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Forums - Politics Discussion - Are you OK with games becoming more Politically Correct?

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Is PC ruining gaming?

Yes 19 31.67%
 
No, you're just being silly! Ah 41 68.33%
 
Total:60

Depends. I'll have to see an actual good example first.

You seem more offended that Mortal kombat was making fun of Trump. That was political humor not political correctness.
"it's stupid! I don't need games like Mortal Kombat 11 to tell me that Donald Trump is evil, that scantally dressed women is sexist or that racism is bad = white people are bad, Jax goes back in time to stop slavery from happening. "

Is eight levels of yikes. If you are offended at a video game doing a "what if" scenario about ending slavery - you are the problem. You basically don't want to change and you're tired of getting called out on your shit for being shit.

And the atlus thing is the worst example. The original comments added nothing to the game. It didn't bother me. It did bother other people - and for good reasons. So they changed those lines. It still doesn't bother me. And now less people are bothered. It's a net positive.

You can't argue "its just a game" one way, but ignore it another. If it was "just a game" as an argument for leaving it, then it is "just a game" is a defense for changing it.

Also the censoring of small children that may or may not be minors is more about selling the game. If you show it, then the ratings go high. Making it harder to sell. So game developers have two choices. They can try and sell it their way - and stores can say no. Or they can adapt.

It is the same thing for really anything. If you make a painting congrats - other places aren't forced to hang it, show it, or sell it.



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I reject your hypothesis.

I don't see PC culture affecting the video game industry in any substantially negative way.
There is a push for more diverse protagonists, but it seems to be the wish of the video game developers themselves. And it is a breath of fresh air, really.

I also don't get the idea that video games are supposed to be fun.
They can also be thought provoking and emotional. And touch on a range of different feelings.
If anything, I think too few video games have a political angle. There is a lot of unused potential in regards to this.
But of course, if you are exploring politics you need to back it up with good writing to make it work, but that is the case for any writing. I think this is often a problem in video games and mainstream cinema.

I find it weird that you mention GTA 5 as a game that got bad reviews, because it went against some people's political biases. GTA 5 is one of the top 5 best reviewed and best selling games of all time, I think it just proves how small and insignificant PC culture really is.
There is more talk about PC culture than there is actual PC culture.

But I totally agree with you on the censorship of games though. That is truly stupid. I don't know what Sony is trying to achieve in this regard.



Hiku said:
Nautilus said:

But it's a game.

Then you should have no problem with any of this, because it's a game.

Games used to be just games decades ago. Today it's more apt to call many of them interactive entertainment. A medium for expressing art the same as any movie or book.
And Persona 5 in particular deals with some very real and relatable themes such as criminal injustice, suicide, sexual abuse, etc.

Nautilus said:

And in the end, it's up to the developers to do what they want. I played the original, and didn't think that scene to be offensive in the least.I actually thought it to be quite funny.Why? Because it happened to me.I have already been "bothered" by trans standing on the street harrasing me saying "Come have a baby with me" or "Hey there you sexy". Whether what happened in the game and with me is the exception or not, it does happen, while it made me unconfortable, I don't find it offensive.If a game is allowed to portrait harrasment by white or black people, then a game is also allowed to portrait the same topic but with homosexual people.

And that comes from one of the most secure and safe country in the world.

Who's to say this isn't what the developer wants? Humans often make mistakes that they learn from afterwards.
If someone grew up only knowing the jokes from variety shows then they may not understand how harmful this can be to some people until you hear from them.

The problem is when people only think of themselves, or from their perspective. And prioritize their entertainment over other people's well being.

Nautilus said:

If you want to approach a topic, you WILL end up ratlling one group or another.The problem, personally speaking, is if a topic is made the whole subject of the game AND it's done in poor taste and/or innapropriate.An extreme example: Molestation.If a game had such topic as the main one, and in the game lore it was done in a way that it was ok and it repeatedly kept showing it to you, then that's fucked up.

But if harrashment and everything like that is a subject that is ok to be shown, then it should be ok to show harrasment comming from everywhere,Be it from white people, black people, man, women and yes, gay people.

Some of the most profound, memorable and thought provoking things I've experienced in games have come from things that were not the main focus.
So that a theme has to be the whole subject to be meaningful is simply not true.

It may be that way to you. And that's fine. But you can't tell others that they can only value their experience if it fits your criteria.
That again goes back to the problem of only looking at it from your own perspective.

Bolded: But the same couldn't be apllied to you?Aren't you also judging me based on your own criteria and the way you view life?

The opposite of everything you said could also be true in this case. Like you said, "That again goes to the problem of only looking at it from your own perspective"

Who's to say this is what the developer wants?

Then you also should have no problem with what the original did, because it's a game.

The problem I have with all of this is that usually the people who defend this kind of thing, for games to be more "inclusive"(whatever the hell that means) is that they defend the topics they are interested in, and only these topics.Let me give you a controversial example: Usually games need to have a villain.The story simply demands it.More often than not, that villain is a mega corporation that is doing some evil shit to the enviroment or to the people.

So I ask you again: According to you, and what you just said("The problem is when people only think of themselves, or from their perspective. And prioritize their entertainment over other people's well being."), wouldn't making a company evil and giving it a bad image be ... bad?Because as much as a company CAN be evil and do evil shit, people also can.And as people can do good things for humanity and the enviroment, the companies can also be good.They give jobs to people, donate their money to charities, develop amazing new technologies either for our own entertainment or to cure a disease. So wouldn't it be the same thing badmouthing them as badmouthing gay people, as you just pointed out, would be counter productive to people well being or in this case, the companies well being?Because if said company goes bankrupt or just has a bad year(in terms of financials) people are going to lose their jobs, and in more extreme cases might not have the money to buy food or medicine.

What I mean is, if you end up respecting everyone opinion or perspective on every single topic, you end up with a cartoon like Barney: Everyone is happy, but the game is as deep as a puddle, and as varied .... as nothing.(couldn't come up with a good comparison lol)

Any kind of story that you want to tell, ANY kind, will end up hurting someone feeling.The difference is how many people you might end up insulting, and that's what matters in the end, in terms of backlash and whatnot.

And as I said, people will defend what interests them. So I am defending something I don't approve, which is this.Dosen't mean I don't have respect for gay people.I want my entertainment to be entertaining, but at the same time I imagine, or at the very least I hope, people have the basic neurological functions to distinguish between reality and fiction. The same way that someone wouldn't go out shooting people because they played a game about war, I don't expect people to start hating gays just because there was one game that made one joke about gays being " annoying"(let's just leave it at that), the same way that any human being, man or woman, can be.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

sundin13 said:
Nautilus said:

I don't think they are destroying either.It's extremely annoying at best, and only a few rare exceptions that come to the point of actually harming it(for me one such example would be timespinner), but it's still there, and it's still annoying.

Don't get me wrong: as long as people have creative freedom to do whatever they want, there will always be one topic or another that you will be consider offensive or innapropriate.I think the same applies to this case with Persona 5 Royal.In my perception, I didn't find it offensive, and I found that funny.I just don't like the hypocrisy of demanding a subject to be removed from a game because you think it's offensive (the gay scene in Persona 5) while you are ok with other subjects being left in a game, that may be found offensive by other people, like making fun of Trump for example, since making fun of Trump usually(USUALLY) means making fun of the people who support him.That's just an example of political nature.I'm fairly sure there are many of religious nature, of race nature and so on.

And like the example you gave: We are judging a culture based on our own culture merits. More than that, the culture of a country that's more civilized, safe and probably advanced than most if not all western countries.

In the end, I feel like everyone will end up defending what they believe in.I dont find this offensive, that's why I said that removing the scene from Persona 5 is censoring and something that shouldn't have done.If the same was done to the Trump example I gave, in which the developer removed the insult to Trump from the game, I bet there would be people around the internet screaming "censorship!" or "cowards!".

In the end it's a matter of perspective.Personally, yes it is censorship and yes, shouldn't have been removed.It was only removed because of the insistance of a minority.And thus it proves the OP point, even if it only something minor.

I don't know man, rape being bad seems like a pretty universal thing to me...

Anyways, let me ask you this: If there was a scene in a game that was poorly written (for example, the characters aren't acting like they should without any good reason, or the scene just didn't make sense in the story) and that scene was rewritten in a remake, would you complain?

The japanese seem to be pretty able to separate fiction from reality.You don't see them raping people because of their animes.That's what I mean.Just because someone represents something in a game, dosen't mean that humanity dosen't have the brain power to understand the right from wrong.

About your question: Yeah, absolutely.But in Persona case, personally, I don't think it was out of place because in my experience, that happens in real life.And I respect you guys for defending your point of view.But I'm just defending mine.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

Shadow1980 said:
Not necessarily.

I do think we could use more games with progressive-minded viewpoints in the stories, with better representation among lead protagonists. More women. More non-whites. More LGBT people. And, as TV Tropes would put it, some anvils need to be dropped. Slavery, oppression, bigotry, authoritarianism, needless war, and environmental destruction are bad, and I think if someone wants to make a game with a story that speaks those opinions and addresses them, either through allegory or something a bit more in-your-face, then they ought to. "Get woke, go broke" is a load of bullshit, as we've had plenty of obviously "woke" fiction over the decades long before that neologism became a cliched meme and yet have attained massive mainstream success (Star Trek was always woke as hell, yet here we are 50+ years later and it's still popular and relevant). Art is inherently political even when it's neither obvious nor intentional, and creative types to tend to lean more leftward as a whole, and that's going to be reflected in entertainment media. Video games ought to be no different.

That being said, I also think there's nothing inherently wrong with fanservice-filled titles geared towards men. Games filled with prurient content like Dead or Alive or Senran Kagura have a right to exist without being ran off the market or being watered down to avoid offending people. Humans are sexual creatures by nature, we all have urges and kinks, and we all want to be titillated whether we admit it or not. Are games filled with scantily-clad women sexist? Yeah, I'd say that's hard to argue against. But they should stand or fall on their own merits. Let the market decide. Such content will cease to be produced when there's insufficient demand to make them viable products, and not a moment before.

TL;DR: Gaming ought to be more than a testosterone-clogged boys' club and ought to have more material that pisses off right-wingers, but it's also fine if games still get made for young males in mind, full of T&A and 80s action movie machismo. There's room for more than one target audience. And nobody has a right to go through life without being subjected to stuff that offends their sensibilities, whether their politics lean left or right.

This is basically what I am saying. Games should be anything they like, and shouldn't always cater to a single agenda.If someone wants to do something, just do it.

In the end, gamers will vote with their wallets.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

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The developers who do that usually happen to be the same ones who don't know how to make a good game, so they are looking for other ways to make their game meaningful.

Am I bothered by bad games getting worse? Not really, because I wouldn't be interested in playing bad games to begin with.



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A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Shipments

Nautilus said:
sundin13 said:

I don't know man, rape being bad seems like a pretty universal thing to me...

Anyways, let me ask you this: If there was a scene in a game that was poorly written (for example, the characters aren't acting like they should without any good reason, or the scene just didn't make sense in the story) and that scene was rewritten in a remake, would you complain?

The japanese seem to be pretty able to separate fiction from reality.You don't see them raping people because of their animes.That's what I mean.Just because someone represents something in a game, dosen't mean that humanity dosen't have the brain power to understand the right from wrong.

About your question: Yeah, absolutely.But in Persona case, personally, I don't think it was out of place because in my experience, that happens in real life.And I respect you guys for defending your point of view.But I'm just defending mine.

I mean, first of all, sexual assault and mistreatment of women are both pretty big problems in Japan, but even if they weren't the issue isn't that someone might get raped in real life. The issue is two-fold: One is the propagation of attitudes towards rape and sexual assault, and the second is the in universe effects of generally weakening the characters and being a moment which may take readers out of the story because of poor characterization and poor attempts at humor.

As for my question, again, the issue is not the fact that the game portrayed something, the issue is how it was portrayed. You continue to exclusively speak about what is being portrayed, but that entirely misses the point.

I would also like to bring up something you said to someone else in this thread:

"Any kind of story that you want to tell, ANY kind, will end up hurting someone feeling.The difference is how many people you might end up insulting, and that's what matters in the end, in terms of backlash and whatnot."

I don't think this is anywhere close to being true. I don't think there is any CEO who plays FF7 and is personally offended because Shinra is evil...



I'm not ok with it. Not political correctness in and of itself. But the way they forcefully cram it in everywhere, like just to give the list a checkmark. It doesn't feel more diverse. It feels more mainstreamlined and dull than ever, blurring unique character and counter acting artistic freedom.



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sundin13 said:
Nautilus said:

The japanese seem to be pretty able to separate fiction from reality.You don't see them raping people because of their animes.That's what I mean.Just because someone represents something in a game, dosen't mean that humanity dosen't have the brain power to understand the right from wrong.

About your question: Yeah, absolutely.But in Persona case, personally, I don't think it was out of place because in my experience, that happens in real life.And I respect you guys for defending your point of view.But I'm just defending mine.

I mean, first of all, sexual assault and mistreatment of women are both pretty big problems in Japan, but even if they weren't the issue isn't that someone might get raped in real life. The issue is two-fold: One is the propagation of attitudes towards rape and sexual assault, and the second is the in universe effects of generally weakening the characters and being a moment which may take readers out of the story because of poor characterization and poor attempts at humor.

As for my question, again, the issue is not the fact that the game portrayed something, the issue is how it was portrayed. You continue to exclusively speak about what is being portrayed, but that entirely misses the point.

I would also like to bring up something you said to someone else in this thread:

"Any kind of story that you want to tell, ANY kind, will end up hurting someone feeling.The difference is how many people you might end up insulting, and that's what matters in the end, in terms of backlash and whatnot."

I don't think this is anywhere close to being true. I don't think there is any CEO who plays FF7 and is personally offended because Shinra is evil...

Bolded: That's just bad story telling.Whether they "charachterize" someone bad or not, bad story telling is bad story telling, no matter what politics or opinion one might have.

About your last sentence: Then why should someone be offended by something done in a game then?That my problem! You dont see a CEO being offended by Shinra being evil because you dont care about what the CEO thinks.But when it comes to something you care about, for example how hamburguers are displayed on the screen, then you start caring.

The same way that some people simply have issue with woman having big boobs and being sexy in games, but having nothing to say about the men in the same game being super muscular, viril and handsome. You won't bat an eye on a topic that dosen't offend you.That's my point.

What I mean, in the end, is that all this nonsense about my group or my subject not being well represented in games is that I dont want it to influence the game quality in the end.I dont care if the protagonist is male, female, trans, gay, a dog, a cat or an alien, as long as the developer cares about telling a good story more than he cares about passing his own agenda.Im assuming people are smart enough to understand the difference between reality and fiction.

Im not a fan of the censor they did in Persona 5 Royal, but at the same time is something so minor that it won't even come close to stopping myself from recommending what seems to be the better version of the game.It's just that I don't and will never approve this sort of thing just because someone dosen't like how someone was portrayed.

And about the how: Like I already answered you before, I don't have an issue, because that already happened with me before.I found it quite funny actually.So in my view, it's not like they were lying.And it's fiction, not that I would be insulted by that even if it wasn't realistic.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

JRPGfan said:


We can accept "super human" beings, with un-imaginable powers.... because its just fantasy.
But buff people? nah thats unrealistic and doesnt reflect something humanly possible.

These are fictional characters, why wouldnt they be buff or sexy?

People that read the comics probably enjoy that aspect.
I bet a "fat batman" comic series, wouldnt sell as much (also suddenly, his inhuman and seemingly unending endurance, and him jumping around on buildings, and flying up them with a grappling hook, makes much less sense).

You ever see any of those parcour jumping people?
Their all thin, muscular people, because you just cant be a fat ass and do that sort of stuff.
Also if your some "fantastical fighter" muscles play a part..... theres no way around it, usually the bigger more musular person wins a fight (in the real world). Why would a comic be differnt?

Oh that's just the tip of the safe-space iceberg:

 

In the Comic books industry, writers have gone full on insane, in regards to treating their customers with dignity and respect. It's no longer about wanting people to buy their comics, it's about realising how "bad" said customers are for not supporting their views and eating the shit they throw out.

I took to twitter to see just how bad it was and hoo boy, plenty of Marvel writers just straight up treating customers like dogshit, insulting them, telling them to fuck off and die etc. I remember when Total biscuit got shit for his cancer remark, years before he got Cancer and died, yet he got shit for it, got shit on when he died, and yet these writers are completely getting away with acting like man-children, and general pieces of shit themselves, and Disney and Marvel are doing nowt about it.

Also doesn't help that the comic book publishers are doing very little to offset the situation the retail bookstores are in. I swear that industry is going to full on collapse in the next few years, and writers/pubs have themselves to blame.



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