This thread saddens me. It's disheartening to see how many people care more about loyalty than truth. Every other post is someone doing olympic-level mental gymnastics to justify Trump's actions or delegitimize the Impeachment in order to...justify his actions.

Anderson Cooper said it best: "He could take a crap on your desk and you'd still support him."

It's so, so, SO VERY CLEAR that justice and law mean nothing to some of you. Reality has no bearing on some of you, just like your dear leader. All that matters is your partisan loyalty. Seriously, this man actively endorses literal camps for an ethnic group in his country, and you still support him. I don't even care about all the other lowkey terrible shit he does, I don't care about 'grab her by the pussy', or his failed business endeavours or even his perpetual, pathologically dishonest nature. I don't care about his rambling incoherency or anti LGBTQ+ policies or his pandering to evangelicals and general bullshit. Even if he didn't do ANY OF THAT (he did), he still is responsible for literal camps on US Soil meant to house and detain a certain group of foreigners, resulting in children being isolated from their parents and occasionally dying.

Nothing else needs to matter, that alone is enough to make him and his administration abhorrent. Even if you take away the personal opinions of him as a person or a businessman, or the mental defects he clearly has or the dangerous, malignant narcissism, the sexism, or the things people project onto him or even the literal laws he broke, he is still responsible for those camps and nationwide xenophobia. Provably so. Not even by a bipartisan line or bias. Disgusting.

So what you are saying is that Trump tried to do something illegal, was turned down by his administration, only released the aid when found out.  So in your mind, trying to do something illegal and only not doing it because you got found out is no big deal.  I guess this is the state we live in now where people excuse intent because they did not get caught instead of looking at the intent.

You really have to do some gymnastic leaps to make Trump look good here.  When you say there is no evidence to what Trump tried to do, you basically are throwing away sworn in testimony by people involved in the whole dumb stunt as if it doesn't carry any weight but for some reason you are willing to believe that Trump only had the best interest of the US at heart instead of his own personal gain.

What exactly in Trump past, or even the present that make you believe he is this altruistic person.  I guess you are one of the people who believes Trump never lies its all the media making false statements.  I am sure you are probably one of the people who do not believe the corruption shown by Trump during his time not as president but somehow he is this generous person who create colleges and charities to help people.

You would be the perfect mark for a con man.  A person who wants to believe so much you will doubt your own eyes and heart in hope that someone isn't what they show you who they are. 

Either way, I am sure before Trump leaves office he will give you ample opportunity to find ways to defend him when he could not find anyone in his administration to do so.  For someone who has to forbid anyone in his administration to not testify to congress he sure shows how much trust he has in what he was doing.  Withholding documents and pretty much obstructing the process is all he can do because as long as he has people willing to ignore whats right in from of them, making sure they have the least amount of info helps him keep those people ignorant.

This is how Britain + USA + Australia works.
The US has its system based on the british model..... which isnt fantastic or very fair (democracy), but better than nothing.

They should change their system to something more fair though, the fact that so many votes are just disguarded is not a healthy democracy.
In todays day and age, theres no reason to do things that way any more, we dont have the technical issues that made them choose this way of doing things.

Alot of americans dont believe in science, or accept what the scientific community says, even if like 99% of them all agree on the same matter.
Thats why america has Flat-earthers, moon landing hoax believers, ect.... . even stuff like climate changes (less dramatic than flat earthers but just as bad).

You have christians that believe the earth is 3000years old, because they counted the bloodlines down from Adam + Eve.
Dinosaurs where never real, its just put there to test your faith, when it was all created. Also dont believe in evolution ect.

And today, you have americas that ignore facts.... because they dont suit their tastes, even in politics.
Its crazy, the social medias and attention demanding common man, has made it so people value their own opinions above facts proved by science.

Its madness is what it is.

Also these same stupd facks, will go #fakenews, whenever they hear something they dont want to hear.
Ignoreing the fact, that the rich and weathly are usually the ones in controll of the news papers and tv stations, and the stuff they want to her, is usually the twisted truth and not the otherway around.

I never claimed that Trump was a good or altruistic person. I think you're making huge assumptions about what I'm saying.

Yes, Trump tried to do something illegal, probably found out it was illegal afterwards and then had to comply with the law. 

What matters is if they can find evidence of his intentions. His base will believe that he was simply trying to stop corruption. The opposition say that it was a selfish move to attempt to crush a political opponent. We need proof of his intentions or not one Republican is going to vote to impeach in the Senate.

Sworn testimony? of people carrying out his orders, that claim it was on his behalf arnt good enough?

Crooks know well enough not to record incrimating evidence on tapes or write it down.
Trump walks that fine line often enough, that hes probably paranoid, that when he does things that might break the law, he makes sure its "his word" against anothers (who just claims hes carrying out his orders).

That way if something goes wrong, trump can just throw them under the bus.

Its a patern by now, how many of trumps own people have gone to jail for him? and afterwards hes like "I barely knew the guy" "he only met him a few times" "Never met him" ect.....

"his intentions" dont matter do they?
Neither does not knowing the law, if you break the law, and claim its okay because you never knew, you still get punished.

You break the law, it doesnt matter why you did it, does it?

Its like that saying, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Which sworn testimony? I'm not trying to be difficult, I just haven't seen any testimony where they said he wanted Zelinsky to investigate Biden because he might go up against him in 2020. 

You expect Trump to break the law himself, and get caught doing so, before any action can take place?

Trump knows better, if he wants to break the law, he gets others  to do it for him, so they can take the blame,
and/or he can throw them under the bus, if it goes wrong.

Its happend too many times now, that you cant claim its not a pattern.

ei. When trump does things, he uses a middle man, esp if its something that could land him in trouble.
He used his own lawyer this time right? as the middle man, to explain his position and what he wanted.

But which sworn testimony are you referring to?

Then why are you talking to me?  You haven't even read the evidence yet.  By your own admission, you have not finished your reading.  Not only have you neglected to read Section 2, Section 1 directs you to the Endnotes over one thousand times, many such instances directing you to additional required reading, and by your own admission you haven't even consulted it yet. 

This hilariously debunks your claim that you "read the relevant parts".  To the contrary, it suggests you merely skimmed the document, (badly, I might add).  I see no evidence that you went any further than the second page of the Preface.  

Do your reading.  Then back to me.

"I didnt know it was illegal" is not a viable excuse when you are the president.