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Forums - General Discussion - Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread

John2290 said:

haxxiy said:

Yes but we don't know enough about the disease, like I said it's a gamble and could pay off but it's still a gamble. Studies keep coming and it gets worse and worse, some recoveries in China are showing 30% less lung capacity and it's not known how widspread that will be. If they have to fight off Ncov-SARS-3, if it mutates, they likely won't make it with ICU or not. Qt the very least you are still comproming the youngs lungs for life. I'm caring for a patient who had mild Pneumonia 18 months back and the damage is there and before all this we were on track for hospital appointments to check a shadow on the lungs which could be cancer from the lasting effects of the pneumonia. The young aren't exempt from this like everyone thinks they are, it isn't that simple. Loads of them are still going to get critical and fight for their lives, maybe loose that battle. 

I think the point, or the gamble, as you will, is that the disease will get almost everyone in due time until transmission rates are brought down to 1:1 levels like the Flu.

Besides, yes, these are the consequences of severe pneumonia for many people. But at the same time, we've hundreds of thousands of young people smoking and vaping to the same effect. And 0.05% to 0.1% in that age bracket are dying yearly regardless, of various causes. So the cost isn't that different from the risks of an average year of life.



 

 

 

 

 

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John2290 said:
haxxiy said:

We won't know until we look back on it. The measures and choices are what they are, now and we'll have to live with them or the consequences, good or bad. Christ man, who would have thought we'd end up in this shit. 

True, it sucks. No one asked for this, to have to pay the price, and I'm reminded of this passage from the Lord of the Rings:

“I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.
"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”



 

 

 

 

 

Hmm lock away all the 70+ for 4 months. Is that feasible. What about the 60-70 that are also at risk and all those with pre-existing conditions. Who is going to take care of all the 70+ in retirement homes and those that need help daily. Who is going to bring them decontaminated food etc.

They are deeply worried that some older people will simply die at home from neglect, after they are quarantined, so want to start the quarantine as late as possible - some time within the next five to 20 days.

Wacky idea, and looking at Italy it's not just 70+ that need the ICU...



So 2 days ago my lrft lung was hurting and i was having trouble breathing but i usually have issues with this lung so i didn't care.
But now i have a sore throat and dry cough. Should i be worried?



SpokenTruth said:
Hiku said:

Didn't even occur to me that some people would do this, but of course they would pray on people's fears and exploit them.
I don't understand how these people can live with themselves.

This is the same guy that claimed in deposition last year that the media put him into a state of psychosis which made him call the Sandy Hook school shooting a hoax.

I didn't know AJ only promoted conspiracy theories. Thank goodness for that headline. I almost thought he also promoted nutritional supplements as well among other things. Wait are those bad too?

I personally am helping to fight the virus, by remaining out of public as much as possible. Does that guarantee I won't contract and spread it, and won't perish because of it? If those things were to happen, was I ever really helping to fight the virus? Does chemo help fight cancer? If it doesn't work, or there's a recurrence, is it ok to say it fights cancer? Does a healthier person have a better chance at fighting off Covid?



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John2290 said:

Sorry to hear of the stress and I don't know how this translates to America, I'm assuming as you said clerk, but It let up here in Ireland today, this morning being an example of stocked shelves for the most part and images of warehouses still filled with supplies and the public seems to have calmed. In Italy supply chains are still open, people can still go to the supermarkets for food and they are lovked down hard and production isn't going anywhere for the time being. In Ireland, That was maybe 48 to 72 hours depending on where you calculate the rush starting. 24 hours maybe since it peaked yesterday morning. And I don't know is this is just a ttempory thing as they announced this afternoon they are extending the school closure to 16 weeks (Up from 3 weeks). There is an end to your current siuation in sight at any rate. 

What exactly is the situation vis-a-vis the virus itself in Ireland? Did the number of additional daily transmissions start to decrease before the rush to grocery stores and supermarkets ended? Does Ireland have the transmission rate in much better control than the United States where it's just tripled in the last week?




There were 213 nuc cases at 2pm now were at 269. Whole state over 600



Hiku said:

Sorry to hear that people are mean and getting physical. Shouldn't have to put up with that. And it's not on you, but if you can try to maintain your distance from certain things to prevent situations like that from happening, it might be worth thinking of. On one hand it may add to the stress having yet another thing to worry about. But it probably beats getting pushed into a door, etc.

One thing I'm wondering is if stores shouldn't have a limit per household on items that people commonly hoard? I feel like a lot of these shortages are created because people think they're going to run out. So they're the ones creating the problem by hoarding them for no reason.

A lot of countries are certainly very unprepared for situations like this. Even if they have the money for it, supplies can still be hard to come by.
U.S.A. is one of the ones I worry about the most. 100 million people expected to get infected, and 3~million deaths... And that's probably not counting when the hospitals are full and can't take any more.

China, in spite of handling this poorly at the start (trying to cover it up, misrepresenting figures, etc) have seemingly handled this incredibly well.
They opened up several temporary hospitals specifically to handle the corona virus. And yesterday they closed down the last one, because it's no longer needed.

While the richest country in the history of the world has done very little considering their standing.
No guaranteed paid sick leave, so sick ppl still go to work, ride buses and trains, serve food and take care of people's kids, just to survive.
Millions of people uninsured or under insured, so treatment for the condition becomes a financial problem when it shouldn't.

Avoiding people from coming up behind one in a place as crowded as work was on Friday is tough. I shall do my best at defensive walking, but it's also not like I try to get hit.

Concerning the idea of limiting the number of a given item that people can purchase, yeah, the store already did that vis-a-vis the top-selling items like water and toilet paper (e.g. no more than four water cases per customer) and we ran out anyway because we had that many customers. There's nothing that can stop this outside of maybe some truly epic mark-ups, like raising the price of everything by over 1,000% maybe to slow down people's rate of buy. I can't imagine anything short of drastic and highly unpopular steps like that being effective.

You're right about the Chinese example though, they've done a pretty good job of containing the spread of coronavirus and there are lots of lessons that we SHOULD be learning from their experience here that we simply don't seem to want to. Here's an obvious for-example: the CDC guidelines here in the U.S. suggesting that people who believe they have coronavirus should quarantine themselves at home with family is a strategy that we should already know, based on the Chinese experience, doesn't work because 75% of their transmissions were between family members! The government there found it much more effective to temporarily take the sick away from their families and into a more actual isolation. Harsh, but it worked. Just as an obvious example. Our current CDC guidelines are asinine and reflect the attitude of an administration that just simply doesn't care.

I would also highlight the success story of South Korea, which I've found to be even more remarkable because they left their borders open and everything and have still managed to contain the virus spread with striking efficacy.

The single most important step to be taking is one that we should've taken weeks ago, which is widely testing the population to get a sense of where and how widespread the problem is. Without that, we're fighting it blind and inevitably falling way behind the curve. Our response so far has been slower and worse than Iran's, slower and worse even than Italy's, and we're going to have a more severe problem than those countries wind up with in the end as a result.



NightlyPoe said:
jason1637 said:

There were 213 nuc cases at 2pm now were at 269. Whole state over 600

And De Blasio is STILL refusing to close New York City schools.

Dude, I get that it will cause logistical problems.  Figure it out.  You can't leave the biggest collection of Petri dishes in the city open because subway and healthcare workers will have to find a babysitter for their kids.  We regularly close schools for weeks and months at a time and somehow the healthcare infrastructure doesn't collapse every June.

As it is, it was irresponsible not to have closed the schools sometime last week.

Yeah his approach makes no sense. There has been cases in schools and they've only closed these individual schools for a day.

Other states have set schools up as day care centers and food centers or got rid of mandatory attendance.  The Governor has already dropped the 180 school days requirement so De Blasio can close it for awhile if he decides to.



NightlyPoe said:
I really wish that these stores had instituted strict limits on purchases early on. Now we've got lines out the door to supermarkets. And it's not even like we'll realistically use all that much more of most of the products that are now in scarce supply.

It's self-reinforcing at this point. Everyone sees everyone else emptying out the stores and worries there won't be anything left by their next shopping trip, so maybe they too should go ahead and stock up while there's still stuff on the shelf...and so, in this way, the panic becomes a vicious cycle where everyone responds to everyone else's panic endlessly.