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Forums - Politics Discussion - Are you OK with games becoming more Politically Correct?

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Is PC ruining gaming?

Yes 19 31.67%
 
No, you're just being silly! Ah 41 68.33%
 
Total:60

In before people getting upset over silly things like nerfed boob physics



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JRPGfan said:
Chazore said:
It's not exactly ruining game, but comic books on the other hand...



We can accept "super human" beings, with un-imaginable powers.... because its just fantasy.
But buff people? nah thats unrealistic and doesnt reflect something humanly possible.

In this screenshot you providing: "This is a parody." So, apparently you are unfunny.



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Nautilus said:

But it's a game. And in the end, it's up to the developers to do what they want.I played the original, and didn't think that scene to be offensive in the least.I actually thought it to be quite funny.Why? Because it happened to me.I have already been "bothered" by trans standing on the street harrasing me saying "Come have a baby with me" or "Hey there you sexy". Whether what happened in the game and with me is the exception or not, it does happen, while it made me unconfortable, I don't find it offensive.If a game is allowed to portrait harrasment by white or black people, then a game is also allowed to portrait the same topic but with homosexual people.

And that comes from one of the most secure and safe country in the world.

If you want to approach a topic, you WILL end up ratlling one group or another.The problem, personally speaking, is if a topic is made the whole subject of the game AND it's done in poor taste and/or innapropriate.An extreme example: Molestation.If a game had such topic as the main one, and in the game lore it was done in a way that it was ok and it repeatedly kept showing it to you, then that's fucked up.

But if harrashment and everything like that is a subject that is ok to be shown, then it should be ok to show harrasment comming from everywhere,Be it from white people, black people, man, women and yes, gay people.

I think there is a fairly large difference between "approaching a topic" and making a topic into a joke. There are a lot of games, movies and other forms of art which deal with homosexuality, many of which are at least partially comedic. However, if the joke is simply "HE WAS GAY" than you aren't really actually approaching a topic, you are just relying on an outdated notion that homosexuality is weird, gross or something that should be inherently made fun of.

You bring up molestation, and this is often played of as a joke or as not a big deal in Japanese art (be in anime, manga or games). I was reading Princess Jellyfish not too long ago and one of the main male characters is drugged and made to think that he had sex with a woman (aka, that he was raped), and for a moment, it felt like the story was actually going to "approach the topic" and deal with it, but then it was played off as a joke and pushed aside. It isn't that the topic was brought up that was an issue, it was the means in which it was addressed and written.

I see criticism of this as no different than criticism of any other story or character element. It was handled poorly, it was criticized as such, and if a future adaptation of the source material is made, I hope that they will address this story beat better. I don't think this is PC culture running rampant and destroying muh gaems, it is just people asking for better written stories which is an entirely natural criticism and expectation...



Nautilus said:
Hiku said:


There were two gay men NPC's who were being sexually aggressive towards minors (threatening to forcibly strip the male highschoolers, etc) on top of being played for laughs in an over the top stereotypical comic relief way.
It's a common trope on Japanese TV to make fun of gays like that.

Even if you are ok with gay people played for laughs in stereotypical fashion, there are young people who take their own life every day because of how society views and treats them.
I'm not personally bothered by that scene. But I understand how it can be harmful to some. Same with the sexual predator aspect. So I'm fine with not having it in Royal.

It's all on a case by case basis. If someone asks to change a birthday cake to a sandwich because looking at cakes reminds him of how he forgot to study for his test, then that's unreasonable. Asking to remove homophobic jokes? That's more reasonable, and something I can live without.

But it's a game.

Then you should have no problem with any of this, because it's a game.

Games used to be just games decades ago. Today it's more apt to call many of them interactive entertainment. A medium for expressing art the same as any movie or book.
And Persona 5 in particular deals with some very real and relatable themes such as criminal injustice, suicide, sexual abuse, taking human life, etc.

Nautilus said:

And in the end, it's up to the developers to do what they want. I played the original, and didn't think that scene to be offensive in the least.I actually thought it to be quite funny.Why? Because it happened to me.I have already been "bothered" by trans standing on the street harrasing me saying "Come have a baby with me" or "Hey there you sexy". Whether what happened in the game and with me is the exception or not, it does happen, while it made me unconfortable, I don't find it offensive.If a game is allowed to portrait harrasment by white or black people, then a game is also allowed to portrait the same topic but with homosexual people.

And that comes from one of the most secure and safe country in the world.

Developers are human, and can make mistakes and learn from them afterwards.
If someone grew up only knowing the jokes from variety shows then they may not understand how harmful this can be to some people until you hear from them.

The problem is when people only think of themselves, or from their perspective. And prioritize their entertainment over other people's well being.

Nautilus said:

If you want to approach a topic, you WILL end up ratlling one group or another.The problem, personally speaking, is if a topic is made the whole subject of the game AND it's done in poor taste and/or innapropriate.An extreme example: Molestation.If a game had such topic as the main one, and in the game lore it was done in a way that it was ok and it repeatedly kept showing it to you, then that's fucked up.

But if harrashment and everything like that is a subject that is ok to be shown, then it should be ok to show harrasment comming from everywhere,Be it from white people, black people, man, women and yes, gay people.

Some of the most profound, memorable and thought provoking things I've experienced in games have come from things that were not the main focus.
So that a theme has to be the whole subject to be meaningful is simply not true.

It may be that way to you. And that's fine. But you can't tell others that they can only value their experience if it fits your criteria.
That again goes back to the problem of only looking at it from your own perspective.

Last edited by Hiku - on 29 March 2020

As long as their is not an agenda being shoved down our throats, it does not matter as long as the game is good. All versions should be the same across the board however. I do not agree with certain versions being censored over other simply because over sensitive people might get "offended".

Now if it is needed to release in a certain country due to their own laws, that is a bit different. That is the only exception however.



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sundin13 said:
Nautilus said:

But it's a game. And in the end, it's up to the developers to do what they want.I played the original, and didn't think that scene to be offensive in the least.I actually thought it to be quite funny.Why? Because it happened to me.I have already been "bothered" by trans standing on the street harrasing me saying "Come have a baby with me" or "Hey there you sexy". Whether what happened in the game and with me is the exception or not, it does happen, while it made me unconfortable, I don't find it offensive.If a game is allowed to portrait harrasment by white or black people, then a game is also allowed to portrait the same topic but with homosexual people.

And that comes from one of the most secure and safe country in the world.

If you want to approach a topic, you WILL end up ratlling one group or another.The problem, personally speaking, is if a topic is made the whole subject of the game AND it's done in poor taste and/or innapropriate.An extreme example: Molestation.If a game had such topic as the main one, and in the game lore it was done in a way that it was ok and it repeatedly kept showing it to you, then that's fucked up.

But if harrashment and everything like that is a subject that is ok to be shown, then it should be ok to show harrasment comming from everywhere,Be it from white people, black people, man, women and yes, gay people.

I think there is a fairly large difference between "approaching a topic" and making a topic into a joke. There are a lot of games, movies and other forms of art which deal with homosexuality, many of which are at least partially comedic. However, if the joke is simply "HE WAS GAY" than you aren't really actually approaching a topic, you are just relying on an outdated notion that homosexuality is weird, gross or something that should be inherently made fun of.

You bring up molestation, and this is often played of as a joke or as not a big deal in Japanese art (be in anime, manga or games). I was reading Princess Jellyfish not too long ago and one of the main male characters is drugged and made to think that he had sex with a woman (aka, that he was raped), and for a moment, it felt like the story was actually going to "approach the topic" and deal with it, but then it was played off as a joke and pushed aside. It isn't that the topic was brought up that was an issue, it was the means in which it was addressed and written.

I see criticism of this as no different than criticism of any other story or character element. It was handled poorly, it was criticized as such, and if a future adaptation of the source material is made, I hope that they will address this story beat better. I don't think this is PC culture running rampant and destroying muh gaems, it is just people asking for better written stories which is an entirely natural criticism and expectation...

I don't think they are destroying either.It's extremely annoying at best, and only a few rare exceptions that come to the point of actually harming it(for me one such example would be timespinner), but it's still there, and it's still annoying.

Don't get me wrong: as long as people have creative freedom to do whatever they want, there will always be one topic or another that you will be consider offensive or innapropriate.I think the same applies to this case with Persona 5 Royal.In my perception, I didn't find it offensive, and I found that funny.I just don't like the hypocrisy of demanding a subject to be removed from a game because you think it's offensive (the gay scene in Persona 5) while you are ok with other subjects being left in a game, that may be found offensive by other people, like making fun of Trump for example, since making fun of Trump usually(USUALLY) means making fun of the people who support him.That's just an example of political nature.I'm fairly sure there are many of religious nature, of race nature and so on.

And like the example you gave: We are judging a culture based on our own culture merits. More than that, the culture of a country that's more civilized, safe and probably advanced than most if not all western countries.

In the end, I feel like everyone will end up defending what they believe in.I dont find this offensive, that's why I said that removing the scene from Persona 5 is censoring and something that shouldn't have done.If the same was done to the Trump example I gave, in which the developer removed the insult to Trump from the game, I bet there would be people around the internet screaming "censorship!" or "cowards!".

In the end it's a matter of perspective.Personally, yes it is censorship and yes, shouldn't have been removed.It was only removed because of the insistance of a minority.And thus it proves the OP point, even if it only something minor.



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I'm fine with developers releasing their games in whatever form they feel will be most profitable, the market responding, and the developers reacting accordingly.



Nautilus said:
sundin13 said:

I think there is a fairly large difference between "approaching a topic" and making a topic into a joke. There are a lot of games, movies and other forms of art which deal with homosexuality, many of which are at least partially comedic. However, if the joke is simply "HE WAS GAY" than you aren't really actually approaching a topic, you are just relying on an outdated notion that homosexuality is weird, gross or something that should be inherently made fun of.

You bring up molestation, and this is often played of as a joke or as not a big deal in Japanese art (be in anime, manga or games). I was reading Princess Jellyfish not too long ago and one of the main male characters is drugged and made to think that he had sex with a woman (aka, that he was raped), and for a moment, it felt like the story was actually going to "approach the topic" and deal with it, but then it was played off as a joke and pushed aside. It isn't that the topic was brought up that was an issue, it was the means in which it was addressed and written.

I see criticism of this as no different than criticism of any other story or character element. It was handled poorly, it was criticized as such, and if a future adaptation of the source material is made, I hope that they will address this story beat better. I don't think this is PC culture running rampant and destroying muh gaems, it is just people asking for better written stories which is an entirely natural criticism and expectation...

I don't think they are destroying either.It's extremely annoying at best, and only a few rare exceptions that come to the point of actually harming it(for me one such example would be timespinner), but it's still there, and it's still annoying.

Don't get me wrong: as long as people have creative freedom to do whatever they want, there will always be one topic or another that you will be consider offensive or innapropriate.I think the same applies to this case with Persona 5 Royal.In my perception, I didn't find it offensive, and I found that funny.I just don't like the hypocrisy of demanding a subject to be removed from a game because you think it's offensive (the gay scene in Persona 5) while you are ok with other subjects being left in a game, that may be found offensive by other people, like making fun of Trump for example, since making fun of Trump usually(USUALLY) means making fun of the people who support him.That's just an example of political nature.I'm fairly sure there are many of religious nature, of race nature and so on.

And like the example you gave: We are judging a culture based on our own culture merits. More than that, the culture of a country that's more civilized, safe and probably advanced than most if not all western countries.

In the end, I feel like everyone will end up defending what they believe in.I dont find this offensive, that's why I said that removing the scene from Persona 5 is censoring and something that shouldn't have done.If the same was done to the Trump example I gave, in which the developer removed the insult to Trump from the game, I bet there would be people around the internet screaming "censorship!" or "cowards!".

In the end it's a matter of perspective.Personally, yes it is censorship and yes, shouldn't have been removed.It was only removed because of the insistance of a minority.And thus it proves the OP point, even if it only something minor.

I don't know man, rape being bad seems like a pretty universal thing to me...

Anyways, let me ask you this: If there was a scene in a game that was poorly written (for example, the characters aren't acting like they should without any good reason, or the scene just didn't make sense in the story) and that scene was rewritten in a remake, would you complain?



Not necessarily.

I do think we could use more games with progressive-minded viewpoints in the stories, with better representation among lead protagonists. More women. More non-whites. More LGBT people. And, as TV Tropes would put it, some anvils need to be dropped. Slavery, oppression, bigotry, authoritarianism, needless war, and environmental destruction are bad, and I think if someone wants to make a game with a story that speaks those opinions and addresses them, either through allegory or something a bit more in-your-face, then they ought to. "Get woke, go broke" is a load of bullshit, as we've had plenty of obviously "woke" fiction over the decades long before that neologism became a cliched meme and yet have attained massive mainstream success (Star Trek was always woke as hell, yet here we are 50+ years later and it's still popular and relevant). Art is inherently political even when it's neither obvious nor intentional, and creative types to tend to lean more leftward as a whole, and that's going to be reflected in entertainment media. Video games ought to be no different.

That being said, I also think there's nothing inherently wrong with fanservice-filled titles geared towards men. Games filled with prurient content like Dead or Alive or Senran Kagura have a right to exist without being ran off the market or being watered down to avoid offending people. Humans are sexual creatures by nature, we all have urges and kinks, and we all want to be titillated whether we admit it or not. Are games filled with scantily-clad women sexist? Yeah, I'd say that's hard to argue against. But they should stand or fall on their own merits. Let the market decide. Such content will cease to be produced when there's insufficient demand to make them viable products, and not a moment before.

TL;DR: Gaming ought to be more than a testosterone-clogged boys' club and ought to have more material that pisses off right-wingers, but it's also fine if games still get made for young males in mind, full of T&A and 80s action movie machismo. There's room for more than one target audience. And nobody has a right to go through life without being subjected to stuff that offends their sensibilities, whether their politics lean left or right.



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No. If a creator/developer/Studio has a point or story to make, how I receive it its gonna depend on how good it is, it doesnt matter if its "politically correct" or otherwise. Either way their intent is to sell it, so its never gonna go to an extreme just to follow an agenda. This is nitpicking. So the way I see it the "pc conversation" is meaningless, reminds me of how people were turned off by Horizon at first because the MC was female and they "couldnt relate" and then the game turned out to be fantastic. Either way, I rather games have moral/political commentary than to just be plain moronic like Duke Nukem. But thats me, moronic games like that have an audience as well.