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Forums - Gaming Discussion - I don't think people understand Final Fantasy 7 Remake's battle system; Let's talk about it.

My favorite is FFX battle system and leveling up.



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Seems to me like Square could solve pretty much all the problems people have with this combat system by implementing a simple Dragon Age: Origins style tactics menu for your party members. Let players set up simple "If > then" commands to take some of the micromanaging out of their hands.



Pinkie_pie said:

This is exactly what i thought. Its why we can change characters on the fly to better adapt to the situation. When theres flying enemies you will have to control barret and have him targeting at them while cloud will focus on close combat. 

But in the original game, enemy out of range for characters without 'Long Range' materia would just cast a magic to damage and enemy. In this I had to switch to Barret and just hit the enemies while Cloud just stood there blocking when in reality I wanted to control both to make sure their time isn't being wasted. You know, like FF7. I mean the entire elevator fight with that machine is long range and one of your party members is Aerith.

Last edited by The Fury - on 05 March 2020

Hmm, pie.

I understand it perfectly just would prefer if it was closer to FF7 than FF13/15 spliced together.

I don't like those games, I liked FF7.I'd weirdly say that the best ATB combat game SquEnix made for FF was FFX-2. Character's weren't fixed to a specific location and moved around based on their current class, you had an array of classes and abilities, smooth transition between classes. You could see all of the battle, HP bars, MP bars that you needed, not stuck on 1 character, controlled all members. Had actual ATB, not the variation of X or what we see now.

What was a stable between each earlier FF game 4-9 (didn't really play the ones before due to releases) was that the main change between each game was the story, characters and magic/leveling system. What remained was the ATB, yet since X, it feels like SquEnix do all they can to remove the ATB when that never dated. Random battles dated, chibi characters dated, fixed scenes dated. The ATB is just the core gameplay the series was built around. Think of it this way, Street Fighter is still a 2D plane fighter, that's it's primary gameplay. How it's evolved since then is how it's seen, adding new features better graphics, better cancelling etc, yet FF (SquEnix) seems to want rid of the ATB, it's core gameplay.

I honestly do not think SquEnix will ever make a FF game like 4-9 again, based on the fact this remake of 7's combat is not like FF7. Stagger? I mean fing Stagger? Get that crap out of my FF7 game.



Hmm, pie.

JWeinCom said:

The original was a turn based game.  Something that makes sense in a turn based game does not necessarily make sense in a real time action RPG. If the characters in there acted on their own, then I would literally be doing nothing.  

What would be a better way to implement "full control" of party members?  I don't know.  But that's the wrong question.  The better question is should they implement "full control" in the first place? Does having full control over how the characters spend their ATB points actually make the game any more fun?  It might in the full game when there are more options and bosses presumably require more strategy.  But, in the demo, it didn't improve things at all for me, it just added an extra chore that took me out of the rhythm.  

For some reason, I have a feeling you’re approaching this battle system button mashing style. The system revolves around switching characters and using their unique skill sets depending on the situation. But what you describe makes it look like you want to keep hack n slashing with Cloud without using the rest of the battle system.

I get that it’s not going to be everyone’s cup of tea, but the system in place isn’t objectively bad or flawed. Once you get used to it, and yes, understand it, it actually makes a lot of sense.

But I know many will dislike it no matter what because it isn’t what they expected/wanted it to be.



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Hynad said:
JWeinCom said:

The original was a turn based game.  Something that makes sense in a turn based game does not necessarily make sense in a real time action RPG. If the characters in there acted on their own, then I would literally be doing nothing.  

What would be a better way to implement "full control" of party members?  I don't know.  But that's the wrong question.  The better question is should they implement "full control" in the first place? Does having full control over how the characters spend their ATB points actually make the game any more fun?  It might in the full game when there are more options and bosses presumably require more strategy.  But, in the demo, it didn't improve things at all for me, it just added an extra chore that took me out of the rhythm.  

For some reason, I have a feeling you’re approaching this battle system button mashing style. The system revolves around switching characters and using their unique skill sets depending on the situation. But what you describe makes it look like you want to keep hack n slashing with Cloud without using the rest of the battle system.

I get that it’s not going to be everyone’s cup of tea, but the system in place isn’t objectively bad or flawed. Once you get used to it, and yes, understand it, it actually makes a lot of sense.

But I know many will dislike it no matter what because it isn’t what they expected/wanted it to be.

I fully understand the battle system.  In fact I've played other games where you can switch between characters before.  I've even switched my characters when another one was more suitable for the job I was doing.  I've been playing games for a while, and this is not some new concept that was just too darn complex for me.  

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 05 March 2020

JWeinCom said: 
Hynad said:

For some reason, I have a feeling you’re approaching this battle system button mashing style. The system revolves around switching characters and using their unique skill sets depending on the situation. But what you describe makes it look like you want to keep hack n slashing with Cloud without using the rest of the battle system.

I get that it’s not going to be everyone’s cup of tea, but the system in place isn’t objectively bad or flawed. Once you get used to it, and yes, understand it, it actually makes a lot of sense.

But I know many will dislike it no matter what because it isn’t what they expected/wanted it to be.

I fully understand the battle system.  In fact I've played other games where you can switch between characters before.  I've even switched my characters when another one was more suitable for the job I was doing.  I've been playing games for a while, and this is not some new concept that was just too darn complex for me.  

Oh right. Ok... It can’t be you. I forgot who I was talking to... Sorry.

To answer your question, yes, having full control is better and more fun. You’ll have to get used to it and figure out the rhythm that comes with it.

And even if you’ve played games that had character switching, no battle system has been like VII Remake’s take on it. 

You could watch Maximilian Dood’s videos about the game. Might help you figure out the tempo and maybe learn a thing or two you haven’t figured out. I understand the game kind of tempts you to rush and go button mashy style, but interestingly, when you take it slow, battles tend to end faster.  



hmm I thought this game also had the option to use a battle system similar to the original? is that not the case?



Hynad said:
JWeinCom said: 

I fully understand the battle system.  In fact I've played other games where you can switch between characters before.  I've even switched my characters when another one was more suitable for the job I was doing.  I've been playing games for a while, and this is not some new concept that was just too darn complex for me.  

Oh right. Ok... It can’t be you. I forgot who I was talking to... Sorry.

To answer your question, yes, having full control is better and more fun. You’ll have to get used to it and figure out the rhythm that comes with it.

And even if you’ve played games that had character switching, no battle system has been like VII Remake’s take on it. 

You could watch Maximilian Dood’s videos about the game. Might help you figure out the tempo and maybe learn a thing or two you haven’t figured out. I understand the game kind of tempts you to rush and go button mashy style, but interestingly, when you take it slow, battles tend to end faster.  

My job as a player is to overcome the challenges the developer placed in front of me.  If I did so effectively, then I understood the battle system well enough.  In this case, I beat the demo without much hardship, so I'd say I understood it.  Unless you're suggesting that they made a game (or demo at least) that you can beat easily without understanding, which would be a pretty big development flaw.

"Oh right. Ok... It can’t be you. I forgot who I was talking to... Sorry."

So, you're going to insist I don't understand something, which is a statement you can't possibly justify since you neither saw me play nor have access to my mind... then when I disagree, you're going to throw shade at me?  Really? I didn't force you to respond to me.  If you think I'm inherently unreasonable then don't.  



Baddman said:
hmm I thought this game also had the option to use a battle system similar to the original? is that not the case?

Yes and no. In the demo there was the option for 'Classic' difficulty. (the fact there's difficulty is weird enough).

In it it said that "Characters attack themselves and you just take control of the abilities." basically. The 'classic' more is your character just mashing square without you mashing square and when the 'ATB' fills from it, you can choose for them to an ability. When you select abilities (which includes magic and items as well as just no MP abilities that should be limits), 'time slows' allowing you to make a choice of your next move and pick a target. It's not FF7 ATB.

'Classic' was also labeled as "Classic is set to easy difficulty".



Hmm, pie.