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Forums - Politics - Official 2020 US Presidential Election Thread

Metallox said:
vivster said:

None of this actually outweighs the crimes he committed towards his country. And I mean the other crimes additionally to his financial and constitutional crimes. It is obvious that the majority wants expanded social programs, yet he did the opposite, he killed hundred of thousands of people in a pandemic he actively sabotaged by downplaying it and going against scientists, he irreparably damaged the US' reputation among all of its allies, he pulled out of the WHO, he pulled out of of the Paris climate agreement, he pulled out of the Iran nuclear deal which is widely regarded as a mutually beneficial deal for everyone including Israel, he put back efforts against climate change again by discrediting scientists, he encouraged and emboldened white supremacist groups, he sent federal agents to illegally suppress protests, he sabotaged the election and democracy itself by dismantling the USPS, a lot of his (ex-)advisors are under criminal investigation despite his promises to "drain the swamp", he spent billions on a border wall nobody wants or needs that is effectively useless and hurtful to landowners, he gave billionaires tax cuts for no reason, his spending in general is out of control and the country's debt is at a record high. The economy you speak of isn't fine. The only thing that is fine is billionaires and the stock market since he saw to that, while the poorest and the middle class are still suffering, now more than ever.

This is just from the top of my head. That's another real problem with him. He said so many lies and did so many horrible things you cannot even count them all. He lied in office literally thousands of times. There is no Democratic or Republican President ever he is comparable to. He is simply by the sheer sum of his misdeeds the worst President in the history of the country and the foreseeable future.

And even with all of that, half of the country still sided with him. Imagine that. Speaks volumes of the way people see the Democrats. 

That those people only see Democrats as whiny at worst but harmless...but still consider being whiny worse than dangerous? 



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PAOerfulone said:
What’s the story with Nevada? That one’s too close for comfort.

Only early mail-in ballots in Clark county left to count I think, which they will do tomorrow.



 

 

 

 

 

haxxiy said:
Dulfite said:
Collins winning Maine is a HUGE relief to me. I was more concerned about the Senate than the Presidency, what with Democrats threatening to expand the Supreme Court (because they are used to the Court going there way for decades on major issues, such as abortion and Obamacare, and they can't tolerate it being origanalistic-leaning for once) and threatening to add states to the union just to give themselves a perpetual advantage going forward in the Senate (D.C. and Puerto Rico). D.C. should just rejoin a state if they are so desperate to be counted towards the senate. Their lands were literally taken out of existing states, not like they were settlers moving into untamed lands, so if they want statehood they should vote to remerge with another state like Maryland, where they will have other like-mindedly liberal individuals and they can all be happy together. And Puerto Ricans are pretty divided on what they want to do so I doubt they could all get behind that anyway.

Anyway, with Alaska and the two Georgia races going Republican (at least I'm assuming based on numbers so far), looks like Republicans will keep control of the Senate with at least 51, possibly up to 52 or 53. Collins is a moderate, so she will no doubt confirm Biden appointed justices (which, worse case for conservatives, means 50-50 tie in the Senate with Harris being the tie breaker). What this means going forward, if Biden wins (which I expect him to at this point):

1) Biden won't get anything done that isn't bipartisan for at least 2 years. Honestly he's probably happy with that. I don't think Biden particularly likes Sanders/Warren/AOC. I get the impression, on core issues, he feels more in line with moderates in his party (regardless of what he says on TV to appease the socialists). And the only way he is getting anything done is if he can get Collins on board, and not lose vulnerable votes from democrats in red/purple states concerned about their own re-election chances in 2-4 years (Manchin, Sinema, Tester). That's at least 4 moderates he will have to appease to get things done. None of those four do I anticipate voting for huge environmental reform bills, or massive government spending on new programs. Because of this, I suspect Biden's first 2 years, and possibly his entire first term, will be mostly a "chill" presidency, which may be what we all need anyway haha. 4 years of nothing happening would probably calm people down some.

2) The chances of Harris invoking the 25th amendment just decreased. She won't have the backing of the Senate to enact extremely liberal policies, which will make losing moderate Democrats support when she runs for re-election (by betraying Biden) less "worth it" in the short term, as she won't be able to accomplish much. Unless Biden literally can't do the job, I don't think he will be removed from office. And if he does get removed, I suspect Harris to nominate a moderate as her VP to balance it out. If Democrats had picked up enough of the Senate to give them, say, a 53-47 lead with Harris, I suspect Harris would 25th amendment Biden, nominate an ultra liberal as her VP, and do whatever she wants for at least 2 years.

Hey, as an R leaning voter I'd like to hear from you, what exactly scares you so much about the Democratic party?

Is it gender/identity/racial politics? Government spending? Fear of some radical reform, such as PR statehood?

Also, please do elaborate on your point about huge environmental reform bills if you will. Surely local/private solar or wind power generation befits the notion of freedom more than depending on distant power plants? Or do you think those untouched wildernesses are there to be exploited by man for some short term economic benefit? Or it's just about not wanting, say, huge carbon taxes on oil companies/gas?

I don't think it's fear as much as what I don't want them to do. If the democrats were from the Bill Clinton or Obama era, I'd probably be more chill, as they wouldn't be pushing for all these systemic reforms as much as they are now. On a federal level, I am libertarian, so I don't want the government spending more money than they have (and I don't want them over taxing the money generating business owners more either, as that will have trickledown effect in regards to lower employee wages due to profits being lower and in many cases companies not growing and possibly even closing because of the lack of profits). I used to be more of a social conservative on federal issues (and still am on abortion), but on almost everything else I'd rather let the states decide. I'm in Missouri, and I want us to make our own decisions on those issues without some Supreme Court making up rights that don't exist yet on a federal level. Californians should be able to make whatever rights and rules they want to follow, every state should. This idea of forcing conservative mindsets unto liberal states, and liberal mindsets onto conservative states, is terrible and is only making us more divided. Even most anti-abortion people want it to be a state issue, not outlawed entirely.

As far as LBTQ, ten commandments in court houses, or any other social politics goes? Let the states handle those and to each their own.

The idea of solar/wind power sounds great on paper, but solar is terribly inefficient, and both destroy wildlife by taking up so much land and have huge carbon emissions simply by constructing, maintaining, and replacing them. The true clean energy would be nuclear, fusion, and fission, but they are taboo for really silly reasons and so we are murdering birds and wildlife all in the name of inefficient energy sources. They estimate 1/4 of the UK would have to be covered in these to power the country. Could you imagine 1/4 of any nation's land being solar panels or wind turbines?

The only thing I'm fearful of is Democrats winning in the short term by such a wide margin, that they rig the system going forward by adding 4 seats to the Senate and pack the Court with a bunch of justices that make unconstitutional decisions all in the name of doing what they think is right.



vivster said:
sales2099 said:

I’m not American, nor do I like him as a person. If I were I’d vote Trump purely because he isn’t a democrat. Say what you will about his personality, he did a lot of things in his term. The economy was surging under his term. He is an alternative to the increasingly socialist policies of the dems. Russia/North Korea aren’t active threats anymore. Iran has been defanged with the general being assassinated along with pulling out of the nuclear deal. Killing the ISIS leader, reaching a stepping stone to peace with Israel and countries it conflicts with. 

Economy and foreign policy were his strengths. Covid response and border policy are his major faults...along with every unfiltered thing he says lol. 

None of this actually outweighs the crimes he committed towards his country. And I mean the other crimes additionally to his financial and constitutional crimes. It is obvious that the majority wants expanded social programs, yet he did the opposite, he killed hundred of thousands of people in a pandemic he actively sabotaged by downplaying it and going against scientists, he irreparably damaged the US' reputation among all of its allies, he pulled out of the WHO, he pulled out of of the Paris climate agreement, he pulled out of the Iran nuclear deal which is widely regarded as a mutually beneficial deal for everyone including Israel, he put back efforts against climate change again by discrediting scientists, he encouraged and emboldened white supremacist groups, he sent federal agents to illegally suppress protests, he sabotaged the election and democracy itself by dismantling the USPS, a lot of his (ex-)advisors are under criminal investigation despite his promises to "drain the swamp", he spent billions on a border wall nobody wants or needs that is effectively useless and hurtful to landowners, he gave billionaires tax cuts for no reason, his spending in general is out of control and the country's debt is at a record high. The economy you speak of isn't fine. The only thing that is fine is billionaires and the stock market since he saw to that, while we the poorest and the middle class are still suffering, now more than ever.

This is just from the top of my head. That's another real problem with him. He said so many lies and did so many horrible things you cannot even count them all. He lied in office literally thousands of times. There is no Democratic or Republican President ever he is comparable to. He is simply by the sheer sum of his misdeeds the worst President in the history of the country and the foreseeable future.

Think what you want. Many see no fathomable reason to vote for him...here’s a hint. It’s not as simple as “Trump bad grrr”. It’s about policies that differ with Republicans and Democrats.

Dems want to fully open the borders unchecked. Reps want controlled, legal immigration. Dems believe in abortion rights. Reps, both Christian white and Hispanic to name a couple groups, hold value in sanctity of life. Dems are increasingly moving towards Socialism. Reps are pro capitalism, which is why Florida went Trump because many are from Cuba and Venezuela which are terrible socialist examples. Dems are secular, reps hold religion as a pillar the country’s culture. Many just hate the dem endorsed hard left culture in our media and entertainment industry while dems want to take it further. 

I could go on. Try, try to empathize with the other side. It’s not “all trump voters are horrible bigots” it’s rather people with a different set of values that only Reps can give them. Trump just happens to be the only choice for Reps, faults and all. 

Last edited by sales2099 - on 04 November 2020

Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

Dulfite said:
haxxiy said:

I don't think it's fear as much as what I don't want them to do. If the democrats were from the Bill Clinton or Obama era, I'd probably be more chill, as they wouldn't be pushing for all these systemic reforms as much as they are now. On a federal level, I am libertarian, so I don't want the government spending more money than they have (and I don't want them over taxing the money generating business owners more either, as that will have trickledown effect in regards to lower employee wages due to profits being lower and in many cases companies not growing and possibly even closing because of the lack of profits). I used to be more of a social conservative on federal issues (and still am on abortion), but on almost everything else I'd rather let the states decide. I'm in Missouri, and I want us to make our own decisions on those issues without some Supreme Court making up rights that don't exist yet on a federal level. Californians should be able to make whatever rights and rules they want to follow, every state should. This idea of forcing conservative mindsets unto liberal states, and liberal mindsets onto conservative states, is terrible and is only making us more divided. Even most anti-abortion people want it to be a state issue, not outlawed entirely.

As far as LBTQ, ten commandments in court houses, or any other social politics goes? Let the states handle those and to each their own.

The idea of solar/wind power sounds great on paper, but solar is terribly inefficient, and both destroy wildlife by taking up so much land and have huge carbon emissions simply by constructing, maintaining, and replacing them. The true clean energy would be nuclear, fusion, and fission, but they are taboo for really silly reasons and so we are murdering birds and wildlife all in the name of inefficient energy sources. They estimate 1/4 of the UK would have to be covered in these to power the country. Could you imagine 1/4 of any nation's land being solar panels or wind turbines?

The only thing I'm fearful of is Democrats winning in the short term by such a wide margin, that they rig the system going forward by adding 4 seats to the Senate and pack the Court with a bunch of justices that make unconstitutional decisions all in the name of doing what they think is right.

Interesting. Thank you for your input.



 

 

 

 

 

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sales2099 said:
Runa216 said:

I hope he loses, but I'm absolutely disgusted that, despite of (or because of) everything Trump did up to this point, people still have faith in him. Either all the bigotry and wild immaturity and lack of credentials wasn't a dealbreaker, or that's WHY they like him. Either his gross misconduct concerning Covid isn't important, or itis and they actively want the lax security and value their comfort over...you know, public health and safety. Either way, I fear for the country. I'd be ashamed to call myself American if I elected this unqualified, narcissistic, bigoted, immature brat for a president. 

I’m not American, nor do I like him as a person. If I were I’d vote Trump purely because he isn’t a democrat. Say what you will about his personality, he did a lot of things in his term. The economy was surging under his term. He is an alternative to the increasingly socialist policies of the dems. Russia/North Korea aren’t active threats anymore. Iran has been defanged with the general being assassinated along with pulling out of the nuclear deal. Killing the ISIS leader, reaching a stepping stone to peace with Israel and countries it conflicts with. 

Economy and foreign policy were his strengths. Covid response and border policy are his major faults...along with every unfiltered thing he says lol. 

If you want to give Trump credit for anything that happens in the economy, you have to be consistent. If the rise in the economy that continued on the same trajectory that had been going since before his election is his, then the collapse is his too. If alternatively you want to say the collapse was strictly due to Covid, and not his abysmal handling of it, then you also have to look into the other economic factors.

I don't know how you assessed that Russia and North Korea aren't active threats anymore. Would love to see a national security expert backing up that opinion. Because of withdrawal from the open skies treaty and arms treaties, we have less ability to keep tabs on Russia, and they are free to increase their nuclear capability. 

There is incredibly debate about whether ending the Iran nuclear deal was a good thing. Iran is still one of the two major geopolitical factions in the region, and killing one general didn't change that. 

If killing an ISIS leader is something Trump gets praised for, you have to consider that the US killed plenty of high profile terrorist leaders under Obama. I'm not sure to what extent either President's successes in that regard is attributable to then. I think it's a testament to our military leaders. Neither Trump and Obama are military experts, and I doubt either was the critical component.

Trump actually didn't reach a stepping stone to peace in Israel with the countries it conflicts with. The two states that have normalized relationships with Israel, Bahrain and UAE, were nations that had never had any sort of armed conflict with Israel. They're not stepping stones to peace, because there had been peaceful relations there for years. In terms of the biggest issue to the peace process, Palestine, I don't believe any significant progress has been made. 



sales2099 said:
vivster said:

None of this actually outweighs the crimes he committed towards his country. And I mean the other crimes additionally to his financial and constitutional crimes. It is obvious that the majority wants expanded social programs, yet he did the opposite, he killed hundred of thousands of people in a pandemic he actively sabotaged by downplaying it and going against scientists, he irreparably damaged the US' reputation among all of its allies, he pulled out of the WHO, he pulled out of of the Paris climate agreement, he pulled out of the Iran nuclear deal which is widely regarded as a mutually beneficial deal for everyone including Israel, he put back efforts against climate change again by discrediting scientists, he encouraged and emboldened white supremacist groups, he sent federal agents to illegally suppress protests, he sabotaged the election and democracy itself by dismantling the USPS, a lot of his (ex-)advisors are under criminal investigation despite his promises to "drain the swamp", he spent billions on a border wall nobody wants or needs that is effectively useless and hurtful to landowners, he gave billionaires tax cuts for no reason, his spending in general is out of control and the country's debt is at a record high. The economy you speak of isn't fine. The only thing that is fine is billionaires and the stock market since he saw to that, while we the poorest and the middle class are still suffering, now more than ever.

This is just from the top of my head. That's another real problem with him. He said so many lies and did so many horrible things you cannot even count them all. He lied in office literally thousands of times. There is no Democratic or Republican President ever he is comparable to. He is simply by the sheer sum of his misdeeds the worst President in the history of the country and the foreseeable future.

Think what you want. Many see no fathomable reason to vote for him...here’s a hint. It’s not as simple as “Trump bad grrr”. It’s about policies that differ with Republicans and Democrats.

Dems want to fully open the borders unchecked. Reps want controlled, legal immigration. Dems believe in abortion rights. Reps, both Christian white and Hispanic to name a couple groups, hold value in sanctity of life. Dems are increasingly moving towards Socialism. Reps are pro capitalism, which is why Florida went Trump because many are from Cuba and Venezuela which are terrible socialist examples. Dems are secular, reps hold religion as a pillar the country’s culture. Many just hate the dem endorsed hard left culture in our media and entertainment industry while dems want to take it further. 

I could go on. Try, try to emphasize with the other side. It’s not “all trump voters are horrible bigots” it’s rather people with a different set of values that only Reps can give them. Trump just happens to be the only choice for Reps, faults and all. 

If America wants to even remotely compete with China and India for the top economy ten years from now we should be looking to double if not tipple the population of America.  A lot of wide open spaces in America to bring in immigration.



Seems like there is some shady things going on from both sides in this election. I dont even know what to think anymore. Fucking politics. Just a dumpster fire. The icing of the shitty cake that is 2020...



If Georgia is called for Biden later today I'm going to be kind of pissed. Because that would mean that Georgia could have saved us all a ton of anxiety if they reported on election day.



Barozi said:
Biden might get Georgia after all. Not many ballots left but he's catching up quite well. ~85k behind with about 250-350k still to be counted depending on the source.

2 hours later and 16.4k more votes got counted in Georgia. Biden got 72.3% of that batch reducing Trump's lead to 78.4k.

Could make it.