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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Bet: Which next-gen console will be more powerful?

         

** Betting is CLOSED - all winnings have been paid out by trunkswd **

 

Which next-gen console will be more powerful

PS5 4 $3,092.90 16.00%
 
Series X 21 $14,981.51 84.00%
 
 
Totals: 25 $18,074.41  
Game closed: 03/15/2020
Cerebralbore101 said:
Pemalite said:

Hence the chart I provided.

Well... You can have better than 20/20 vision...

The chart didn't load for me. Wasn't on my main computer. I see it now. The Linus video tends to disagree with the chart though. And my personal experience does as well. But you did say it was a rough estimate so, oh well. But what's the source of the info on the chart?

Edit: Also, I really don't think you've addressed the FPS beats resolution argument.

It's just simple math... It's using the Pixels Per Degree formula which accounts for resolution, size and distance.
It's what Apple would use for it's "retina" display branding... And obviously can be scaled up from there.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/7743/the-pixel-density-race-and-its-technical-merits

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retina_display

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fovea_centralis#Angular_size_of_foveal_cones

https://www.wikilectures.eu/w/Resolution_of_human_eye

https://www.rgb.com/display-size-resolution-and-ideal-viewing-distance

https://clarkvision.com/articles/eye-resolution.html

src said:

Sony can get a far larger discount since their console sells 100 million+ while Xbox is half of that. Sony also has the funds easily to eat a loss: they've been making billions of profit every year (far more than Xbox) and have far higher software sales, subscription sales and 1st party sales. 

Sony cannot guarantee anything, they have sold any consoles yet.
Sony has also had multiple consoles sell less than 100+ million lifetime... Such as the Playstation 3, Playstation Vita, Playstation Portable.

src said:

MS aren't going to burn all that money on a business that makes them a fraction of the money. By this insane logic, Google and MS would win at every market they compete in as they can burn so much more money.

The PC minimizes the financial risk to Microsoft's game division.

src said:

Sony has a console that sells 100 million while MS is declining and selling 50 million. Sony is going to get the better deal from AMD.

Sony hasn't even revealed their console yet, let alone sold a single unit... It could be a giant cock-up and a catastrophic flop with a plethora of anti-consumer stances that draws ire from the entire industry. (Unlikely, but companies make mistakes! Ask Nintendo, Microsoft, Sega etc'.)

Just don't count your chickens before the eggs have hatched.

src said:

AMD will give Sony larger discounts as Sony has a history of consoles selling near 100 million. Avg cost decreases as output increase. Read the article. 

Does not work like that I am afraid.

Microsoft and Sony pay AMD a 'Lump Sum' for the chip design, R&D and other work. - They then pay licensing fees on a regular basis after the fact.

From there... Sony and Microsoft will pay for chips in "batches" fro various foundries. - They don't forward project 100~ million units, that would be business suicide... And especially as the chips themselves will undergo multiple revisions/respins in order to resolve eratas and so forth, plus die-shrinks on top of it.
Microsoft and Sony will *never* order 100~ million of the same chip because they will never sell 100~ million of the same chip, even the Playstation 2 with 150~ million consoles sold, did NOT sell 150~ million of the same chip.

Take the Nintendo Switch as another example, the new Switch consoles don't use the same chip as the launch console, it's an entirely new variant with entirely new manufacturing and licensing agreements in place.

So before you demand people to "start reading" it does help if the information you provide actually has any factual basis to start with.




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Sony delaying out of 2019 and waiting until MS did their deep dive on specs tells me PS5 is more powerful.



goopy20 said:

I'm sure Series X will be a bit more powerful. Though, I'm curious what it will cost and if its meant to be a mass market product or more of a niche product like MS's $200 Elite controller. My guess is that Series X will be $599 and that's me being conservative. Sony will want to sell as many ps5's as possible and no doubt aim for a more tolerable price point between $399 -$499 and it'll likely be around 9 to 10Tflops. In real life performance, the games will probably end up looking quite similar between the 2, with Series X games running at a slightly higher res that most people won't notice.

On the other hand, if the ps5 was weaker compared to the Series X, it wouldn't make much sense to do their ps5 tech reveal right after. They must be pretty confident in how the 2 compare so who knows, maybe Sony has some tricks up their sleeves. 

Likely this reveal was planned ahead of time and Sony had no idea MS would drop theirs on monday. Either way, the Playstation reveal is for fans of Playstation (there are over 100m) and ultimately its independent from whatever MS is doing. Sony is feeding the needs of their core audience by giving them a tech breakdown even if its 2Tflops less then what MS showed yesterday. 



Otter said:
goopy20 said:

I'm sure Series X will be a bit more powerful. Though, I'm curious what it will cost and if its meant to be a mass market product or more of a niche product like MS's $200 Elite controller. My guess is that Series X will be $599 and that's me being conservative. Sony will want to sell as many ps5's as possible and no doubt aim for a more tolerable price point between $399 -$499 and it'll likely be around 9 to 10Tflops. In real life performance, the games will probably end up looking quite similar between the 2, with Series X games running at a slightly higher res that most people won't notice.

On the other hand, if the ps5 was weaker compared to the Series X, it wouldn't make much sense to do their ps5 tech reveal right after. They must be pretty confident in how the 2 compare so who knows, maybe Sony has some tricks up their sleeves. 

Likely this reveal was planned ahead of time and Sony had no idea MS would drop theirs on monday. Either way, the Playstation reveal is for fans of Playstation (there are over 100m) and ultimately its independent from whatever MS is doing. Sony is feeding the needs of their core audience by giving them a tech breakdown even if its 2Tflops less then what MS showed yesterday. 

That's true and I'd be surprised if the specs are far off from the rumored 9,2Tflops and a $399 price tag, which is still great to be honest. Personally I would be even happier if it would be $499 and a bit higher specs, but oh well.

Sony did say they haven't touched on some of the most exciting features yet, though. Not expecting much, but maybe they got some other cool innovations like the haptic controller.



So far everything points to xsx.



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Thanks to everyone who participated and good luck



 

Time to deliver my delicious VGC Bucks that I have no idea how to use!



HoangNhatAnh said:
src said:

Yes. Xbox went from 90 million -> <50 million 

155 - 90 = 65

90 - 50 = 40

Well, i wonder, which side dropped more. I think you already knew.

You are welcome.

Not PS as PS4 is going to end with 120-130 million lmao

As for your point, its completely meaningless. Its not about the size of the gap but the bottom number: Xbox at 50 million and even with your spin by ignoring PS4, PS3 is at 90 million.

Pemalite said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

The chart didn't load for me. Wasn't on my main computer. I see it now. The Linus video tends to disagree with the chart though. And my personal experience does as well. But you did say it was a rough estimate so, oh well. But what's the source of the info on the chart?

Edit: Also, I really don't think you've addressed the FPS beats resolution argument.

It's just simple math... It's using the Pixels Per Degree formula which accounts for resolution, size and distance.
It's what Apple would use for it's "retina" display branding... And obviously can be scaled up from there.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/7743/the-pixel-density-race-and-its-technical-merits

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retina_display

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fovea_centralis#Angular_size_of_foveal_cones

https://www.wikilectures.eu/w/Resolution_of_human_eye

https://www.rgb.com/display-size-resolution-and-ideal-viewing-distance

https://clarkvision.com/articles/eye-resolution.html

src said:

Sony can get a far larger discount since their console sells 100 million+ while Xbox is half of that. Sony also has the funds easily to eat a loss: they've been making billions of profit every year (far more than Xbox) and have far higher software sales, subscription sales and 1st party sales. 

Sony cannot guarantee anything, they have sold any consoles yet.
Sony has also had multiple consoles sell less than 100+ million lifetime... Such as the Playstation 3, Playstation Vita, Playstation Portable.

src said:

MS aren't going to burn all that money on a business that makes them a fraction of the money. By this insane logic, Google and MS would win at every market they compete in as they can burn so much more money.

The PC minimizes the financial risk to Microsoft's game division.

src said:

Sony has a console that sells 100 million while MS is declining and selling 50 million. Sony is going to get the better deal from AMD.

Sony hasn't even revealed their console yet, let alone sold a single unit... It could be a giant cock-up and a catastrophic flop with a plethora of anti-consumer stances that draws ire from the entire industry. (Unlikely, but companies make mistakes! Ask Nintendo, Microsoft, Sega etc'.)

Just don't count your chickens before the eggs have hatched.

src said:

AMD will give Sony larger discounts as Sony has a history of consoles selling near 100 million. Avg cost decreases as output increase. Read the article. 

Does not work like that I am afraid.

Microsoft and Sony pay AMD a 'Lump Sum' for the chip design, R&D and other work. - They then pay licensing fees on a regular basis after the fact.

From there... Sony and Microsoft will pay for chips in "batches" fro various foundries. - They don't forward project 100~ million units, that would be business suicide... And especially as the chips themselves will undergo multiple revisions/respins in order to resolve eratas and so forth, plus die-shrinks on top of it.
Microsoft and Sony will *never* order 100~ million of the same chip because they will never sell 100~ million of the same chip, even the Playstation 2 with 150~ million consoles sold, did NOT sell 150~ million of the same chip.

Take the Nintendo Switch as another example, the new Switch consoles don't use the same chip as the launch console, it's an entirely new variant with entirely new manufacturing and licensing agreements in place.

So before you demand people to "start reading" it does help if the information you provide actually has any factual basis to start with.


Obviously they aren't going to forward project 100 million. However what they will project is higher yearly console sales, which again goes to the general rule of larger volumes reducing average price. 



Xbox series X is quite a bit more powerful than the PS5 it seems. I wonder if it is more expensive though.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

Qwark said:
Xbox series X is quite a bit more powerful than the PS5 it seems. I wonder if it is more expensive though.

15% more powerful GPU, with an SSD that is half as fast, and only 10 GB of VRAM vs 16 GB of VRAM for PS5. After taking the time to digest today's news, it looks like Series X is just barely more powerful. 

I wonder if it's more expensive too. Probably not, but we'll see. 

Last edited by Cerebralbore101 - on 18 March 2020