Forums - Gaming Discussion - Games that were too good for their own good.

JWeinCom said:
Hiku said:

Well, I think a huge addition to not just Soul Calibur, but fighting games in general, came later in Online play functionality.
Fighting games are one of those genres that would probably sell a lot less than they already do nowadays, if there was no way to play vs other people online. Because they're generally considered difficult to learn. And for those who grew up with them since the beginning they probably don't have the same time and opportunity to get a couple of their friends together in the same room in person, like they used to back when they were kids.

Online functionality was the main reason I bought Soul Calibur 6 so that's true enough, but I was more thinking of improvements to the gameplay itself.  Dunno if you're right about sales of fighting games though.  In my younger days, I was content to play Soul Calibur for hours a day just against the computers.  I'd imagine more people then you'd think still buy fighting games just to do that or play local multiplayer.  

Edit:  Also though Soul Calibur 2 does have a version with added online play.  Was tempted to go for that, but I figured the userbase would be bigger on SC6 and even with that it takes longer to find a match than I'd like.

I also liked to do that when I was younger. Though it wasn't necessarily my age that changed this, but because I got more into playing them competitively.
I don't know that it's more than I think that still do that, but rather that fighting games are generally pretty niche, with a few exceptions. Mortal Kombat for example has a very well made story mode. And Dragonball FighterZ is also a game that managed to be more appealing than usual to a non-competitive crowd, which can be seen in the 90% drop it had in its online userbase from week 1 to week 2. It started off at around 42 000 on Steam, which was a record for a fighting game on the platform, and then quickly went down to the normal 1k-2k that they usually have in their first few months on the market.

But I doubt there would be nearly as many entries for games like Blaz Blue, Guilty Gear, King of Fighters, etc, if there was no online component, because for a lot of them that aren't named Street Fighter or Tekken, they probably wouldn't be profitable enough without the competitive playerbase.

Last edited by Hiku - on 29 December 2019

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Cyran said:
Hiku said:

I feel pretty much the same way. They tried some new things in 3 that were hit or miss. I liked being able to play from the perspective of different main characters. Especially as the badguys. But the friendly fire and support system in combat was wonky.
Although I really liked 5, as it reminded me a lot of 2, and it's my second favorite in the series.

I might have to give 5 a try at some point then.  I liked the first one a lot and you saying you liked the 5th more.  My only fear is as I get older my patience for JRPG is not what it use to be.  I finished Dragon quest 11 but other then that it been awhile since I made it through one.

Well if you liked the world and characters in Suikoden 1 and 2, then 5 could be interesting as it delves into some of the characters you know from those games, like Georg Prime, Lorelai and Killey, etc. Similar to how Suikoden 4 showed us Ted's past. Although unlike Sui 4, Sui 5 was also a good game as well to boot.

Though I can't say how well it holds up today, or after you've already experienced many more Jrpgs, since I played it back when it came out.
But if you're interested in a unique Jrpg experience, I'd recommend Nier: Automata or Persona 5 if you haven't played those.

Last edited by Hiku - on 29 December 2019

Farsala said:
Hiku said:

I haven't played every version, but DW3 is my favorite partially because I liked how they handled the ultimate weapons in that game.
Getting the death element on Lu Xun's special attack was OP, but at that point in the game, who cares? It's just fun.

I just revealed it as my #5 game, I speak a lot about it and Wu was certainly my favorite. Gan Ning's ultimate weapon was just straight fun too with the extra lightning effects.

Damn, I miss dynasty warriors. The last one I played was 5... 

I'd say it also peaked with 3, especially with extreme legends.

I did quite enjoy 4 though as well. 



Half-Life 2 (and the episodes). Easy one this. It was so good and had such a big impact on the industry and its genre that Valve has been reluctant to revisit the series and release another mainline entry ever since. My guess is they've tried developing a Half-Life 3 at least twice, and each time they don't feel that what they're working on will live up to the expectations that Half-Life 2 set, so they've scrapped it and gone back to the drawing board. Alyx is an interesting way around that problem - because it's clearly a spin-off and part of an entirely new way of playing games, they're in effect looking to replicate what they did with Half-Life 2 all over again (in the sense of introducing new expectations to a genre in its relative infancy and with low-ish expectations - in this case VR). Also of course has other advantages, because Valve as a corporation has a vested interest in VR being a success.

Shadow of the Colossus. The game being too good basically killed Team Ico. It set such insanely high expectations for their next release that it ended up being in development hell for an entire generation, before it was finally pushed out (and somehow, incredibly, it wasn't awful) with additional support from Sony, and Team Ico then became defunct.

I haven't played them, but the first two Shenmue games. Obviously they were critically highly praised, but more importantly they cultivated such a strong fan base that some 15 years after the second one came out people were still begging for another one. Not just that but it was seen as an automatic 'E3 winning move' when it was (sort of) announced as exclusive at Sony's E3 conference. The reaction to the announcement was insane. It was never going to live up to such high expectations, especially when it became quickly clear (to me at any rate) that it was basically an indie project, but the first two just had such a strong cult status that people were willing to overlook the indie nature of III for a long time.

One I have played: Metal Gear Solid. The first one was amazing, and every one thereafter has been... well, just dull and awkward, in my opinion. I think Kojima and co seriously struggled to make the transition to and combine fully three dimensional graphics and gameplay systems with Metal Gear Solid's sequels.

Last edited by Machina - on 29 December 2019

Not an early game in the series, but I’m afraid that Smash Ultimate will suffer from this. With so much content and ‘everyone is her’ plus more, where can they go for Smash 6?



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Wizardry 8. The Swan song of classic cRPGs - and Sir-Tech had to sell adspace in the game just to get the game finished (they had to cut some sidequests and one dungeon along the way) and out and folded directly afterwards.

Also, Super Metroid. After all, the only reason why the N64 doesn't have any Metroid game is that nobody had the confidence to follow up on that game, it was just way too much of a tough act to follow.



Donkey Kong County 2, and Mario Party 4. Every thing after those seems to miss the mark.



Ask stefl1504 for a sig, even if you don't need one.

Super Smash Bros. Brawl. After Subspace Emisary, any other single player mode they have come up with feels like shit.

Also, Kingdom Hearts. The first one. I feel like everything went downhill from there. Not only it has my favourite combat in the series, but unlike the future titles... it's worth for more than its combat. You had platforming sections, puzzles... also your allies seemed to keep up with you pretty much all the time. They were able to take care of enemies themselves and even do significant damage to bosses.

All of that was lost in the future titles. Cutscene, walk, battle, walk, battle, cutscene, miniboss, cutscene, walk, battle, walk, boss. And that's it. And allies are completely powerless. By the end of the game, they won't even be able to keep up with you because you can fly, dash and roll mid air and they can't. They seem like a joke...



ironmanDX said:
Farsala said:

I just revealed it as my #5 game, I speak a lot about it and Wu was certainly my favorite. Gan Ning's ultimate weapon was just straight fun too with the extra lightning effects.

Damn, I miss dynasty warriors. The last one I played was 5... 

I'd say it also peaked with 3, especially with extreme legends.

I did quite enjoy 4 though as well. 

I enjoyed 4 almost as much as 3, and I played 5 more than I should have. But I always come back to 3.



Somehow, whatever you said about SC applied to Tekken until not so long ago, everyone thought the game peaked but they successfully managed to revitalize the series with T7. So there is still hope for SC.

As for SC6, the rock/paper/scissor is not meh, it's terrible, it kills the pace of the fights way too often and for what? the game didn't need this, it always stood out with as a flashy fighting game despite the lack of super moves (which 2D fighters employ too much of it to make up for the lack of flash). What pushed me further from the game though is how much they changed Mitsurugi. I either didn't take enough time to play the game or he is really a different character now.

From what I understand, SC6 had a small budget and continued support had to be green-lit if the base game does well on its own, season 2 added a lot of new moves apparently and new mechanics if I remember correctly. I haven't tried it out yet which is quite sad considering how much I used to love SC. 2B from Nier was a nice touch, Gerlat is not! Hopefully the game receives further support and we'll see it morph into a bigger game like Tekken.

For what's worth, the OP is too good for its own good because you've given a perfect example of a game that was perfect from the get go