Forums - Gaming Discussion - Do gamers really want Cloud gaming?

goopy20 said:
sales2099 said:

Phil also said steaming will never be as responsive as console gaming and is a convenience. Forgot that quote huh? 

Well you seem to not understand the appeal of Xcloud or how it could be used. Kids can use it in the car for short to long rides. Adults can play in the bedroom when winding down for the day. Or kids when sent to bed and very commonly...are not willing to sleep right away. Waiting in the doctors office...a small backpack is all you need to carry the controller and holder. Obviously if there is a AAA immersive game people can choose to play that at home only. 

MS invested tens of billions for their cloud infrastructure. No way Nintendo will follow and they always do dedicated hardware anyway. Sony literally will be coming to MS as a customer in the next gen...do you not keep up with the news? Even if Sony wins when they follow MS....MS wins even more because they getting paid $$$$$$ by Sony to use their cloud. See MS actually had the foresight to plan for the future where as Sony’s current streaming ambitions can’t keep up with the times. 

MS focusing on consoles too. In case you aren’t aware they been pushing the Series X in PR lately. Lockhart isn’t even officially announced....ya I think they value consoles too. 

“get people excited for their next gen exclusives?” I have never seen a Halo title receive anything less then stellar marketing with maximum penetration to the masses. Especially as a launch title. Especially as Halo and Xbox each represent a fresh start for the Xbox brand and fans. 

He didn't say never. He said in about 10 years there will be no need for dedicated hardware anymore. That's why selling next gen consoles isn't important for MS because they're already looking past next gen. 

The head of Xbox just unveiled a new console, but Phil Spencer isn’t too worried about selling you one. “I don’t need to sell any specific version of the console in order for us to reach our business goals,” he told me in an interview yesterday, the day after Microsoft held its annual E3 keynote.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/11/18661247/phil-spencer-interview-xbox-project-scarlett-xcloud-e3-2019

And who cares if Sony pays MS $$$$$$ to use their Cloud? I'm not a MS shareholder, I just like to play games. In the end gaming is entertainment and even if Cloud gaming is the future like we're seeing now with streaming movies/music, content will still be king. 

Consoles are over when we the consumer say it’s over by not buying them. We dictate when that time comes. Looks like you didn’t respond to the examples of Xcloud use. Glad we sorted that out. 

Thanks for the quote that literally backs up my argument haha. MS wants you in the family. Because once you in you are more likely to keep investing time and money. The Series X appeals to those who want it, simple as that. 

You said you wouldn’t expect MS to win if Sony followed them in the cloud space. I said they would profit massively lol. That profit literally would keep Xcloud investments strong if you want a gamers benefitting spin. I wouldn’t talk about it though until Sony actually announces something. Its funny you said your just a average joe gamer who likes to play good games, who previously admitted to wanting bad launch exclusives if they give a glimpse of the consoles power. 



 

 

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Leynos said:
When games become all cloud and publishers can take them down anytime they want and have full control. There is no craft anymore. It's just disposable marketable digital playgrounds designed purely around making money by nickel and diming. People will not appreciate a craft anymore esp as there will be none, but even for the few that are a work of craftsmanship, it won't matter. Just treat it as something disposable. Nothing will be valued anymore. I will not part take in that "future"

So most developers will stop making good games in a streaming future? Why would they?

There will still be competition between the developers, publishers and platform owners to make better games than the competitors.

Has the quality of TV-shows gone down since Netflix and Amazon entered the scene? I don't think so... I'd even say that many Netflix original series and Amazon original series are some of the best shows and even don't have to hide behind many good/great movies.

People also don't get mindwiped... if they appreciate the craft of great games now, they will also appreciate it in the future. They'll expect new good games and if they don't get them, they can cancel their subscriptions and return to thousands of old games. Every streaming platform will try to keep their subscribers happy so they don't cancel the subscription. They could even deliver gaming experiences via streaming which simply aren't possible on the fastest home console or gaming PC.

In its current state game streaming ain't for me, because the games look and play better on local hardware than on Stadia, GeForce Now, PSNow, xCloud and Shadow. On these you currently only get the processing power of a middle-class PC / PS4 Pro / Xbox One X at best... combined with higher input lag and streaming artifacts the quality is worse than the local options.

But this could change in the future when processing power in computing centers gets cheaper and cheaper compared to the "island solutions" in millions of homes. And suddenly you can get the processing power of 10 or 20 PS5s / XSX combined... instead of playing f.e. the most demanding PS5/XSX in 1080p 30 fps with medium raytracing settings on local hardware, the streaming option would render it in native 4K / 60 fps with much higher raytracing precision and higher level of detail and better effects. Of course the 4K-stream would lose a bit quality due to compression, but it would still look a lot better than the locally rendered version; 60 fps + lag could also be a smoother experience than 30 fps locally rendered.



In the 1970s home computing was seen as a revolution, a way to use computers without having to pay for "computer time" from mainframes. Now tech companies are trying to prod us back into paying for computer time on someone else's computer.



Conina said:
Leynos said:
When games become all cloud and publishers can take them down anytime they want and have full control. There is no craft anymore. It's just disposable marketable digital playgrounds designed purely around making money by nickel and diming. People will not appreciate a craft anymore esp as there will be none, but even for the few that are a work of craftsmanship, it won't matter. Just treat it as something disposable. Nothing will be valued anymore. I will not part take in that "future"

So most developers will stop making good games in a streaming future? Why would they?

There will still be competition between the developers, publishers and platform owners to make better games than the competitors.

Has the quality of TV-shows gone down since Netflix and Amazon entered the scene? I don't think so... I'd even say that many Netflix original series and Amazon original series are some of the best shows and even don't have to hide behind many good/great movies.

People also don't get mindwiped... if they appreciate the craft of great games now, they will also appreciate it in the future. They'll expect new good games and if they don't get them, they can cancel their subscriptions and return to thousands of old games. Every streaming platform will try to keep their subscribers happy so they don't cancel the subscription. They could even deliver gaming experiences via streaming which simply aren't possible on the fastest home console or gaming PC.

In its current state game streaming ain't for me, because the games look and play better on local hardware than on Stadia, GeForce Now, PSNow, xCloud and Shadow. On these you currently only get the processing power of a middle-class PC / PS4 Pro / Xbox One X at best... combined with higher input lag and streaming artifacts the quality is worse than the local options.

But this could change in the future when processing power in computing centers gets cheaper and cheaper compared to the "island solutions" in millions of homes. And suddenly you can get the processing power of 10 or 20 PS5s / XSX combined... instead of playing f.e. the most demanding PS5/XSX in 1080p 30 fps with medium raytracing settings on local hardware, the streaming option would render it in native 4K / 60 fps with much higher raytracing precision and higher level of detail and better effects. Of course the 4K-stream would lose a bit quality due to compression, but it would still look a lot better than the locally rendered version; 60 fps + lag could also be a smoother experience than 30 fps locally rendered.

That does actually sound awesome. I think Cloud gaming will only become a thing when it can provides a better experience than what would be possible on dedicated hardware. 



goopy20 said:
Conina said:

So most developers will stop making good games in a streaming future? Why would they?

There will still be competition between the developers, publishers and platform owners to make better games than the competitors.

Has the quality of TV-shows gone down since Netflix and Amazon entered the scene? I don't think so... I'd even say that many Netflix original series and Amazon original series are some of the best shows and even don't have to hide behind many good/great movies.

People also don't get mindwiped... if they appreciate the craft of great games now, they will also appreciate it in the future. They'll expect new good games and if they don't get them, they can cancel their subscriptions and return to thousands of old games. Every streaming platform will try to keep their subscribers happy so they don't cancel the subscription. They could even deliver gaming experiences via streaming which simply aren't possible on the fastest home console or gaming PC.

In its current state game streaming ain't for me, because the games look and play better on local hardware than on Stadia, GeForce Now, PSNow, xCloud and Shadow. On these you currently only get the processing power of a middle-class PC / PS4 Pro / Xbox One X at best... combined with higher input lag and streaming artifacts the quality is worse than the local options.

But this could change in the future when processing power in computing centers gets cheaper and cheaper compared to the "island solutions" in millions of homes. And suddenly you can get the processing power of 10 or 20 PS5s / XSX combined... instead of playing f.e. the most demanding PS5/XSX in 1080p 30 fps with medium raytracing settings on local hardware, the streaming option would render it in native 4K / 60 fps with much higher raytracing precision and higher level of detail and better effects. Of course the 4K-stream would lose a bit quality due to compression, but it would still look a lot better than the locally rendered version; 60 fps + lag could also be a smoother experience than 30 fps locally rendered.

That does actually sound awesome. I think Cloud gaming will only become a thing when it can provides a better experience than what would be possible on dedicated hardware. 

It's also good for development and even games like Dreams. Imagine you get extra power to try out things but need to optimize / split up things if you want to share a final version. It will need some hybrid solution though, editing things through a remote desktop is kinda horrible. Yet putting something together locally to immediately test it in the cloud and get feedback where to optimize, that would be awesome.



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I want cloud gaming. I don't see myself replacing consoles anytime soon. But, I do like the XCloud idea of streaming to my TVs around the house, so that I don't have to buy a console for each one. Also, playing in hotel rooms, at friends and family's homes, and even possibly from my phone is appealing *as a secondary option*. At the end of the day, I play a lot of shooters, and I value graphical fidelity. So, I expect I'll be using a dedicated, local device for most of my gaming for a long time to come. But, just like I value the Switch's portability when I travel, I see value in streaming for when I can't be parked in front of my TV.

I certainly hope that Stadia stays around, XCloud does better, and that other entrants show up to move the stuff forward.  From what little I've seen so far, game streaming has a long way to go.  I want to see it make the journey.  



goopy20 said:
zero129 said:

Yes their focus is clearly their nextgen console and the xbox eco system. With gamepass and streaming they are looking to position themselves for the future.

But for now both are secondary options and MS has stated as much already.

Or to you expect MS to just sit back and let company's like Google and Amazon etc take all the streaming market share?.

Fact is and yes i also dont like it but streaming "IS" the future of gaming. It wont be for awhile yet but it is coming. and yes like i said i also hate it, but im not so blinded that i cant see where the market is going. Once users can stream their games on any device without the problems it faces right now (Internet speeds, data caps etc) the biggest part of the market is going to move that way.

Next gen, their main focus is obviously on building the foundation for what they envision the future of gaming to be like and them becoming the Netflix of gaming with Xcloud and GP. Phil Spencer said that in about 10 years there will be no need for dedicated hardware anymore and we'll all be gaming in the cloud on a ton of different devices.  

It doesn't sound like such a bad idea in theory, but I think there are a ton of things they're just not thinking through when they're comparing it to streaming music and movies. First of all, everybody listens to music and watches movies, but not everybody plays games, at least not the kind of games we see on consoles or pc. Games are interactive and are people really going to carry around their Xbox controller wherever they go? Also, If you get a bad signal while you're in middle of doing a perfect head shot in COD, people would get a lot more frustrated than if a video they're watching stops for a second while it's buffering. Core gaming is also about immersion so will people then really buy the latest AAA game and play it on a phone? The only use for cloud gaming I see is at home where you can stream to a second tv. But do we really need the Cloud for that, when a wireless hdmi dongle would do the same trick?

Last but not least, if cloud gaming actually does replace traditional gaming consoles and pc. How are they then so convinced they will become the Netflix of gaming? Would it really be impossible for behemoth companies like Nintendo and Sony to do the same thing just because they don't have their own cloud servers? I'm sure they will figure it out and in the end it'll still be about the games where we'll have Halo, Gears and Forza on MS's streaming platform vs Mario, Zelda on Nintendo's service and Sony's ip's on another. As things are now, I just don't see MS coming out of that a winner at all.

MS keeps talking like max 200m gamers on consoles is too small a market for them and how they're looking for ways to expand that. But shouldn't they first focus on actually winning over those 200m gamers and get people excited for their next gen exclusives? 

Look, i wont be replying to you after this for the simple reason that in 2 threads now, no matter what is said to you, all common sense goes out the window with your replys and turns into an "MS is going to fail no matter what" argument that just keeps repeating. So thank you but no i wont be getting into it with you no more, ill only reply to people who has an argument with some kind of sense behind not just wishful thinking based on nothing other then what you would like/hope will happen.



Conina said:
Leynos said:
When games become all cloud and publishers can take them down anytime they want and have full control. There is no craft anymore. It's just disposable marketable digital playgrounds designed purely around making money by nickel and diming. People will not appreciate a craft anymore esp as there will be none, but even for the few that are a work of craftsmanship, it won't matter. Just treat it as something disposable. Nothing will be valued anymore. I will not part take in that "future"

So most developers will stop making good games in a streaming future?

Look no further than mobile games. 99% trash designed to nickel and dime people. Nothing more. yes they will compete for your coin, not compete for trying to create something new or interesting. Much like Hollywood, they want to revisit the same well.  1983 Crash 99% trash made for a quick buck. Small indie devs may still want to make something but larger publishers will not. They are already headed that way. Loot boxes. MTX. "Surprise mechanics" yearly franchises. it's already happening.



Bite my shiny metal Cockpit!

zero129 said:
goopy20 said:

Next gen, their main focus is obviously on building the foundation for what they envision the future of gaming to be like and them becoming the Netflix of gaming with Xcloud and GP. Phil Spencer said that in about 10 years there will be no need for dedicated hardware anymore and we'll all be gaming in the cloud on a ton of different devices.  

It doesn't sound like such a bad idea in theory, but I think there are a ton of things they're just not thinking through when they're comparing it to streaming music and movies. First of all, everybody listens to music and watches movies, but not everybody plays games, at least not the kind of games we see on consoles or pc. Games are interactive and are people really going to carry around their Xbox controller wherever they go? Also, If you get a bad signal while you're in middle of doing a perfect head shot in COD, people would get a lot more frustrated than if a video they're watching stops for a second while it's buffering. Core gaming is also about immersion so will people then really buy the latest AAA game and play it on a phone? The only use for cloud gaming I see is at home where you can stream to a second tv. But do we really need the Cloud for that, when a wireless hdmi dongle would do the same trick?

Last but not least, if cloud gaming actually does replace traditional gaming consoles and pc. How are they then so convinced they will become the Netflix of gaming? Would it really be impossible for behemoth companies like Nintendo and Sony to do the same thing just because they don't have their own cloud servers? I'm sure they will figure it out and in the end it'll still be about the games where we'll have Halo, Gears and Forza on MS's streaming platform vs Mario, Zelda on Nintendo's service and Sony's ip's on another. As things are now, I just don't see MS coming out of that a winner at all.

MS keeps talking like max 200m gamers on consoles is too small a market for them and how they're looking for ways to expand that. But shouldn't they first focus on actually winning over those 200m gamers and get people excited for their next gen exclusives? 

Look, i wont be replying to you after this for the simple reason that in 2 threads now, no matter what is said to you, all common sense goes out the window with your replys and turns into an "MS is going to fail no matter what" argument that just keeps repeating. So thank you but no i wont be getting into it with you no more, ill only reply to people who has an argument with some kind of sense behind not just wishful thinking based on nothing other then what you would like/hope will happen.

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing” 

While this quote doesn’t directly apply here, you shouldn’t stop responding to ideas just because they don’t listen. You can’t allow ideas to be believed by others that are extremely arguable just because nobody challenged them. If anything look at it as good debate practice and I personally enjoy your take on countering arguments. 



 

 

zero129 said:
goopy20 said:

Next gen, their main focus is obviously on building the foundation for what they envision the future of gaming to be like and them becoming the Netflix of gaming with Xcloud and GP. Phil Spencer said that in about 10 years there will be no need for dedicated hardware anymore and we'll all be gaming in the cloud on a ton of different devices.  

It doesn't sound like such a bad idea in theory, but I think there are a ton of things they're just not thinking through when they're comparing it to streaming music and movies. First of all, everybody listens to music and watches movies, but not everybody plays games, at least not the kind of games we see on consoles or pc. Games are interactive and are people really going to carry around their Xbox controller wherever they go? Also, If you get a bad signal while you're in middle of doing a perfect head shot in COD, people would get a lot more frustrated than if a video they're watching stops for a second while it's buffering. Core gaming is also about immersion so will people then really buy the latest AAA game and play it on a phone? The only use for cloud gaming I see is at home where you can stream to a second tv. But do we really need the Cloud for that, when a wireless hdmi dongle would do the same trick?

Last but not least, if cloud gaming actually does replace traditional gaming consoles and pc. How are they then so convinced they will become the Netflix of gaming? Would it really be impossible for behemoth companies like Nintendo and Sony to do the same thing just because they don't have their own cloud servers? I'm sure they will figure it out and in the end it'll still be about the games where we'll have Halo, Gears and Forza on MS's streaming platform vs Mario, Zelda on Nintendo's service and Sony's ip's on another. As things are now, I just don't see MS coming out of that a winner at all.

MS keeps talking like max 200m gamers on consoles is too small a market for them and how they're looking for ways to expand that. But shouldn't they first focus on actually winning over those 200m gamers and get people excited for their next gen exclusives? 

Look, i wont be replying to you after this for the simple reason that in 2 threads now, no matter what is said to you, all common sense goes out the window with your replys and turns into an "MS is going to fail no matter what" argument that just keeps repeating. So thank you but no i wont be getting into it with you no more, ill only reply to people who has an argument with some kind of sense behind not just wishful thinking based on nothing other then what you would like/hope will happen.

Ever step back and think how your argumemt sounds to others? Cuz from where goopy stands and me and few others your point makes no sense. Or at least is based on nothing but hopes. 

I think this topic should die already untill more information arrives. While I do agree with goopy I don't think anybody's view will change at least untill both consoles get a full reveal with the games that are coming.



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.