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Forums - General Discussion - Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread

SvennoJ said:
S.Peelman said:

The mayor of Amsterdam is a dumb ****.

I'm glad everyone here, literally everyone from general people to tv-people to politicians to the RIVM, is genuinely pissed off about her. Supporting the Black Lives Matter cause in the US is one thing, but allowing a protest of 5000 people in the center of Amsterdam (which was completely against the rules of the national government I might add) is the dumbest thing one could ever do right now. I don't know what I'm hoping for actually; a new wave of corona infections in two weeks so we can all dumb the bill on Halsema's doorstep, or no sustainable rise in infections at all, so we can conclude all corona measures aren't really necessary all that much anymore.

We'll see.

If there's a rise in cases in the coming weeks, we know who to blame.

These one off large gathering won't have that much of an effect. It was already noted at the very start that closing large events doesn't have all that much impact. It's a numbers game. 5000 people, only a few infected, won't spread all that much out doors. Of course the ones that do get it will then pass it on to family.

In contrast, opening bars etc up, even with max 30 people, will have a national effect.

Still, not smart to do this, especially not in a hot zone which I assume Amsterdam is (or was). It's not so much getting infected at the event, all these people need to travel there and back, more exposure on the way, crowding public transport driving others closer together as well.

Anyway a rise in the coming weeks is to be expected, yet much more so from schools, bars/restaurants, terraces, cinemas, musea/monuments, cultural institutions, all of your phase 2 changes.

If it goes on for days in multiple cities like in the states, an effect is to be expected.


It's the same here anyway, Toronto protests for Regis Kachinski-Paquet
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/protest-toronto-regis-korchinski-paquet-1.5591745
But it looks to have been a one time protest, I don't see any follow up stories.

The government here says it's ok to protest but asks people to wear masks and use signs and other ways to make noise instead of shouting.


Those people come from all over, travel times here are short, so who knows what happens. Some wore masks, some didn’t. In those things that are opening, every one practices social distancing and all kinds of rules and protections to ensure there’s no further spread, things don’t just open blindly, but this didn’t. The real issue is that this is an unprecedented blunder in every way, and undermines everything the rest of the country has worked for.

If nothing happens, people will second guess any future measure (or prolonging of existing ones) the government takes against the coronavirus, and at some point they will just be ignored and questions will be asked about why we did what we did in the first place. If something does happen, we’ll have to lock down again. This is already happening, just one day after the fact. For example there will be no explanation as to why we couldn’t just have the yearly remembrance of the dead (of the Second World War) four weeks ago on the same square, while now all of a sudden this gathering for a cause that, with all due respect, is of no relevance here nor will it have any impact on what happens in the US whatsoever is a-okay according to misses mayor. So why can’t we have sports matches, or outdoor events. Or why can’t we visit our grandparents? It also undermines the point of their own protest, because now nobody gives a sh*t what it was about.

I haven’t even agreed with every action that’s been taken to control this virus, but even I’m royally pissed off, in a way that doesn’t happen often, and with me pretty much everyone else. But yeah, we’ll know soon enough. No worries though, I’m also just venting a bit here.

Last edited by S.Peelman - on 02 June 2020

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SvennoJ said:

Major setback while Ontario numbers are climbing again

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/at-least-164-migrant-workers-at-one-ontario-farm-have-tested-positive-for-covid-19-1.4964690

It’s asparagus harvest season, but some of the fields in Norfolk County, Ontario, are all but empty following an outbreak of COVID-19 that has spread to 164 migrant workers from Mexico, temporarily halting production.

Last Thursday, a worker at Scotlynn Group complained of symptoms; just days later, more than half of the 216 migrant workers tested positive. Seven are hospitalized, including two in intensive care. Health officials have already started contact tracing while more still awaited results. Only 33 are able to work in the field.

The workers arrived from Mexico to Biddle’s farm back in early April - already delayed due to the pandemic and travel restrictions - and underwent a 14-day quarantine before starting work. Everyone came out of the quarantine healthy and nobody showed any symptoms prior to Thursday, according to Biddle.
https://www.simcoereformer.ca/news/local-news/farmer-at-centre-of-outbreak-spent-700000-to-house-workers-during-isolation-period

Biddle relies on the migrant workers to produce millions of pounds of asparagus and sweet corn. To ensure his asparagus crop is harvested this year, he put out a call for local help on Facebook, offering $25 an hour. He said 150 locals were confirmed to help, but with a pay hike that’s nearly double what the migrant workers make, advocates like MWAC’s Aviles are not happy, noting that they have been working in these conditions for decades.

“There’s a lot of anger right now,” she said. Adding to the concern is the uncertainty around compensation for the workers while they are sick.

"They have passed quarantine, and now they are sick with the virus. They don't know what is going to happen with them, and in the meantime who is going to feed their families?"

I cycle through Norfolk county passing these farms on warm days like this one. Mostly passed the fruit farms though who were all very busy planting :/

Heard this the other day and wasn't all that surprised. Scotlynn is a massive farming and trucking operation here. With the many truckers coming in and out of the operation, it's totally possible it got spread to the migrant workers unknowingly. Plus typically, these workers are bused into town once a week for an evening so they can get supplies they need like food for the next week.

Many of the smaller farms here didn't bother bringing in help for this very reason. Too risky due to Covid 19 and too expensive for 'locals', especially considering it tends to take 2 locals to cover 1 migrant workers productivity. Scotlynn have giant contracts with big food corps they have to fulfill, so they will do what they have to, to meet those obligations, even if they have to take the financial hit this year.

Many of the vegetable fields are empty or being disked down. There's Gov bailout programs that a bunch of farmers are taking advantage of which will ease the pain somewhat, but if farming wasn't tough enough now, it's really going to take a big hit this year for some. 

Norfolk isn't very dense at all, even in the towns, so we'll see what happens in terms of it spreading.

Last edited by EricHiggin - on 02 June 2020

S.Peelman said:

Those people come from all over, travel times here are short, so who knows what happens. Some wore masks, some didn’t. In those things that are opening, every one practices social distancing and all kinds of rules and protections to ensure there’s no further spread, things don’t just open blindly, but this didn’t. The real issue is that this is an unprecedented blunder in every way, and undermines everything the rest of the country has worked for.

If nothing happens, people will second guess any future measure (or prolonging of existing ones) the government takes against the coronavirus, and at some point they will just be ignored and questions will be asked about why we did what we did in the first place. If something does happen, we’ll have to lock down again. This is already happening, just one day after the fact. For example there will be no explanation as to why we couldn’t just have the yearly remembrance of the dead (of the Second World War) four weeks ago on the same square, while now all of a sudden this gathering for a cause that, with all due respect, is of no relevance here nor will it have any impact on what happens in the US whatsoever is a-okay according to misses mayor. So why can’t we have sports matches, or outdoor events. Or why can’t we visit our grandparents? It also undermines the point of their own protest, because now nobody gives a sh*t what it was about.

I haven’t even agreed with every action that’s been taken to control this virus, but even I’m royally pissed off, in a way that doesn’t happen often, and with me pretty much everyone else. But yeah, we’ll know soon enough. No worries though, I’m also just venting a bit here.

I get your frustration. I'm just glad it's for a good reason this time (in Toronto) instead of to flock together to watch the cherry blossoms or sit on top of each other in the parks on a nice day. I'm also relieved to see many people wore face masks and that it stayed peaceful. But true, in the end, it will still aid the spread, slow down restarting the economy and it will end up causing extra deaths that could have been prevented.

EricHiggin said:

Heard this the other day and wasn't all that surprised. Scotlynn is a massive farming and trucking operation here. With the many truckers coming in and out of the operation, it's totally possible it got spread to the migrant workers unknowingly. Plus typically, these workers are bused into town once a week for an evening so they can get supplies they need like food for the next week.

Many of the smaller farms here didn't bother bringing in help for this very reason. Too risky due to Covid 19 and too expensive for 'locals', especially considering it tends to take 2 locals to cover 1 migrant workers productivity. Scotlynn have giant contracts with big food corps they have to fulfill, so they will do what they have to, to meet those obligations, even if they have to take the financial hit this year.

Many of the vegetable fields are empty or being disked down. There's Gov bailout programs that a bunch of farmers are taking advantage of which will ease the pain somewhat, but if farming wasn't tough enough now, it's really going to take a big hit this year for some. 

Norfolk isn't very dense at all, even in the towns, so we'll see what happens in terms of it spreading.

Yeah apart from the fruit farms I did notice plenty empty fields around :/ I often cycle from Paris to Brantford then along the LE & N trail to Oakland, Waterford, Bloomsburg, Simcoe and sometimes on to Port Dover. Then back on Blueline road and old highway 24 along Wilsonville. Today I turned back in Waterford, pretty quiet there today. I usually see the migrant workers queued up at the bank in Waterford late summer.

It sucks for farmers, locals cost twice as much and do half the work. I wouldn't be any use at it either with my bad back. I can chop down trees into bits but anything low to the ground and after an hour I'm done for. Biggest challenge atm is to get rid of knotweed invading :/ Pita to dig it all out.

Anyway, with this outbreak and likely also as result from the gatherings in Toronto last week, Ontario is on the rise again.

Thanks to Quebec declining the national total is still going down.
Ontario is currently the biggest contributor in Canada.



SvennoJ said:
EricHiggin said:

Heard this the other day and wasn't all that surprised. Scotlynn is a massive farming and trucking operation here. With the many truckers coming in and out of the operation, it's totally possible it got spread to the migrant workers unknowingly. Plus typically, these workers are bused into town once a week for an evening so they can get supplies they need like food for the next week.

Many of the smaller farms here didn't bother bringing in help for this very reason. Too risky due to Covid 19 and too expensive for 'locals', especially considering it tends to take 2 locals to cover 1 migrant workers productivity. Scotlynn have giant contracts with big food corps they have to fulfill, so they will do what they have to, to meet those obligations, even if they have to take the financial hit this year.

Many of the vegetable fields are empty or being disked down. There's Gov bailout programs that a bunch of farmers are taking advantage of which will ease the pain somewhat, but if farming wasn't tough enough now, it's really going to take a big hit this year for some. 

Norfolk isn't very dense at all, even in the towns, so we'll see what happens in terms of it spreading.

Yeah apart from the fruit farms I did notice plenty empty fields around :/ I often cycle from Paris to Brantford then along the LE & N trail to Oakland, Waterford, Bloomsburg, Simcoe and sometimes on to Port Dover. Then back on Blueline road and old highway 24 along Wilsonville. Today I turned back in Waterford, pretty quiet there today. I usually see the migrant workers queued up at the bank in Waterford late summer.

It sucks for farmers, locals cost twice as much and do half the work. I wouldn't be any use at it either with my bad back. I can chop down trees into bits but anything low to the ground and after an hour I'm done for. Biggest challenge atm is to get rid of knotweed invading :/ Pita to dig it all out.

Anyway, with this outbreak and likely also as result from the gatherings in Toronto last week, Ontario is on the rise again.

Thanks to Quebec declining the national total is still going down.
Ontario is currently the biggest contributor in Canada.

Luckily Biddle himself can easily afford this problem overall. Ever been down Radical Road along the bluffs a couple km's outside of Port Dover?

This was a serious rumor going around for years.

Wanna guess who's property this really is? It ain't Elton, that's for sure.

Unfortunately while most scrape by gettin low, few sip Corona on high.

But ya, not good for the numbers. Going to have to avoid the Simcoe area as that's where the majority of migrants are taken for supplies. Very well may have spread to locals or other migrants in town and is present on other farms now.

If we ain't growing cancer sticks, or burning coal for power, we're spreading Covid I guess. Can't Norfolk do anything right?



EricHiggin said:

Luckily Biddle himself can easily afford this problem overall. Ever been down Radical Road along the bluffs a couple km's outside of Port Dover?

This was a serious rumor going around for years.

Wanna guess who's property this really is? It ain't Elton, that's for sure.

Unfortunately while most scrape by gettin low, few sip Corona on high.

But ya, not good for the numbers. Going to have to avoid the Simcoe area as that's where the majority of migrants are taken for supplies. Very well may have spread to locals or other migrants in town and is present on other farms now.

If we ain't growing cancer sticks, or burning coal for power, we're spreading Covid I guess. Can't Norfolk do anything right?

Yep, I've been on that road. That property looks insane on sat view. Private sand beach with rescue boat lol.

Norfolk maintains the trails very well! Unlike Cambridge that closed the Speed island trail for nearly 3 years to widen the 401. I don't know what the plan is in Paris either. Houses are build everywhere at a rapid pace while the schools were already full (after several smaller ones got closed) and now of course all are closed. Downtown (if you can call it that) was already prone to gridlock. It's basically one street and we only have 2 bridges across the Grand River. It's a circus when one of the two bridges needs to close a lane for a while for maintenance. But eh, we got another Tim Hortons so all is fine lol.



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SvennoJ said:
EricHiggin said:

Luckily Biddle himself can easily afford this problem overall. Ever been down Radical Road along the bluffs a couple km's outside of Port Dover?

This was a serious rumor going around for years.

Wanna guess who's property this really is? It ain't Elton, that's for sure.

Unfortunately while most scrape by gettin low, few sip Corona on high.

But ya, not good for the numbers. Going to have to avoid the Simcoe area as that's where the majority of migrants are taken for supplies. Very well may have spread to locals or other migrants in town and is present on other farms now.

If we ain't growing cancer sticks, or burning coal for power, we're spreading Covid I guess. Can't Norfolk do anything right?

Yep, I've been on that road. That property looks insane on sat view. Private sand beach with rescue boat lol.

Norfolk maintains the trails very well! Unlike Cambridge that closed the Speed island trail for nearly 3 years to widen the 401. I don't know what the plan is in Paris either. Houses are build everywhere at a rapid pace while the schools were already full (after several smaller ones got closed) and now of course all are closed. Downtown (if you can call it that) was already prone to gridlock. It's basically one street and we only have 2 bridges across the Grand River. It's a circus when one of the two bridges needs to close a lane for a while for maintenance. But eh, we got another Tim Hortons so all is fine lol.

Most of that came from trucking before the explosive farming expansion more recently. There were quiet rumors that those trucks that went to the U.S. quite often, were also carrying snow... All year round... Not sure if there's any truth to it but can't help but wonder with property investments like that.

When it comes to nature related stuff, Norfolk does it right for the most part. The coal plant kinda balanced that out until recently, lol, but we corrected that as well. Brant is expanding quickly in the Paris direction, as well as Paris itself. If it were me, I'd get out of there now. The property has got to be worth quite a bit at the moment. Reminds me of Caledonia. Been passing through there recently. It's expanding like crazy because of Hamilton, and right now both bridges there are closed for maintenance. Who's bright idea was that?

If Covid were to spread from here to anywhere, it would most likely be Brantford. That's where most Norfolk residents go to 'the big city'. Home of the Great One. Hopefully that doesn't become the case and it can be nipped right here and now.



EricHiggin said:

Most of that came from trucking before the explosive farming expansion more recently. There were quiet rumors that those trucks that went to the U.S. quite often, were also carrying snow... All year round... Not sure if there's any truth to it but can't help but wonder with property investments like that.

When it comes to nature related stuff, Norfolk does it right for the most part. The coal plant kinda balanced that out until recently, lol, but we corrected that as well. Brant is expanding quickly in the Paris direction, as well as Paris itself. If it were me, I'd get out of there now. The property has got to be worth quite a bit at the moment. Reminds me of Caledonia. Been passing through there recently. It's expanding like crazy because of Hamilton, and right now both bridges there are closed for maintenance. Who's bright idea was that?

If Covid were to spread from here to anywhere, it would most likely be Brantford. That's where most Norfolk residents go to 'the big city'. Home of the Great One. Hopefully that doesn't become the case and it can be nipped right here and now.

Ha that reminds me of the movie The Mule. The character that that's based on is a big name in the daylily hybridizing world, which is what my wife is into. We have a one acre property right on the river which we got a good deal on in 2007. It's worth at least double already, quiet part of town on the water. We've had people walk in asking if we wanted to sell the property numerous times. She has thousands of daylilies in the gardens so moving is not an option haha. (Stressful with this crisis, hard to get new plants in, shipping is not worth the trouble, UPS is the worst)

This is my wife's garden
https://www.finegardening.com/article/a-secret-garden-in-paris
I just cut the grass (less every year, gardens keep expanding) trim the trees and maintain the pool. (and help move dirt and trays around, no green thumb here)
She won a bunch of awards again from the Ontario Daylily society and was on the board for a while but quit. (Mostly run by old bickering men, she was the youngest there and a woman on top of that...)

Brant country still stands at 109 reported cases (since last weekend). The closest is a small outbreak in the Ferraro plant next to the 403 (near Hardy road). But yeah, expanding like crazy everywhere. Brantford is adding a new distribution center, Paris is adding a business park on the 403, Ayr is building a lot of new houses, Woodstock is growing, urban sprawl is speeding up.



State of the world (bad)

The USA is back to week over week growth, 107.3% 3 day average, accelerating.
Europe is still in decline albeit small overall, 95.8% 3 day average, steady.
The world overall is growing week over week, 117.4% the last 3 days straight (just over 30 days to double)
3 day average for the world stands at 110K new reported cases daily with 30.2K deaths in the last week, 4,310 per day on average.


South America is on top and currently climbing 136% week over week (just under 16 days to double)
South America is only two days away from passing 1 million reported cases, 33.4K new cases 3 day average.

Asia moved up to second place, climbing 122% week over week (just under 25 days to double)
Nearly 29K new cases daily added to its 1.2 million total.

North America dropped to 3rd, climbing 105% week over week thanks to the increase in the USA.
Europe gliding down at 96% week over week.
Africa increasing the fastest atm at 141% week over week (just over 14 days to double)
Oceania safely at the bottom with only 12 case per day (3 day average)

This thing is so far from being under control :(



I picked up my kids stuff from school today. Since the schools aren't re-opening anymore this year they organized a collection. It was an elaborate process. First book a 15 minute time slot through an app that didn't work right since they forgot to send the event code so you couldn't complete it This morning we got the code, so we immediately booked the next time slot to beat the rush (if any) and off to school.

Only 1 person allowed to show up.
Arrive, wash hands #1, then put face mask on.
Follow the lines to the gym entrance around at the back of the school.
No parents there yet (not the only one missing the code lol) so inside, wash hands #2.
I wasn't on the printed out list (booked just 15 minutes earlier) but no problem, explained the event code was missing, they'll resend the email.
There were at least half a dozen people there, all face masks, stuff in plastic bags spread out behind collection tables.
They put the 2 bags with all the things from our kids on a table, picked it up, wash hands #3 on exit through the other door.
Walk around the school again along the other side, stuff in the trunk, wash hands #4, take off mask put away, wash hands #5.
One other person arrived (there's 3 days to collect, big school, gonna be busy later)
Arrive home, wash hands #6, leave the stuff in the trunk for a couple days just to be sure.

Maybe school will start earlier next year (August was mentioned) but it's all still very much up in the air.



Meanwhile Trudeau wants to coordinate a global recovery plan. (How about you first get this thing under control in Canada)
https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/trudeau-positions-canada-as-champion-of-co-ordinated-global-recovery-plan-1.4966870

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau will continue today to make the case for a co-ordinated global response to cushion the economic impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on the world's poorest countries. He'll be among the leaders and heads of state to deliver remarks during a virtual summit of the Organization of African, Caribbean, and Pacific States (OACPS). Among other things, he is expected to promise that Canada will partner with developing countries, which stand to be the hardest hit by the pandemic, and help to rally the world behind measures like debt relief to help them survive the crisis.

Nothing wrong with that, things will get worse :(

Without a global co-ordinated recovery plan, the UN estimates the pandemic could slash nearly US$8.5 trillion from the world economy over the next two years, forcing 34.3 million people into extreme poverty this year and potentially 130 million more over the course of the decade.

However, let's try to keep as many people alive first. It feels a bit odd to now start planning ahead after botching the initial response domestically.




Sweden is starting to realize maybe
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/scientist-admits-sweden-could-have-battled-virus-better-1.4967014

Sweden's chief epidemiologist showed contrition Wednesday as criticism mounted over the Scandinavian country's hotly debated method of fighting the coronavirus, which has resulted in one of the highest death rates per capita in the world.

Sweden has stood out among European nations and the world for the way it has handled the pandemic, not shutting down the country or the economy like others but relying on citizens' sense of civic duty. Swedish authorities have advised people to practice social distancing, but schools, bars and restaurants have been kept open the entire time. Only gatherings of more than 50 people have been banned.

"I think there is potential for improvement in what we have done in Sweden, quite clearly," Anders Tegnell of the Public Health Agency told Swedish radio.

Sweden currently stands at 4468 reported deaths, adding 56 daily. Currently 9th in Europe for reported deaths closing in on the Netherlands. Norway in comparison managed to keep it down to 237 deaths, Finland 320 and Denmark 580.

The moves recommended by Tegnell have made Sweden a bit of a local pariah and didn't spare the Swedish economy. More than 76,000 people have been made redundant since the outbreak began and unemployment, which now stands at 7.9%, is expected to climb higher. Finance Minister Magdalena Andersson has said Sweden's economy, which relies heavily on exports, will shrink 7% in 2020 and the Scandinavian country was headed for "a very deep economic crisis."

Last week, neighbouring Norway and Denmark said they were dropping mutual border controls but would keep Sweden out of a Nordic "travel bubble." Danes said they will reopen the border next month to residents of neighbouring Germany, as well as to Norway and Iceland, as it accelerates the easing of its coronavirus lockdown. However, Denmark, which has a bridge that goes directly to Sweden, has postponed a decision on whether to reopen to Swedish visitors until after the summer.

Last edited by SvennoJ - on 03 June 2020

SvennoJ said:





Meanwhile Trudeau wants to coordinate a global recovery plan. (How about you first get this thing under control in Canada)
https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/trudeau-positions-canada-as-champion-of-co-ordinated-global-recovery-plan-1.4966870



Sweden is starting to realize maybe
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/scientist-admits-sweden-could-have-battled-virus-better-1.4967014

Sweden's chief epidemiologist showed contrition Wednesday as criticism mounted over the Scandinavian country's hotly debated method of fighting the coronavirus, which has resulted in one of the highest death rates per capita in the world.

Sweden has stood out among European nations and the world for the way it has handled the pandemic, not shutting down the country or the economy like others but relying on citizens' sense of civic duty. Swedish authorities have advised people to practice social distancing, but schools, bars and restaurants have been kept open the entire time. Only gatherings of more than 50 people have been banned.

"I think there is potential for improvement in what we have done in Sweden, quite clearly," Anders Tegnell of the Public Health Agency told Swedish radio.

Sweden currently stands at 4468 reported deaths, adding 56 daily. Currently 9th in Europe for reported deaths closing in on the Netherlands. Norway in comparison managed to keep it down to 237 deaths, Finland 320 and Denmark 580.

The moves recommended by Tegnell have made Sweden a bit of a local pariah and didn't spare the Swedish economy. More than 76,000 people have been made redundant since the outbreak began and unemployment, which now stands at 7.9%, is expected to climb higher. Finance Minister Magdalena Andersson has said Sweden's economy, which relies heavily on exports, will shrink 7% in 2020 and the Scandinavian country was headed for "a very deep economic crisis."

Cases are starting to come down in Canada, so things are starting to look good over there and schools should be opened immediately, kids are very-low risk group.

I'm not sure what lockdown Canada has had, but it doesn't look very successful as the downtrend in cases has been slow.

As for Anders Tegnell he said today he wouldn't change a thing based on the knowledge he knew at the time and overall what we doing is still good. What he meant if there's was something specific that causes a lot of outbreaks could have been closed, but he says so far he can't find any but we might learn now when countries starting to open up.

Source:https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.gp.se%2Fnyheter%2Fsverige%2Fnej-anders-tegnell-har-inte-sv%25C3%25A4ngt-om-strategin-1.28790285

Swedish: https://www.gp.se/nyheter/sverige/nej-anders-tegnell-har-inte-sv%C3%A4ngt-om-strategin-1.28790285

Last edited by Trumpstyle - on 03 June 2020

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