:
Vodacixi said:

I mean, if you don't want to use the correct word that has been used for decades to define a new take on a certain IP that resets the original story (reboot)... you are free to do so. But don't try to argue with other people about it. Because you are wrong. If every freaking remake in the history of remakes has been done in a certain way... then if there comes a product that does not adjust to those traits, but to those of another type of recreation (a reboot... maybe a reimagining if we want to stretch things), then that thing by definition is NOT A REMAKE. It's a reboot.

The definition you want us to believe is what you personally think the definition is by cherrypicking examples that do not matter.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

''A reboot is a way to reuse the concept behind a game/movie/etc. (backstory, gameplay mechanics, some characters/locations/plotlines) but otherwise rewrite the entire plot and characters. ... Typically, it means that all existing "canon" for the setting and characters is wiped clean''

''It has been described as a way to "rebrand"[3] or "restart an entertainment universe that has already been established".[1] Another definition of a reboot is a remake which is part of an established film series or other media franchise.[4] The term has been criticised for being a vague and "confusing"[5] " buzzword",[6] and a neologism for remake,[7][8] a concept which has been losing popularity in the 2010s''

''In general, the simplest way to remember the difference between a reboot and a remake is to remember that for a film to be a reboot, it should be resetting a chronology that's been established over multiple films. A remake is concerned with updating a single film, sometimes slavishly''

''With video games there are clear cut reboots with games like 2013's Tomb Raider, 2003's Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time, and 2004's Ninja Gaiden (even though I don't believe it was marketed as a reboot) where both the gameplay and storyline saw revamps.

But then we head a murkier area where gameplay more or less gets rebooted, but there is still storyline continuity.

Take last year's Resident Evil VII where they revamped the gameplay and while it is still within the same storyline continuity, the setting is very much self-contained. Aside from a few nods to show that it takes place within the same universe, it pretty much can stand alone without any knowledge of prior titles (normally the goal of a reboot to attract new audiences).''

Dictonary:

verb (used with object)

to restart (a computer) by loading the operating system; boot again.
to produce a distinctly new version of (an established media franchise, as a film, TV show, video game, or comic book):The studio is rebooting Spider-Man.
to make a change in (something) in order to establish a new beginning:She’s rebooting her career.Lower interest rates are intended to reboot the economy.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FF7 remake still sticks close enough to the path the original took to be considered a remake and even reboot is kind of a branched off word for remake but by distinction FF7 is STILL a remake.

''In general, the simplest way to remember the difference between a reboot and a remake is to remember that for a film to be a reboot, it should be resetting a chronology that's been established over multiple films. A remake is concerned with updating a single film, sometimes slavishly''

So... just what they did with this game. They reset the original chronology that was stablished in the original game. Also, you have to take into account that this is the first act of this project. They have reset the story in the end of the first arc. Just like many reboots do (Terminator Genysis). The fact that this first part follows for most of its duration its original counterpart doesn't mean shit because this is just the beginning. They have stablished the reset, and that reset is gonna affect absolutely everything that comes after it, completely transforming FF VII story as we know. By your own definition, this is a reboot.

Last edited by Vodacixi - on 08 April 2020

EnricoPallazzo said:
Runa216 said:

It's almost like...like the concept of remake and remaster and reboot are all on a spectrum and not binary. IT's almost like, as the world turns, things change and new ideas are brought forth and expanded upon. IT's almost like, not everything needs to neatly fit into previously existing definitions. It's almost like...and get this...the world is complicated and nuanced and most everything should be approached in a slightly different way that suits the situation and is thematically appropriate.

Things change, that's a fact of reality. and with Gaming as a medium constantly evolving and updating and trying out new things, the backlash to this is absolutely archaic. Hilariously outdated. Quaintly antiquated. 

My point is, it's actually immature and shortsighted to be tHIS upset about this. Not only is it rather ignorant to assume a REMAKE is going to be the exact same as the original, but everything in this game's built-up history has indicated that it's going to be a retelling of the same basic story. New rules, new format, new combat system, tweaked storey, changed features, etc. Adaptation requires change, that's creative writing 101. The only thing that's left to determine, from the stance of someone not trapped by the tradition of what came before, is whether or not the changes are GOOD! 

All I see is a bunch of people whining about an adaptation making changes, much like when people complained about Ciri maybe not being white or other equally nonsensical public outrages over nothing. Just a bunch of whiny brats who find it personally insulting that a 20+ years later remake of a game they love wasn't exactly the same, or same enough for their personal guidelines. Again, at the very least, wait until the actual damn game is out and you've played through it to determine if these changes work for you or not. Who knows, it might genuinely be a better story, with better character development, and more reasonable explanations. Who knows? you don't. you can't. Not yet. 

Due to your lack of respect for other's people opinions, your lack of understanding about what people are actually complaining, and most of all, and your sense of self entitlement I won't even continue the discussion with you, you have a nice day sir.

IT's probably for the best. I'm right about this, people are being stupid and entitled, and I'm kind of sick of people not understanding the core pillars of how adaptation works or are willfully ignorant of the fact that things are more nuanced than some people like to assume. This doesn't fit into one exclusive category, and even if it did, the category is up for some creative interpretation. 

the fact that some people are genuinely angry that THEIR interpretation of 'remake' doesn't fit with Square-Enix's vision of how they're remaking the game is hilarious to me. 

In most debates, there are right and wrong answers. there are better arguments and worse arguments. This is one of those times. The people being upset about changes to a game they haven't played yet that was always meant to be a reimagining of sorts to a classic game is an example of gamer entitlement and outrage culture. At the very least, none of your complaints hold even the slightest bit of weight until you've played the game. Until then, it's all conjecture and hearsay and extrapolation. Anyone can misinterpret something they don't fully comprehend in order to be upset about it. That's very common (too common), but that doesn't make it right. 



I got it all, baby! 

PS4, Switch, WiiU, XBO, PC
Vita, 3DS, Android

Top 6 this generation: 
Bloodborne, Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice, God of War, The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, Dark Souls III, Red Dead Redemption II

Vodacixi said:
Immersiveunreality said:

The definition you want us to believe is what you personally think the definition is by cherrypicking examples that do not matter.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

''A reboot is a way to reuse the concept behind a game/movie/etc. (backstory, gameplay mechanics, some characters/locations/plotlines) but otherwise rewrite the entire plot and characters. ... Typically, it means that all existing "canon" for the setting and characters is wiped clean''

''It has been described as a way to "rebrand"[3] or "restart an entertainment universe that has already been established".[1] Another definition of a reboot is a remake which is part of an established film series or other media franchise.[4] The term has been criticised for being a vague and "confusing"[5] " buzzword",[6] and a neologism for remake,[7][8] a concept which has been losing popularity in the 2010s''

''In general, the simplest way to remember the difference between a reboot and a remake is to remember that for a film to be a reboot, it should be resetting a chronology that's been established over multiple films. A remake is concerned with updating a single film, sometimes slavishly''

''With video games there are clear cut reboots with games like 2013's Tomb Raider, 2003's Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time, and 2004's Ninja Gaiden (even though I don't believe it was marketed as a reboot) where both the gameplay and storyline saw revamps.

But then we head a murkier area where gameplay more or less gets rebooted, but there is still storyline continuity.

Take last year's Resident Evil VII where they revamped the gameplay and while it is still within the same storyline continuity, the setting is very much self-contained. Aside from a few nods to show that it takes place within the same universe, it pretty much can stand alone without any knowledge of prior titles (normally the goal of a reboot to attract new audiences).''

Dictonary:

verb (used with object)

to restart (a computer) by loading the operating system; boot again.
to produce a distinctly new version of (an established media franchise, as a film, TV show, video game, or comic book):The studio is rebooting Spider-Man.
to make a change in (something) in order to establish a new beginning:She’s rebooting her career.Lower interest rates are intended to reboot the economy.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FF7 remake still sticks close enough to the path the original took to be considered a remake and even reboot is kind of a branched off word for remake but by distinction FF7 is STILL a remake.

''In general, the simplest way to remember the difference between a reboot and a remake is to remember that for a film to be a reboot, it should be resetting a chronology that's been established over multiple films. A remake is concerned with updating a single film, sometimes slavishly''

So... just what they did with this game. They reset the original chronology that was stablished in the original game. Also, you have to take into account that this is the first act of this project. They have reset the story in the end of the first arc. Just like many reboots do (Terminator Genysis). The fact that this first part follows for most of its duration its original counterpart doesn't mean shit because this is just the beginning. They have stablished the reset, and that reset is gonna affect absolutely everything that comes before it, completely transforming FF VII story as we know. By your own definition, this is a reboot.

Yep, that's the main thing. It's pretty clear this is just an introduction for a lot of other changes to come. Which to tell you the truth I really don't care, Square is 100% free to do what they want. The original game is still there and since I have a physical copy I can play it whenever I want. But for me that's not what was advertised. A story in another dimension/timeline with very important plot things changed, including characters, is not what was advertised, at least for me. So I'm glad I did not preorder as usual, and now I can set up my expectations correctly about what is the product. Time will tell if people will be happy with the changes.

To be honest, as fan, what I really wanted was an updated version of the original game, like a PC version with a lot of mods. The Ps4 HD version is lazy, they didn't even included hands to the characters.  



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Wyrdness said:
deskpro2k3 said:

Final Fantasy XIV

FFXIV is not a remake dude come on man this is an absurd reach trying to pass off FFXIV as a remake is like saying No Man's Sky is a remake as well.

It is a Remake dude. A remake means to make something again, which they did in Version 2.0. It features a new game engine, improved server infrastructure, revamped gameplay, interface, and story. It kept all the main characters, locations, enemies, and villains. In addition to adding new locations, and new characters. etc

pikashoe said:
deskpro2k3 said:

My points was directed towards what he addressed in his post.. How about you not interject yourself in a discussion that does not address the talking points.

I don't know how many times I have to tell people like you over and over again that the story was expanded upon. People are just unhappy because of that single none issue.

My initial comment admittedly starts off a bit too aggressive, I'm not trying to start an argument with you, but you are misinterpreting what people are saying and it's making you look bad. it's cool that you are fine with the story getting completely changed but I think the people that are unhappy have completely valid reasons to be angry about these massive changes. 

It's a nonissue. They got themselves to blame.

HoangNhatAnh said:
deskpro2k3 said:

Final Fantasy XIV

Ah, an update port? Now it somehow is a remake because you said so. WOW

You're joking right?

Last edited by deskpro2k3 - on 08 April 2020

deskpro2k3 said:

pikashoe said:

My initial comment admittedly starts off a bit too aggressive, I'm not trying to start an argument with you, but you are misinterpreting what people are saying and it's making you look bad. it's cool that you are fine with the story getting completely changed but I think the people that are unhappy have completely valid reasons to be angry about these massive changes. 

It's a nonissue. They got themselves to blame.

How is it a non issue, have you seen what they've changed. They aren't just adding to the story they've changed it almost completely.

Your arrogance is astounding.



deskpro2k3 said:

It is a Remake dude. A remake means to make something again, which they did in Version 2.0. It features a new game engine, improved server infrastructure, revamped gameplay, interface, and story. It kept all the main characters, locations, enemies, and villains. In addition to adding new locations, and new characters. etc

No dude a remake is to take something old and remake it from the ground up this was never the case with FFXIV and that is an objective fact what happened with FFXIV is the same thing that is happening with Anthem where they botched the project and had to do major fixes in many areas that is not a remake even with all the different definitions people have here this is far too big a reach on your part it's a massive moving of goal posts. I know someone had played the original version it had hardly any story or content in it the game was literally a log in and there's nothing to do affair what you class as changes were actually fixes and additions.

Under your logic here the likes of No Man's Sky and Phantasy Star Universe are remakes come on man be serious here.



Wyrdness said:
deskpro2k3 said:

It is a Remake dude. A remake means to make something again, which they did in Version 2.0. It features a new game engine, improved server infrastructure, revamped gameplay, interface, and story. It kept all the main characters, locations, enemies, and villains. In addition to adding new locations, and new characters. etc

No dude a remake is to take something old and remake it from the ground up this was never the case with FFXIV and that is an objective fact what happened with FFXIV is the same thing that is happening with Anthem where they botched the project and had to do major fixes in many areas that is not a remake even with all the different definitions people have here this is far too big a reach on your part it's a massive moving of goal posts. I know someone had played the original version it had hardly any story or content in it the game was literally a log in and there's nothing to do affair what you class as changes were actually fixes and additions.

:FACEPALM: No it's not the same thing. Did you not read what I posted?? This is no goal post moving bullshit. Someone asked a question and I answered it. and it turns out they don't like the answer because it doesn't fit with their mindset. You know what, I've played FFXIV 1.0 and the beta, I played a lot of it, I'm a Legacy player as a matter of damn fact.. I even made the OFFICIAL FINAL FANTASY XIV THREAD years ago in here.. So don't tell me I'm moving goal post...

I give up, believe whatever the hell you damn want. There ain't no stopping this FFVII Remake train.

Last edited by deskpro2k3 - on 08 April 2020

deskpro2k3 said:

:FACEPALM: No it's not the same thing. Did you not read what I posted?? This is no goal post moving bullshit. Someone asked a question and I answered it. and it turns out they don't like the answer because it doesn't fit with their mindset. You know what, I've played FFXIV 1.0 and the beta, I played a lot of it, I'm a Legacy player as a matter of damn fact.. I even made the OFFICIAL FINAL FANTASY XIV THREAD years ago in here.. So don't tell me I'm moving goal post...

I give up, believe whatever the hell you damn want. There ain't no stopping this FFVII Remake train.

The are goalposts being moved because because the definition of remake doesn't fit FFXIV in any way, shape or form unless you decide to cherry pick parameters so it can.

It's not a case they don't like your answer because it doesn't fit their mind set it's the fact that the answer itself is so obviously objectively wrong that it's hard to believe the person was being serious it would be like classing PC versions of any game as a remaster because they can be played at higher resolutions than consoles that's the type of logic you're trying to bring here.