Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Rumor: Xbox "Lockhart" specs leaked, is $300

Pemalite said:
victor83fernandes said:

2 - 4 Teraflops Is way below the current generation xbox X, even below the ps4 pro, that wont happen

You are way to focused on teraflops.
Even at 4 teraflops it should still be significantly faster than the Xbox One X in graphics duties.

Sogreblute said:

2: Teraflops is not the be all end all for GPUs. There is a lot of misconception from this. You can't use Teraflops to compare GPUs from different architectures. This has been proven time and time again. 

You can't even compare it with the same architecture.

You get a GPU of the same "name" like the Geforce 1030 for example... Even at the same "Teraflops" the DDR4 variant will be half the speed of the GDDR5 variant.

You're missing the point, Microsoft NEEDS to compete with playstation, they wouldn't launch a much weaker console, unless they want to come in 3rd place yet again for the 3rd time. In fact that would be free advertising for sony, it would be all over gaming news and word of mouth that ps5 is way more powerful, everyone would just pay a bit more and get the ps5.

Maybe thats what microsoft wants, I get a feeling they've been wanting to quit gaming consoles for a long time now, they aren't even trying anymore.



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shikamaru317 said:
victor83fernandes said:

There is no way this is true, like at all

1 - There is no reason for a 300 dollar price point, consumers are more than willing to pay minimum 400 for next gen

2 - 4 Teraflops Is way below the current generation xbox X, even below the ps4 pro, that wont happen

3 - Microsoft will not risk the bad marketing and the jokes again this generation, launching a new gen console weaker than the current gen

4 - Microsoft will not risk launching a base console way weaker than ps5 base console, they cant afford it as they don't have the exclusives to swing them, unless they are trying for a reason to get out of the console market, possible

5 - If this is true then Ill definitely wait a couple years before I buy into Xbox again, because the future is too uncertain, unlike the ps5 which is guarantee huge success and many exclusives for at least 7 years.

1. There is a big reason. If PS5 is $450 as rumored, they can undercut them by $150 and have a cheap option available for budget conscious gamers right from the start of the gen. Sure it will be quite a bit less powerful than PS5 and XSX, but some people care more about saving money than they care about having the best graphics. Just look at how the Xbox One S All-Digital edition at $150 was one of the best selling console SKU's on Black Friday week last year. 

2. You're placing too much emphasis on flops. Supposedly 4 tflops on RDNA 2 is a good bit more powerful than 6 tflops on GCN, the GPU architecture that XB1 X and PS4 Pro used. Also, this system won't be aiming for 4K like XB1 X did, supposedly the target is 1080p-1440p on next gen games that will be 4K on XSX and PS5. 

3. See #2.

4. I don't see how having a cheaper console option than Sony hurts them at all against PS5, lol. 

5. That's your prerogative. 

If ps5 base console is 450dollars, it would be at least 9 teraflops, xbox would be a laughing joke if it is less than half the graphical power, people would just joke that it isn't even next gen while ps5 is the true next gen. Not to mention there wont even be exclusives on xbox for 2 years. No one would buy it. And a console without a disc drive? See how well the xbox one S all digital did? It didn't sell much at all. Most people would rather pay a bit more and get the option of disc drive.

Im not complaining about 4tf against the xbox X, Im looking how it compared to the competition next generation.



shikamaru317 said:
SvennoJ said:
What kind of SSD / HDD though?

Nice anchor weight for next generation is my thoughts.

Original rumors were that it would have the same 1 TB SSD as Series X. I doubt they'd go smaller, since it's digital only and even 1 TB will fill up fast with next gen file sizes, and I also doubt they'll go larger if they're aiming for $300. 

At 300dollars they would never in a million years put a 1terabyte ssd, that would cost half the price of the console parts (without the controller), unless they put HDD instead, the xbox X uses HDD not ssd.



victor83fernandes said:
Pemalite said:

You are way to focused on teraflops.
Even at 4 teraflops it should still be significantly faster than the Xbox One X in graphics duties.

You can't even compare it with the same architecture.

You get a GPU of the same "name" like the Geforce 1030 for example... Even at the same "Teraflops" the DDR4 variant will be half the speed of the GDDR5 variant.

You're missing the point, Microsoft NEEDS to compete with playstation, they wouldn't launch a much weaker console, unless they want to come in 3rd place yet again for the 3rd time. In fact that would be free advertising for sony, it would be all over gaming news and word of mouth that ps5 is way more powerful, everyone would just pay a bit more and get the ps5.

Maybe thats what microsoft wants, I get a feeling they've been wanting to quit gaming consoles for a long time now, they aren't even trying anymore.

You seem to be under the impression that Series S/Lockhart is the only next gen Xbox console. There is also Series X. Microsoft’s plan is clearly to have both the cheapest next gen console (Series S) and the most powerful next gen console (Series X). The high/low strategy allows them to offer an option for everyone. $150 is not a bit more btw.



victor83fernandes said:
shikamaru317 said:

1. There is a big reason. If PS5 is $450 as rumored, they can undercut them by $150 and have a cheap option available for budget conscious gamers right from the start of the gen. Sure it will be quite a bit less powerful than PS5 and XSX, but some people care more about saving money than they care about having the best graphics. Just look at how the Xbox One S All-Digital edition at $150 was one of the best selling console SKU's on Black Friday week last year. 

2. You're placing too much emphasis on flops. Supposedly 4 tflops on RDNA 2 is a good bit more powerful than 6 tflops on GCN, the GPU architecture that XB1 X and PS4 Pro used. Also, this system won't be aiming for 4K like XB1 X did, supposedly the target is 1080p-1440p on next gen games that will be 4K on XSX and PS5. 

3. See #2.

4. I don't see how having a cheaper console option than Sony hurts them at all against PS5, lol. 

5. That's your prerogative. 

If ps5 base console is 450dollars, it would be at least 9 teraflops, xbox would be a laughing joke if it is less than half the graphical power, people would just joke that it isn't even next gen while ps5 is the true next gen. Not to mention there wont even be exclusives on xbox for 2 years. No one would buy it. And a console without a disc drive? See how well the xbox one S all digital did? It didn't sell much at all. Most people would rather pay a bit more and get the option of disc drive.

Im not complaining about 4tf against the xbox X, Im looking how it compared to the competition next generation.

1. MS doesn’t care about jokes from core gamers on forums. The Series S is not intended for core gamers, Series X is. Series S is intended for casuals and the budget conscious, not core gamers who want the best graphics. Specs comparisons are irrelevant to the target audience for Series S, that audience just wants a cheap console that plays the games that they want to play.

2. Xbox One S All Digital edition was not a flop, not sure where you are getting that from. MS sold it for $150 Black Friday week, $50 less than the disc drive XB1 S, and it sold very well at that price, it was one of the top console SKU’s Black Friday week, not only in the US but in Europe as well. XB1 SAD edition was a trial run to see if an all digital console next gen would be viable. It passed the test, that is why Lockhart/Series S wasn’t cancelled or given a disc drive, MS knows now that an all-digital console can succeed.

victor83fernandes said:
shikamaru317 said:

Original rumors were that it would have the same 1 TB SSD as Series X. I doubt they'd go smaller, since it's digital only and even 1 TB will fill up fast with next gen file sizes, and I also doubt they'll go larger if they're aiming for $300. 

At 300dollars they would never in a million years put a 1terabyte ssd, that would cost half the price of the console parts (without the controller), unless they put HDD instead, the xbox X uses HDD not ssd.

You can buy a 1TB SSD at retail for about $100-120 now. That is retail, Microsoft is buying their SSD’s in bulk straight from the manufacturer, Phison, they’re probably paying a bit over half the retail price per SSD. $50-70 for an SSD is not a bad price.

MS has to use an SSD in Series S or else next gen development will be handicapped. Next gen games will be designed to run on the fast SSD’s in PS5 and Series X, trying to run them on slow standard hard drives would not only create load time issues, it would cause major texture pop-in and frame rate hitches. MS has to use an SSD that is nearly as fast as the one in Series X, they can probably get away with a slightly slower and cheaper SSD, since Series S won’t need to load higher quality “4K textures”, being a 1080p console, but it still needs to be pretty fast. MS will take a loss on Series S if need be to boost next gen market share and get as many people as possible locked into a Gamepass Ultimate subs and digital gaming (which has a higher profit margin for game sales than physical does, since you don’t need to pay retailers a cut of each game sale).

Last edited by shikamaru317 - on 08 March 2020

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Leynos said:

Keep your SAD editions. Physical all the way! Why should someone buy this if they have a PC?

Better price performance ratio than a PC upgrade?

And especially most PC users wouldn't have a problem with digital versions... since physical games on PC already died many years ago.



victor83fernandes said:

There is no way this is true, like at all

2 - 4 Teraflops Is way below the current generation xbox X, even below the ps4 pro, that wont happen

3 - Microsoft will not risk the bad marketing and the jokes again this generation, launching a new gen console weaker than the current gen

Both Geforce GTX 1650 Super (4.9 TFlops) and Radeon RX 5500 XT (5.2 TFlops) are on par with a Radeon RX 590 (7.1 TFlops).

The graphic performance of a 4 TFlops Lockhart would probably be on par with the 6.2 TFlops of the Xbox One X and wouldn't have the CPU-bottleneck.

So average performance of the Xbox One X with better frametimes / less slowdowns.
Similar performance in high resolutions, but better performance in FullHD.



I just hope this is fake news. Tflops alone might not paint a full picture but 4Tflops sounds pretty terrible regardless. If next gen games will be targeting 30fps/ 1080p on ps5, wouldn't Lockhart run those games in 720p?

Last edited by goopy20 - on 08 March 2020

4 tflops on RDNA 2 will be more powerful than the 6 tflops on GCN from Xbox one X.



Performance per watt got a huge leap from GCN used on current consoles to RDNA 2.