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Forums - Microsoft - Rumor: Xbox "Lockhart" specs leaked, is $300

shikamaru317 said:
goopy20 said:

The sweetspot will be $399 -$499, which be probably be exactly what the ps5 will cost. MS would have two consoles that sit completely outside the expected and tolerable price point. It just wouldn't make sense lol.

$500 is tolerable and that is what Series X is expected to cost. 

Also, just because mid-range products sell the best doesn't mean that low and high end don't sell well also. Look at PC gaming for instance. According to the latest Steam hardware survey, while mid-range GPU's from the last 2 GPU generations account for about 26.42% of all PC GPU's, if you add up all of the low and high end AMD and Nvidia GPU's from the latest 2 GPU generations, you come up with 22% which isn't far behind.

Totally agree. If the ps5 will launch at $399 and the Series X is $499, I for one would get me the Series X if it's really that more powerful and MS has the games to showcase the power gap. I'm sure that many would do the same. However, if it's $399 vs $599 or more, it would be a different story. But would anyone really buy a 4Tflops Series S, that they will be gaming on for 7 years, instead of a ps5 just to save 100 bucks? That's the price of 1 extra controller lol. 



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DonFerrari said:
Marth said:
Cant wait for you all to praise Sony when they inevitably announce their discless PS5...

Yes PSP Go was full of praise in VGC, except it wasn't.

I liked the Go. Mostly used for pirate development but I liked it. Was never a fan of the larger PSP and was not amused when the second released. 



goopy20 said:
shikamaru317 said:

$500 is tolerable and that is what Series X is expected to cost. 

Also, just because mid-range products sell the best doesn't mean that low and high end don't sell well also. Look at PC gaming for instance. According to the latest Steam hardware survey, while mid-range GPU's from the last 2 GPU generations account for about 26.42% of all PC GPU's, if you add up all of the low and high end AMD and Nvidia GPU's from the latest 2 GPU generations, you come up with 22% which isn't far behind.

Totally agree. If the ps5 will launch at $399 and the Series X is $499, I for one would get me the Series X if it's really that more powerful and MS has the games to showcase the power gap. I'm sure that many would do the same. However, if it's $399 vs $599 or more, it would be a different story. But would anyone really buy a 4Tflops Series S, that they will be gaming on for 7 years, instead of a ps5 just to save 100 bucks? That's the price of 1 extra controller lol. 

We'll have to wait and see but I'm skeptical PS5 can hit $399 unless Sony is taking a pretty big loss per unit.

Also, what separates PS5 and Series X? Is it just 3TF? Would that justify a $100 disparity? X1X was a $100 more but it came with a much better GPU, more CPU power, a huge RAM upgrade, 4K Bluray drive and a better cooling system.

The Series S is looking like it will still be significantly more powerful than base PS4 and X1 at a lower launch price. On paper it may have 3x the GPU power of PS4, ~4x CPU power and big upgrades in other specs. So if you're just moving from a base console and most are, the Series S will still be a beast in comparison. That's enough power to make any 8th gen game 60 fps with improved graphics settings and a resolution boost.

Series S's GPU is seemingly designed to be at par with X1X in power. That means it would still crush X1X in CPU, storage and RAM capabilities.



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goopy20 said:
sales2099 said:

Well if one is $300 and the Series X is $499-550 then I’d say that’s a decent sweet spot. I don’t think anybody will charge $599 after E3 2006. 

People can’t call the next Xbox weak because fans will just direct those over to the Series X. And MS can ideally boast the lowest barrier to entry and also the most powerful hardware. 

Looks like if true the Series S will be able to play the same games but at a solid 1080p, with dynamic resolution up scaling and 30-60 FPS based on the game involved. I for one really hope it’s true, a $300 launch price is all part of their low barrier entry philosophy into the brand. I imagine this is for people that for many reasons don’t want to fully invest in the Series X, which is fine. 

I mean if Nintendo can get away with releasing underpowered hardware then I say MS can do the same, so long as they got the power option handy too. 

The sweetspot will be $399 -$499, which be probably be exactly what the ps5 will cost. MS would have two consoles that sit completely outside the expected and tolerable price point. It just wouldn't make sense lol.

Who dictated the sweet spot starts at $399? Says who? The lower end Xbox 360 costed $299. The Wii costed $250. You act like a next gen machine that plays 1080p games is a bad sell at $300... that’s some nice mental gymnastics you pulling. 

Cant comment on Series X price, but $499 isn’t out of the question. 



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shikamaru317 said:
SvennoJ said:
Only a different GPU, how much can that realistically save? Maybe cheaper cooling as well? 4tf GPU vs 12tf GPU (of similar architecture) can that really save $200, 40% on a console? If Lockhart in 299, is that one heavily subsidized or is 499 estimate for the big one overpriced? Many think 499 would already be subsidizing the 12tf console. Same ram, 1tb SSD, same CPU, I don't get the huge price difference. Disc less saves a few bucks but not that much anymore. Smaller box?

I'd say that the weaker GPU will save them about $100 on the AMD chipset. No disc drive saves them about $15. I think I read somewhere that Lockhart will have 2-4 GB less GDDR6 RAM than Series X because it won't need to store high res "4k textures" since it is a 1080p console, so that should save them another $20 I'd imagine. They can maybe save $10 with a cheaper cooler since a chipset with a 4 tflop GPU will be producing a good bit less heat than a chipset with 12 tflop GPU. Might be able to get away with a slightly slower SSD as well, since they won't need to feed higher res "4K textures" from storage to the RAM, so maybe they can save another $10-20 on the SSD. All in all I'd reckon that they can produce Series S/Lockhart for $150-160 less than Series X, the rest of the difference they will just eat the loss on, knowing that they'll make it back between Gamepass and Gold subs, accessory sales, and the higher profit margin on digital sales. 

I also expect a SSD with half capacity compared to XSX. Thanks to "smart delivery" + optional 4K-textures the install size of Xbox games would be much smaller on Lockhart than on XSX. If Lockhart is discless, they not only save about $15 for the drive, they also lock out used games (which is probably worth another $50 - $100 to Microsoft and their partners).

Last edited by Conina - on 09 March 2020

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sales2099 said:
goopy20 said:

The sweetspot will be $399 -$499, which be probably be exactly what the ps5 will cost. MS would have two consoles that sit completely outside the expected and tolerable price point. It just wouldn't make sense lol.

Who dictated the sweet spot starts at $399? Says who? The lower end Xbox 360 costed $299. The Wii costed $250. You act like a next gen machine that plays 1080p games is a bad sell at $300... that’s some nice mental gymnastics you pulling. 

Cant comment on Series X price, but $499 isn’t out of the question. 

The ps4 launched at $399 and got a standing ovation for it during the reveal. When they announced the ps3 at $599 people were in outrage, though. The Xbox 360 also launched for $399, while the Xone also got some serious backlash when they revealed the $499 launch price. So yeah, most people will expect it to be $399 or $499 max. But nobody wants it to be too cheap and feel like they're buying some half ass next gen console that's just a slight upgrade from what they've been playing on for the last 7 years. 

Last edited by goopy20 - on 09 March 2020

goopy20 said:
sales2099 said:

Who dictated the sweet spot starts at $399? Says who? The lower end Xbox 360 costed $299. The Wii costed $250. You act like a next gen machine that plays 1080p games is a bad sell at $300... that’s some nice mental gymnastics you pulling. 

Cant comment on Series X price, but $499 isn’t out of the question. 

The ps4 launched at $399 and got a standing ovation for it during the reveal. When they announced the ps3 at $599 people were in outrage, though. The Xbox 360 also launched for $399, while the Xone also got some serious backlash when they revealed the $499 launch price. So yeah, most people will expect it to be $399 or $499 max. But nobody wants it to be too cheap and feel like they're buying some half ass next gen console that's just a slight upgrade from what they've been playing on for the last 7 years. 

The majority of Xbox owners didn’t buy a Xbox One X. So I’d argue the Series S would be a nice upgrade from the base Xbox One. Lol “slight upgrade”. Playing all the next gen games but at a lower resolution seems like a good deal to me. 



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Mr Puggsly said:
DonFerrari said:

Yes PSP Go was full of praise in VGC, except it wasn't.

That's a great comparison, hardware released when digital sales were much less popular. A big problem with PSP as well was the digital store lacked many notable titles.

Games get delisted on modern platforms, but a vast majority of the library should stay in the store.

I doubt there will be a discless PS5, but Sony did go the discless route at one point and it was too early. 8th gen was a good time to try X1SAD because every game (virtually) gets added digitally.

He is trying to push a hypocritical slant based on hypothetical future scenario.

I gave the evidence of what already happened. PSP Go wasn't praised for being fully digital, nor was Xbox 1 DRM scheme.

People may like the option for full digital, still X1SAD isn't that hot.

So I don't see how that would change if Sony made it.



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shikamaru317 said:
goopy20 said:

The ps4 launched at $399 and got a standing ovation for it during the reveal. When they announced the ps3 at $599 people were in outrage, though. The Xbox 360 also launched for $399, while the Xone also got some serious backlash when they revealed the $499 launch price. So yeah, most people will expect it to be $399 or $499 max. But nobody wants it to be too cheap and feel like they're buying some half ass next gen console that's just a slight upgrade from what they've been playing on for the last 7 years. 

I'd say it's more than a slight upgrade over last gen base hardware. Let's compare it to PS4, since both are designed to be 1080p consoles.

GPU: PS4 has a 1.8 tflop GCN GPU. Xbox Series X is expected to have a 4 tflop RDNA 2 GPU, which is expected to be at least equivalent to a 6 tflop GCN GPU in terms of real world performance, possibly more. But for the purposes of illustration, we'll say that the 4 tflop RDNA 2 is exactly equivalent to a 6 tflop GCN GPU. 6 divided by 1.8 = 3.33, so we're looking at a 3.3x graphical improvement over PS4 at least.

RAM: At least 4 more GB of RAM available to developers than base PS4, and more than double the RAM speed.

CPU: We have double the thread count (from 8 to 16), double the clockrate (from 1.6ghz to 3.2 ghz or more), and a pretty significant boost in IPC (instructions per clock), so we're looking at a 4-5x CPU improvement over PS4.

Storage Speed: 5400 RPM hard drive in PS4 has a read/write speed of about 50 MB/s I believe, rumor is the Phison SSD that MS is using in Series X is 3.7 GB/s read, 3 GB/s write, or about 74x faster in read speed and 60x faster in write speed than PS4 (we don't know for sure if Series S will be using the same SSD as Series X, but I would imagine we are looking at a 30x improvement in storage speed at least for Series S).

All in all, we're looking at a pretty significant increase over last gen base hardware for Series S. 

Of course it's still a decent upgrade but it's still a 50% downgrade from the ps5, which will probably be the base console for most developers. And if they would use Series S as the base, that would suck major donkey balls to be honest. We can forget about ray tracing and overall visual fidelity will be compromised across the board if that would happen. Just like Witcher 3 got downgraded when they decided to release it on consoles too.

I don't want next gen graphics to take a leap from a GTX660 to the ancient GTX780, I want it to be a leap to RTX2080 level performance. Maybe it's just me, but I really see no reason why any core gamer would actually be excited if Lockhart exists. It's maybe something for people who can't or don't want to spend $500 on a new console at launch, but those people can also just wait a bit for a price drop. But why would any gamer want to see developers use a $299 Lockhart with compromised specs as the base console for next gen games for the coming 7 years?

Last edited by goopy20 - on 09 March 2020

Radek said:

I think they can make S cost $200 less than X, because I bet the 4K Blu-Ray drive alone costs about $50 and 4 Tflops vs 12 Tflops GPU should cost at least $100 less to make.

These drives don't cost more than 10-15$.

DonFerrari said:

He is trying to push a hypocritical slant based on hypothetical future scenario.

I gave the evidence of what already happened. PSP Go wasn't praised for being fully digital, nor was Xbox 1 DRM scheme.

People may like the option for full digital, still X1SAD isn't that hot.

So I don't see how that would change if Sony made it.

Taking away the options is not a good idea. I suppose that even people who already went full digital would still not buy such console because who knows - maybe they would need this drive someday for something.