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Forums - Microsoft - Rumor: Xbox "Lockhart" specs leaked, is $300

Mr Puggsly said:
SvennoJ said:

1TB SSD, that's at least a 3rd of the cost of the entire console. Considering it gets the same RAM and CPU, that seems too much. But the current SAD also has 1TB. Larger indeed not likely. Perhaps storage sold separately, who knows.

Also this extra version could impact availability of the big boy now the corona virus is affecting production. It might be better to postpone Lockhart. I imagine early adopters won't be interested in a 4Tf version.

If MS has an idea of the size of games at the moment, it's possible 500GB could be viable. I am no expert but maybe due to the significantly faster CPU and storage, developers could utilize compression while still allowing games to load faster. Either they do that or potentially take a hit on storage space.

Having a significantly cheaper Lockhart on the market could also increase the the number of early adopters. I mean it will play 9th gen games and is a significant upgrade over base consoles, so it will still be impressive for the average 8th gen user.

The console won't have any exclusives for 2 years, and 3rd party games most likely will launch most games on the old generation too.

The X is as powerful as the series S, most xbox fans already have the X, they won't see many reasons to upgrade. Most other gamers are saving for a real next gen upgrade, most people would just pay 450 for a ps5 which most likely will have real exclusives not on PC or PS4, probably GT7 at launch.

No one bothers on saving 100-150 dollars when games will be almost 70 each, most people these days have phones that cost at least 500 dollars.

Thats like saying people would just buy a ps4 pro for 300dollars with a game, because budget. People who are ready to upgrade to next gen will not care much about price as long as its not over 500 dollars for base.



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Mr Puggsly said:
Radek said:

I'd much rather it kept 4K Blu-Ray since millions of people have physical Xbox One games.

Even if it costs $399.

Right, its not for everybody.

However, I don't really care about my physical Xbox One collection. Most content I own physically I've repurchased digitally when its like $5-10. That becomes a more significant problem when you own physical content that isn't available digitally.

Personally, I'm pretty sure I will buy a Series X at launch. But if I could get access to the same content for maybe $200+ less and I don't care that much about resolution, a Series S doesn't seem like a bad choice.

I don't understand this mentality, if money is not an issue for you, why chose the weaker console? Same reason I bought the X over the S, and the pro over the slim ps4, why choose the worst model? 500 dollars or even 600 dollars is nothing in 2020 if you have a steady job, that's not even one third of my month salary, 200-300 dollars wouldn't make a difference in most peoples lives who have jobs. Its not like back in 2006 the ps3 being 600dollars that was a lot of money back then, specially for a console without rumble on the controller.

And if we didn't have a steady job then why would we be looking at next gen consoles? Surely people on a budget will wait a couple years.



Azzanation said:

Colteastwood is actually correct on this one. To buy a capable PC running 12TF fully optimised for games with a State of the art SSD drive and motherboard would cost an arm and a leg.

Lets not act like TF mean absolutely nothing, for consoles its a much bigger deal since they are designed to run pedal to the metal so a 12TF console will most likely run better than a 12TF PC.

In saying that, that doesn't mean there are no PCs that are more powerful, of course there is and always will be, however for the price point rumoured to be $600-$700+, its a very capable machine, outperforming majority of PCs that gamers own, even the Xbox One X was outperforming the common gaming PC. My PC cost me $2500 for a 9TF GPU with 8Gigs of GDDR5X, the Series X is running 16Gigs of GDDR6! and it will cost less than half the price of my PC.

Also marketing will always be marketing, console makers always opt for the marketing choices on what is the going hype. Blast Processing, Bit Wars, Emotion Engine, Cell, and now TF. Its nothing new.

There have been numerous times where he's been called on getting his info wrong, as well as his daily attempts at shoving his own forms of fanboy propaganda around. I would never use Colt as anything in terms of spec or hw information. 

This is a guy who built a "custom" PC some years back, played a few games, uploaded a couple of vids, then went back to Xbox since then and dunked on the PC when 1X was near release, and since then, the guy's been full on dunk mode towards both PC and PS. He's not anywhere remotely neutral like he's claimed before, as well as his general stance with hw. I wold never trust anyone like Colt, not in this life or the next.

No, I didn't say for it to mean nothing, but the way it's being spread about and twisted and solely focused on, it's making it akin to an end all to be all card for a few console gamers out there. It's the new "blast processing" spin, or the new "secret sauce", and it's become monotonous in it's use by console folk out there. I still remember the crap being spewed about "coding to the metal", and how it was going to magically bring consoles above PC again, and now we're seeing it with Tflops, and even right now, right here, you're proclaiming the same. It's like you're completely ignoring the fact that RDNA 2 will also be available for PC within the year. PC isn't going to magically be toppled or put so far or even far behind in general.

Of course, the price point, the trump card, the smoking gun, the ace in the hole. I've seen Colt use the price argument when faced with unfavourable odds, even going so far as to bring out the old "gotta include monitor, OS, KB+M, DVD drive etc. Of course lesser hw is going to come at a cheaper price, but at the end of the day, you get what you paid for. I can't for the life of me remember a time when I bought a superior product, or anything that was so over the moon amazing, and it being cheap as chips, I really cannot, because honestly, why waste that sort of money as a business?. 

That's good for you that you spent the money that you did. It was your choice, just like it was mine to go for what I wanted in terms of PC hw, but I'm not going to turn around and give a massive cheer for next gen hw, let alone it's price point, because that doesn't net me anything, and I don't even feel that I need to be humbled by a plastic box, over what I'm currently running with. My HW gets me where I want to be in terms of performance/visuals, and the last thing I'll ever need, is another plastic box, when I could just upgrade my parts, and besides, my GPU has more than enough power for what I need it to do. 

And no, you won't need to tell me the obvious "you don't need to get the console then", I already knew that, I'm just pointing out that my PC hw does what it says on the tin, and that the price factor was not of a hindrance to me. 

Yeah, I know it's nothing new, but it doesn't stop it from spreading misinformation and annoying use of words that also end up getting twisted and used in the wrong manner.

Last edited by Chazore - on 09 March 2020

Mankind, in its arrogance and self-delusion, must believe they are the mirrors to God in both their image and their power. If something shatters that mirror, then it must be totally destroyed.

Azzanation said:
Leynos said:

Keep your SAD editions. Physical all the way! Why should someone buy this if they have a PC?

snip

Xcloud,you don't need to run it natively on a $300 PC

Last edited by Leynos - on 09 March 2020

Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

victor83fernandes said:
Mr Puggsly said:

If MS has an idea of the size of games at the moment, it's possible 500GB could be viable. I am no expert but maybe due to the significantly faster CPU and storage, developers could utilize compression while still allowing games to load faster. Either they do that or potentially take a hit on storage space.

Having a significantly cheaper Lockhart on the market could also increase the the number of early adopters. I mean it will play 9th gen games and is a significant upgrade over base consoles, so it will still be impressive for the average 8th gen user.

The console won't have any exclusives for 2 years, and 3rd party games most likely will launch most games on the old generation too.

The X is as powerful as the series S, most xbox fans already have the X, they won't see many reasons to upgrade. Most other gamers are saving for a real next gen upgrade, most people would just pay 450 for a ps5 which most likely will have real exclusives not on PC or PS4, probably GT7 at launch.

No one bothers on saving 100-150 dollars when games will be almost 70 each, most people these days have phones that cost at least 500 dollars.

Thats like saying people would just buy a ps4 pro for 300dollars with a game, because budget. People who are ready to upgrade to next gen will not care much about price as long as its not over 500 dollars for base.

No, the Series S might be at par with X1X in GPU power but other specs will trounce X1X. Games on Series S can actually have better visuals and performance thanks to less CPU bottleneck.

In other threads we've already discussed many users opted for cross gen games over the true exclusives in 2013/2014. Having true exclusives at launch doesn't really matter unless they're actually notable. Even then, cross gen games could potentially sell better.

Base console users can also be Xbox fans, many may have skipped X1X and are waiting for 9th gen. Those are users who may also consider Series S.

People don't necessarily outright buy $500+ phones, it often part of their phone plan. People don't always buy the most expensive phone either. With that logic people might opt for the Series S if its considerably cheaper and plays 9th gen games well.

I think $400 and even $500+ is expensive to the average gamer, which is why many will wait for price cuts. If MS can be there on day one with a good $299 machine, it could do well. Most users have base consoles, so even the Series S can look like a vast improvement.



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victor83fernandes said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Right, its not for everybody.

However, I don't really care about my physical Xbox One collection. Most content I own physically I've repurchased digitally when its like $5-10. That becomes a more significant problem when you own physical content that isn't available digitally.

Personally, I'm pretty sure I will buy a Series X at launch. But if I could get access to the same content for maybe $200+ less and I don't care that much about resolution, a Series S doesn't seem like a bad choice.

I don't understand this mentality, if money is not an issue for you, why chose the weaker console? Same reason I bought the X over the S, and the pro over the slim ps4, why choose the worst model? 500 dollars or even 600 dollars is nothing in 2020 if you have a steady job, that's not even one third of my month salary, 200-300 dollars wouldn't make a difference in most peoples lives who have jobs. Its not like back in 2006 the ps3 being 600dollars that was a lot of money back then, specially for a console without rumble on the controller.

And if we didn't have a steady job then why would we be looking at next gen consoles? Surely people on a budget will wait a couple years.

I could afford a $599 Series X, that doesn't mean I necessarily want to spend that if Series S is a viable option at a much lower cost. We'll have to wait and see what the disparities are.

I bought two X1X units, but I still waited for discounts. I bought mine for $399 and eventually a second at $349 for another room.

My problem with base X1 ports is many just weren't well optimized and resolution was sometimes underwhelming. You needed a X1X for more 60 fps experiences. It can also be a vast improvement in BC titles which I still enjoy playing. I didn't buy a PS4 Pro though because PS4 games are generally well optimized already and Pro wasn't a big enough upgrade.

I guess I'm on the ropes about next gen because I think the X1X is pretty impressive already and many games will be cross gen. But if Series S is only $299 and does an even better job than X1X, that's tempting.



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Chazore said:

There have been numerous times where he's been called on getting his info wrong, as well as his daily attempts at shoving his own forms of fanboy propaganda around. I would never use Colt as anything in terms of spec or hw information. 

This is a guy who built a "custom" PC some years back, played a few games, uploaded a couple of vids, then went back to Xbox since then and dunked on the PC when 1X was near release, and since then, the guy's been full on dunk mode towards both PC and PS. He's not anywhere remotely neutral like he's claimed before, as well as his general stance with hw. I wold never trust anyone like Colt, not in this life or the next.

No, I didn't say for it to mean nothing, but the way it's being spread about and twisted and solely focused on, it's making it akin to an end all to be all card for a few console gamers out there. It's the new "blast processing" spin, or the new "secret sauce", and it's become monotonous in it's use by console folk out there. I still remember the crap being spewed about "coding to the metal", and how it was going to magically bring consoles above PC again, and now we're seeing it with Tflops, and even right now, right here, you're proclaiming the same. It's like you're completely ignoring the fact that RDNA 2 will also be available for PC within the year. PC isn't going to magically be toppled or put so far or even far behind in general.

Of course, the price point, the trump card, the smoking gun, the ace in the hole. I've seen Colt use the price argument when faced with unfavourable odds, even going so far as to bring out the old "gotta include monitor, OS, KB+M, DVD drive etc. Of course lesser hw is going to come at a cheaper price, but at the end of the day, you get what you paid for. I can't for the life of me remember a time when I bought a superior product, or anything that was so over the moon amazing, and it being cheap as chips, I really cannot, because honestly, why waste that sort of money as a business?. 

That's good for you that you spent the money that you did. It was your choice, just like it was mine to go for what I wanted in terms of PC hw, but I'm not going to turn around and give a massive cheer for next gen hw, let alone it's price point, because that doesn't net me anything, and I don't even feel that I need to be humbled by a plastic box, over what I'm currently running with. My HW gets me where I want to be in terms of performance/visuals, and the last thing I'll ever need, is another plastic box, when I could just upgrade my parts, and besides, my GPU has more than enough power for what I need it to do. 

And no, you won't need to tell me the obvious "you don't need to get the console then", I already knew that, I'm just pointing out that my PC hw does what it says on the tin, and that the price factor was not of a hindrance to me. 

Yeah, I know it's nothing new, but it doesn't stop it from spreading misinformation and annoying use of words that also end up getting twisted and used in the wrong manner.

That's fair enough, I am not suggesting you cheer for Xbox or to go buy one. I am just stating that what Colt is saying is not far from the truth. I don't know what other videos he has made nor do I care about random Youtubers aside from Jim Sterling etc. TF is not a completely useless term like secret Source or Floats or whatever has been mentioned through-out the generations.

I am the first to say TFs isn't everything, But its no different to how car companies manufacture cars and claim Horse Power or Kilowatts as there selling point, HP/KWs doesn't tell the customers how fast the car will go 0-100km however customers love knowing what's under the hood. 300hp sounds better than 250hp even though that 250hp car is faster 0-100km. Its just Marketing 101.

We all know that there is more to these next gen consoles than just TFs, we are getting Raytracing, Super Fast SSDs, updated eco-systems with BC, better sound options, better controller input lag with updated controllers etc. I will also be upgrading my PC once the next Nvidia series releases however I do like to marvel on what we consider good tech regardless if its top of the range or not. I love my Nintendo Switch and its only 1TF yet it has offered me the best games so far this gen. I just love tech and innovations. Anyway I am getting off course.



If this is true, it's pretty baffling how MS doesn't understand the concept of a sweet-spot when it comes to console pricing. No core gamer wants a next gen console to be too cheap, they want the best hardware possible at a tolerable price. Most people will expect them to be between $399 and $499 and historically, $599 or more hasn't worked out that great for any console. If this is all true MS will have 2 consoles, one is too expensive for the masses and the other will feel too compromised and cheap, especially when the comparison videos will start popping up and the Series S versions have trouble maintaining a decent framerate and looks like a blurry stain compared to the ps5 version.

I'm also sure we won't be seeing 4k and 60fps as standard next gen. The X1X and ps4 pro weren't designed to be a next gen console, they were meant as a 4k version of current gen consoles and for the vast majority a higher fps/ resolution wasn't worth the upgrade. These next gen consoles will be about a leap in overall visual fidelity and developers will likely target 30fps/1440p (maybe even 1080p) for most AAA titles. Native 4k/60fps (or even 8k/120fps lol) would be a gigantic waste of resources and we would practically be playing the same games we're playing now.



sales2099 said:
think-man said:
Maybe i missed something but what is the point of this console? Is it going to be current gen or next gen?

It’s next gen, but would be the baseline console. Lower end that sacrifices resolution for lower price. Not everybody has a 4K setup or a big tv screen to care enough for series X.

If true MS can boast they have power and price at the same time which helps in the PR department. 

There are benefits to rendering games at 4k even if you only have a 1080P display, the Xbox One X has been a showcase for that benefit this generation.

JRPGfan said:
think-man said:
Maybe i missed something but what is the point of this console? Is it going to be current gen or next gen?

Its CPU + Ram will be the same as that inside the "bigger brother" series X, which will be for 4k.

The point of lockhart, is to make a smaller chip, by cutting down the GPU part.
This means the chip will be cheaper to make (possibly saveing ~100$ or so, in production costs that can then be passed on to consumers).

So its a cheaper console that ll play next gen games, in 1080p.

The memory bus will likely receive a hit either in frequency or width or both, possible a DRAM reduction too.

Azzanation said:

Colteastwood is actually correct on this one. To buy a capable PC running 12TF fully optimised for games with a State of the art SSD drive and motherboard would cost an arm and a leg.

False narrative to assume PC gamers care about matching the consoles... Or that you even need 12 Teraflops or an SSD.

Mr Puggsly said:

It also depends on how the GPU is designed/balanced, the base X1 for example gets great results for only 1.2 TF. Again, I'm no expert but it certainly looks like a 4TF Lockhart could have GPU power at par with X1X.

A 4 Teraflop RDNA 2 GPU will beat the Polaris derived 6 Teraflop based Graphics core next GPU. No contest.
I would expect a sizable advantage in favor of the RDNA 2 chip, especially in Ray Tracing applications by several orders of magnitude.

We also need to keep in mind that a theoretical Lockhart isn't going to be dumping all it's resources into chasing the 4k dream... Those are resources that will thus be geared towards increasing visual fidelity.





www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

If PS5 is 10-12TF for 399-449 this Lockhart version will have a hard time to sell even more when for 2 years Xbox will be on crossgen with X1X being about same power as Lockhart, already on the hand of gamers and probably with a lot of discounts by the end of the year.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."