Forums - Sony Discussion - PS5 GDC Reveal and PS5 specs/performance Digital Foundry Video analysis : 3.5 Ghz 8 core Zen 2 CPU along with 10.3 TF RDNA 2 RT capable and 16GB GDDR6 RAM and also super crazy fast 5.5 GB/Second S

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Total:41
PotentHerbs said:
mjk45 said:

We all know what comes after that the XSXsupersexy

If Lockhart is still a thing, I find that to be very unlikely.

 With Lockhart it's one more SKU than Sony so by following last gens upgrade path,  a PS5 Pro matched by a XSXsupersexy still means just the one extra SKU , that way Xbox maintains it SKU sandwich and the focus shown by MS on being the power leader means not matching the PS5 Pro would be seen as a backdown.



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Pemalite said:
Hiku said:

I'm not sure if a suitable equivalent exists on the market as of now. Cerny said that "At the time of my Wired interview, the ones on PC had 3.5 GB/s". And that the ones they're testing these days "come in at 4 or 5 GB/s".
The one you linked seems to be "4950MB/s read, 4250MB/s"?

1.) PC has had faster SSD's before Cerny made that "dodgy" claim.
PC can RAID. Nor did Cerny mention form factor or pricing or so forth.

The one I linked to... Actually does 5.22GB/s. Are we really splitting hairs over 0.28GB/s?


Besides, my point of contention isn't with Cerny... It's with the Poster making a blind general statement that PC SSD's cannot match the Playstation 5's when the PC does in-fact have SSD's that wipe the floor with what the Playstation 5 has.

Hiku said:


Not only that but he said that a commercial M2 drive would require "a little more speed to make up for the issues that arise from the different approach". 
Referring to how the commercial drive would only have 2 true priority levels, while the one in PS5 will have 6.
It would also need to physically fit in the PS5, since there's no standard for the height of the drive.

So it sounds like we'll need to wait and see which drive they say will work properly.

Well. "He" needs to backup that assertion with evidence.

Because a real-world benchmark with real-world performance numbers is real-world speed and thus already accounts for "issues" due to the different approach.

And no... It doesn't need to fit into the PS5, we are talking SSD speed comparisons here, not fitting a PC drive into a PS5.

Besides... You also have drives like the Kioxia SSD's which can do 6.9GB/s...
https://www.anandtech.com/show/15537/kioxia-releases-first-pcie-40-ssds-cm6-cd6

You can double that to 13.8GB/s easily enough via RAID.

And if you don't like that brand... The Samsung PM1725a will deliver over 6GB/s of sequential reads.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/15491/enterprise-nvme-hynix-samsung-dapustor-dera/6

I can keep going... But I think I have made my point. :P

I think the other comment was saying that today, an equivalent to the SSD in PS5 doesn't exist. And the link you gave was from end of Dec 2019, so I got the impression that you were also talking about nowadays.
But in the case that they don't exist today, that should be true at the time Cerny made his Wired statement as well, so I'll focus on today.

I'm not knowledgeable on the subject at all. But I was listening to Digital Foundry's analysis, and they did say that "SSD's capable of these sustained transfer rates don't really exist in the consumer space today."
And then one of them said that today, "the drives are catching up to the performance level of Sony's internal solution."

https://youtu.be/4higSVRZlkA?t=1343

He mirrors what Cerny said about those drives needing to be even faster than Sony's 5.5 GB, because of the 6 levels of priority on the PS5's SSD.
Because PS5's I/O would need to step in and enforce those extra levels of priority difference on drives that don't support it.

I don't know how much faster they need to be though. Maybe RAID would function in a similar manner on PC, but I don't know how that accounts for the difference in technology.
By the way, the Kioxia SSD you linked to has 4.2 GB write speed. If the SSD is supposed to function as RAM then is write speed important as well?

I suppose Cerny does need to prove how that technology compares to industry standard SSD speed. Though Digital Foundry weren't skeptical, so I guess it seems plausible to them. I wouldn't know.
And yeah, the physical size of the drive I didn't mention because of anything you said, but just to emphasize that it may be tricky to find a compatible drive in more ways than one.

Last edited by Hiku - on 19 March 2020

Pemalite said:
  1. The Xbox One X has the GPU edge no doubt, it has the bandwidth, it has the functional units and will take the fight to the RTX 2080.
    The Playstation 5 is a step down from the Xbox and falls into the Geforce RTX 2060 Super/RTX 2070 territory which is a step down from the RTX 2080.
    This is just the raw performance from the details we have currently, obviously we don't know all the details on the next gen hardware to actually make a 100% accurate comparison.
  2. You can do it on the PC, it requires CPU or GPU cycles to pull off, where-as the console use specific co-processors to offload the task.The PC also has compression/decompression standards as well. For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DriveSpace#Overview
  3. There are going to be instances where the Playstation 5 cannot maintain it's full clockrate due to TDP limitations, anyone who has used and extensively tested how the power relationship between the CPU and GPU portions of the APU will understand what I mean.

  1. If the XBX is comparable to the 2080... there is no way that the PS5 is comparable to the 2060... there's like a 15% performance difference between the 2080 super and the 2070 super. So that main one with the difference between the XSX and the PS5. You are right though, we do not know all the details and it would be silly making these kinda assessments now.

  2. Yes, I know you can obviously do compression stuff on a PC too. Using the GPU/CPU like the current-gen consoles are doing right now. But the next-gen consoles and particularly the PS5 has specific silicon exclusively for that task. And not just talking about compression/decompression here, I am saying there are other components built into the PS5s APU specifically to make this whole instant access/data throughput/management unique to the PS5.

  3. I am also aware of that, but that applied to every single processor out there doesn't it?


Vodacixi said:
Runa216 said:

aaahahahaha! sure bro, that's not setting yourself up for 'failure' at all. What a silly thing to make the decision for you. 

Why is it silly? Series X will be fully backwards compatible with all the previous Xbox consoles. I just expect the same from Playstation 5. And it's a feature I'm really looking forward because I'm tired of having to set up 15, 20 or 25 year old systems every time I want to replay a classic (and I tend to that a lot: I love replaying old games). Needing only one console connected in the room in order to play any game I want is something that really appeals to me. Especially in the case of Sony, because unlike Xbox, there are tons of PS1 and PS2 games I love with all my heart and I replay every now and then.

So, that feature alone would make me buy a PS5 instantly. If it doesn't have that, I see no reason to get a PS5. Simply because since the PS3 days, pretty much all the series I care about that were on Playstation became multiplatform. And Sony changed drammatically the kind of games they make themselves. Nowadays they are mostly western, adult, mature-story driven titles that I personally just don't enjoy at all. Sure, there is the occasional Gravity Rush, Astro Bot and Ratchet and Clank... but that is not enough for me. And since I feel mostly the same way about Microsoft... backwards compatibility is a decisive factor for me.

It'd be nice indeed, but I believe in the future all of the relevant old games will be available on PS Now. 

In the era of streaming, I think hardware bc is just a luxury that even though nice, is not really necessary anymore for the great majority of gamers.



God bless You.

My Total Sales prediction for PS4 by the end of 2021: 110m+

When PS4 will hit 100m consoles sold: Before Christmas 2019

There were three ravens sat on a tree / They were as blacke as they might be / The one of them said to his mate, Where shall we our breakfast take?


Intrinsic said:

Pemalite said:
  1. The Xbox One X has the GPU edge no doubt, it has the bandwidth, it has the functional units and will take the fight to the RTX 2080.
    The Playstation 5 is a step down from the Xbox and falls into the Geforce RTX 2060 Super/RTX 2070 territory which is a step down from the RTX 2080.
    This is just the raw performance from the details we have currently, obviously we don't know all the details on the next gen hardware to actually make a 100% accurate comparison.
  2. You can do it on the PC, it requires CPU or GPU cycles to pull off, where-as the console use specific co-processors to offload the task.The PC also has compression/decompression standards as well. For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DriveSpace#Overview
  3. There are going to be instances where the Playstation 5 cannot maintain it's full clockrate due to TDP limitations, anyone who has used and extensively tested how the power relationship between the CPU and GPU portions of the APU will understand what I mean.

  1. If the XBX is comparable to the 2080... there is no way that the PS5 is comparable to the 2060... there's like a 15% performance difference between the 2080 super and the 2070 super. So that main one with the difference between the XSX and the PS5. You are right though, we do not know all the details and it would be silly making these kinda assessments now.

  2. Yes, I know you can obviously do compression stuff on a PC too. Using the GPU/CPU like the current-gen consoles are doing right now. But the next-gen consoles and particularly the PS5 has specific silicon exclusively for that task. And not just talking about compression/decompression here, I am saying there are other components built into the PS5s APU specifically to make this whole instant access/data throughput/management unique to the PS5.

  3. I am also aware of that, but that applied to every single processor out there doesn't it?

I have to say you were right on spot (Intrinsic) when you were calculating an equivalent of 15 Teraflops or even more for PS5 years ago considering architecture changes. If 8 TF of NAVI is equivalent to 13 for VEGA 64, then let say 10 teraflops of PS5 would be 16,25 on the old architecture.  So a little better than you thought it would be. 

Still The XBOX is faster. I think It will be equivalent to a RTX 2080 while the PS5 is more like something in between a RTX 2070-RTX 2070 super. 

Considering what a company like Crytek did when It made Crysis back in 2007, I think great things can come from both consoles. 

IF they don´t reach 60 fps 4k in ultra quality, they would reach it in very high quality mode or high. Its much better than what we had when PS4 was launched, that was 1080p medium quality mode. 

Discussing if PC can have an SSD as fast as PS5 or not, doesn´t make much sense at all. 

First of all its a matter of time that PCs will have faster hardware if it doesn´t now,  and I guess that in 7 years consoles SSDs would be really slow in comparison. PC will be always ahead. But  that doesn´t mean that that hardware is used. 

Mainstream on PC is different. Many people, me included, have SSDs based on SATA3. And there are a lot that still have mecanical disks. 

So It will take a great deal of time until games are made for pc considering everyone of us have 7 GB/s SSDs. 

PS5 exclusives programmers will take advantage of that starting at the end of this year.  

Same with graphic cards. Which designed really takes advantage of an RTX 2080 ti? yes you have some better textures and more fps, but is the geometry different? is the lighthing really diferent, not much? Also the games are what matters. I´m sick of minecraft. 

When Microsoft showed the Xbox one X for the 1st time, they showed Forza and Minecraft 4k. 

Now they show Senua 2, that is not even a true AAA game, we´ll see if it gets there, and Minecraft Ray tracing. 

While Sony is doing the best games that look awesome even on PS4 pro. I can´t imagine what Naughty Dog or Santa Monica would be doing  with the power of a PS5. 



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I was just playing Days Gone yesterday and I realized for the first time ever I honestly don't care about graphics anymore. I want higher FPS and that's it. Days Gone already looks so great to have something better than that is already a bonus. I'll admit it bothers me a bit that the Xbox is the stronger console this gen but I'll get over it when I'm replaying TLOU2 and Bloodborne with proper FPS.



Pemalite said:

Sure. Keep in mind that the 2060 Super can match the RTX 2070 though and in some cases even beat it by a tiny margin.
https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/2517?vs=2513

And Sony has provided a "best case scenario" with it's clocks, there is the potential that a developer will prioritize CPU tasks at the expense of the GPU, you can't peg both chunks of the silicon and maintain the full 3.5Ghz+2.23Ghz.

There is the potential we could see the GPU limited to something like 2ghz or about 9.2 Teraflops for what it's worth.

It actually sounds more complicated than that. 

1.) GPU and CPU both had to be capped because they would otherwise run faster.  

2.) Cerny said that both would usually run at the max speeds.  



mjk45 said:
PotentHerbs said:

If Lockhart is still a thing, I find that to be very unlikely.

 With Lockhart it's one more SKU than Sony so by following last gens upgrade path,  a PS5 Pro matched by a XSXsupersexy still means just the one extra SKU , that way Xbox maintains it SKU sandwich and the focus shown by MS on being the power leader means not matching the PS5 Pro would be seen as a backdown.

The XSX is their premium model which is being followed by their base model in Lockhart. This situation is reversed for the PS5. If the PS5 Pro aims to double its TF count, similar to the PS4 Pro, MS at the bare minimum would need to surpass that, probably double the XSX, if they wanted another premium option. That would make the gap between Lockhart and the XSX Super astronomical. Is scalability really feasible with a low end of 4/6TF to a high end of 24TF? Its much easier with 4/6TF & 12 TF. MS can't just drop Lockhart despite all the bottlenecks it would present to the highest end model. That doesn't even consider what MS might cut back in order to hit a favorable, mass market price.

Ultimately, MS priorities and goals revolve around subscription models, & they would prioritize that over being the power leader 4 - 5 years down the line. Lockhart at $299, maybe even $199, seems like a more favorable strategy for them, instead of releasing another high end Xbox model. This option goes down the drain if Xbox Series X is their base of course, but according to MS insiders, Lockhart is still in the works.



PotentHerbs said:
mjk45 said:

 With Lockhart it's one more SKU than Sony so by following last gens upgrade path,  a PS5 Pro matched by a XSXsupersexy still means just the one extra SKU , that way Xbox maintains it SKU sandwich and the focus shown by MS on being the power leader means not matching the PS5 Pro would be seen as a backdown.

The XSX is their premium model which is being followed by their base model in Lockhart. This situation is reversed for the PS5. If the PS5 Pro aims to double its TF count, similar to the PS4 Pro, MS at the bare minimum would need to surpass that, probably double the XSX, if they wanted another premium option. That would make the gap between Lockhart and the XSX Super astronomical. Is scalability really feasible with a low end of 4/6TF to a high end of 24TF? Its much easier with 4/6TF & 12 TF. MS can't just drop Lockhart despite all the bottlenecks it would present to the highest end model. That doesn't even consider what MS might cut back in order to hit a favorable, mass market price.

Ultimately, MS priorities and goals revolve around subscription models, & they would prioritize that over being the power leader 4 - 5 years down the line. Lockhart at $299, maybe even $199, seems like a more favorable strategy for them, instead of releasing another high end Xbox model. This option goes down the drain if Xbox Series X is their base of course, but according to MS insiders, Lockhart is still in the works.

The truth is a potential PS5 Pro or the Xbox equivalent isn't made for the mass market that the job of the Series X and the lockhart is there to cater for those that want to play next gen games but are fine with a budget model, just like this gen those Pro type consoles are aimed at the enthusiast with best expectations of around 20% as to the scaling it pretty straight forward the series X will be the base and the other two get scaled up and down from there.the High Ends  extra horsepower will be limited by the need for parity just like today's SKU's but with the likely addition of PC style ultra settings  on top of the usual benefits .



DonFerrari said:

If you rewatch the presentation you'll see Mark Cerny saying something about it hitting 20Gb/s depending on the situation.

That's like saying the Playstation 5 can hit 10 teraflops "depending on the situation".
Ultimately it's irrelevant.

DonFerrari said:

And yes I know not all compression is the same. Thus why the only firm data is the 5.5Gb/s both 8-9 and 20 are depending on scenarios, 8-9 the most likely during most of time and 20 a theoretical limit.

Not all data compresses at the same rate or to the same extent. 5.5GB/s is the only 100% reliable metric.
There will be datasets that are pre-compressed which will not be compressible further.

DonFerrari said:

About the RAID and other PC superiorities, which even Digital Foundry is putting the solution in PS5 was better than what was in the PC at the time, does most current gen AAA games on PC load in 1s with keeping the status of like 4 games saved at once for quick resume?

The only limit to a PC's storage subsystem is essentially complexity, power, cost.

The PC doesn't even need an SSD to beat the Playstation 5's storage speed... And there is the potential to have 100 games in quick resume that loads faster than the Playstation 5 on PC.

It's called a Ram Drive... And you can have speeds in excess of 100GB/s. Just food for thought.

Very much doubt the Playstation 5 will be able to load it's entire DRAM in just 1 second either... But the PC can certainly do it in less time.

Hiku said:

I think the other comment was saying that today, an equivalent to the SSD in PS5 doesn't exist. And the link you gave was from end of Dec 2019, so I got the impression that you were also talking about nowadays.
But in the case that they don't exist today, that should be true at the time Cerny made his Wired statement as well, so I'll focus on today.

And an equivalent SSD to what is in the Playstation 5 will never exist, it's a custom solution.

Doesn't mean the Playstation 5 is the superior approach though, it's definitely the faster approach for that price point however.

Hiku said:

I'm not knowledgeable on the subject at all. But I was listening to Digital Foundry's analysis, and they did say that "SSD's capable of these sustained transfer rates don't really exist in the consumer space today."
And then one of them said that today, "the drives are catching up to the performance level of Sony's internal solution."

https://youtu.be/4higSVRZlkA?t=1343

He mirrors what Cerny said about those drives needing to be even faster than Sony's 5.5 GB, because of the 6 levels of priority on the PS5's SSD.
Because PS5's I/O would need to step in and enforce those extra levels of priority difference on drives that don't support it.

They do exist, they just aren't commodity, consumer-level, every-day drives.

The priority levels are there to prioritise which data transfers take priority, it doesn't actually give the drive more bandwidth.

Hiku said:


I don't know how much faster they need to be though. Maybe RAID would function in a similar manner on PC, but I don't know how that accounts for the difference in technology.
By the way, the Kioxia SSD you linked to has 4.2 GB write speed. If the SSD is supposed to function as RAM then is write speed important as well?

If you can have the Raw bandwidth of a PC SSD beat even the compressed bandwidth of the PS5 SSD, then the PC will have the advantage... And it's entirely plausible with technology available on the market today.

Yes. Write speed is important, the PS5's write speeds will likely be lower than it's read speeds, it's actually a limitation of the NAND itself and how it writes data in blocks.

Hiku said:

I suppose Cerny does need to prove how that technology compares to industry standard SSD speed. Though Digital Foundry weren't skeptical, so I guess it seems plausible to them. I wouldn't know.
And yeah, the physical size of the drive I didn't mention because of anything you said, but just to emphasize that it may be tricky to find a compatible drive in more ways than one.

I am not skeptical on the PS5's SSD speed, I applaud it.
The PC can just take it further as it's not limited by cost or form factor.

And to be fair... Most SSD's will not be compatible with the PS5, they need to be the right form factor, they need the right interface, they need the right performance profile... And they can't have a heatsink.

Intrinsic said:

  1. If the XBX is comparable to the 2080... there is no way that the PS5 is comparable to the 2060... there's like a 15% performance difference between the 2080 super and the 2070 super. So that main one with the difference between the XSX and the PS5. You are right though, we do not know all the details and it would be silly making these kinda assessments now.

The 2060 is not the same as the 2060 Super.

Intrinsic said:
  1. Yes, I know you can obviously do compression stuff on a PC too. Using the GPU/CPU like the current-gen consoles are doing right now. But the next-gen consoles and particularly the PS5 has specific silicon exclusively for that task. And not just talking about compression/decompression here, I am saying there are other components built into the PS5s APU specifically to make this whole instant access/data throughput/management unique to the PS5.

GPU's have compression blocks as well... Which are used for things like Delta Colour Compression and Texture Compression.
Just this time it is on the I/O side of the equation...

Drives like the Seagate Nytro drives and older Sandforce based drives also did "compression" on the SSD controller, to various extents and effectiveness, they did have a ton of caveats and implications though, maybe Sony and Microsoft have solved the problems that plagued old SSD's? Interested to see how it pans out.

the-pi-guy said:

2.) Cerny said that both would usually run at the max speeds.  

Very much doubt that Cerny stated both will run at max speeds at the same time, all the time. ;)
Otherwise the technology implemented designed to share power/thermal balancing is a waste of time, money, resources and oxygen to explain.

Last edited by Pemalite - on 20 March 2020

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