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Forums - Nintendo - The cuts for the Sw/Sh dex were worse than even the most pessimistic predictions

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Lonely_Dolphin said:
JWeinCom said:

First off, please show me any point where I said or implied that Game Freak said this was a rationale for reducing the number of Pokemon.  It will be hard to do because I didn't.  I for one don't make assumptions on the rationale of others without good reason.

Second of all, please show me where I said that anyone was incompetent.

Third, longtime players have access to a boatload of options because they have access to previous games and can transfer Pokemon.  If someone already has them from previous gens, a new player will have to spend a significant deal of time to catch up.  I thought that was self explanatory but if it wasn't, that's what I meant.

Fourth and most importantly, are you capable of having a respectful argument in good faith, or are you simply going to assume motivations and put up strawmen? If you can, I can clarify my points.  If you expect me to defend points I never made, I'm not going to bother.

Accusing me of strawmaning when that's literally what you're doing right now. I don't think you're stupid, I think you understand what I said and are just nitpicking and reading too much into it to distract from the main point, that metagame benefits is a poor defense. If you have nothing more to say on that matter then we're done here.

Please show me where I said that Game Freak had used the metagame as an argument for reducing the number of Pokemon.  If you can't do this, then that means you are arguing against an point that I never made. That is the definition of a strawman argument.

If you can show that I've used a strawman argument, please do so, and I'll happily retract it. You made an assertion, so please back it up.

Also, you are again not arguing based on any actual facts or what was said, but ascribing motivations to me. That's an ad hominem fallacy.

For the record I believe I understand exactly what you meant.  However, what you meant (or rather what I think you meant) shows that you either misunderstood my points, or are deliberately misrepresenting them.  If it's the first, I can clarify.  If the latter, then you're being dishonest.

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 06 November 2019

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Chrkeller said:
Nah I'm good. I don't like talking to a wall. I'll make a judgment once the game is out. That simply is how I personally roll. I don't do pre-judgment.

How do you decide whether or not to buy a game then?  Granted there will be more accurate information once the game is out, but at a certain point, unless you buy literally all the games, you have to make a decision on a game without having actually played it.



I'm surprised how much this has upset people, I clearly remember playing Ruby/Sapphire for the first time and realising a large number of the original Pokedex had been cut (but I don't remember people being angry about it). This was later changed by FireRed/LeafGreen and Pokemon Colosseum/XD, there's no reason this couldn't happen again.

I don't know about anyone else, but I've always felt the number of Pokemon was getting a bit out of hand anyway. The only thing that's bugging me about Sword and Shield is the inability to turn off experience share, everything else I'm quite happy with.



JWeinCom said:
Chrkeller said:
Nah I'm good. I don't like talking to a wall. I'll make a judgment once the game is out. That simply is how I personally roll. I don't do pre-judgment.

How do you decide whether or not to buy a game then?  Granted there will be more accurate information once the game is out, but at a certain point, unless you buy literally all the games, you have to make a decision on a game without having actually played it.

A few things play a role.  Genre, developer history (do I like their previous games), I'll read reviews, coop (couch) additions are selling points.  Either way, the point being I don't judge a game unless I have played it.  Like Death Standing, which I am not buying (not my genre), you won't see me running around the forum talking about how lazy it is.  I haven't played it, so I won't comment much on it much, outside it isn't my type of game based on reviews.  Ultimately a few folks (I'd rather use other words) have already judged Pokemon...  without reading a single review, without playing it.  That is moronic at best.  

Edit

More to the point, if there is a game that I don't plan on buying, I don't dedicate my day attempting to convince others they should join my "team."  I leave well enough alone and accept everybody has different tastes.

Last edited by Chrkeller - on 06 November 2019

“Consoles are great… if you like paying extra for features PCs had in 2005.”
mZuzek said:
Dulfite said:

I'm thinking they will do a remake next, but I doubt they willa manother new one for Switch. I know in the past they'd have multiple new gens per device, but they clearly make these a lot slower than the non HD ones based on the fact that we are just now getting a new one almost halfway through the switches life.

The Switch has been out for just over 2 and a half years. The 3DS had been out for just over 2 and a half years when Pokémon X/Y came out. The same happened with the DS and Pokémon Diamond/Pearl.

Spin it however you wish.

I didn't realize that about day and 3ds. I guess my prediction is unlikely to happen then.



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PAOerfulone said:

It's truly depressing to see and read how many people are so willing to settle for mediocrity from the biggest multimedia franchise in the world and the one of the biggest video game franchises in the world, 2nd only to Mario.
At this point, my biggest issue isn't even the whole Pokedex and Pokemon getting cut, but the stupid, pathetic excuses/lies that Game Freak and the Pokemon Company are spouting to justify it.
Competitive balancing? Since when has Game Freak given a shit about the competitive side of Pokemon?
Focusing on improved graphics, textures, etc.? The game looks as average as you can get and some points look down right atrocious for today's standards. Those trees might be passable for Pokemon Stadium on the Nintendo 64, but on the Switch? I don't think so.
It's bad enough that they cut out such an essential and important feature, but now they're going to treat me like an idiot by saying it's because of reasons or issues that they either never cared about before or could easily rectify, but they're either too lazy or too stupid to do so? Absolutely unacceptable!

To be gair, Game Freak and the Pokémon Company settled for mediocrity a long time ago. None of their efforts ever matched Red and Blue in sales, or the success of the early Pokémon anime and movies. Their demographics, although loyal consumers of all their mainline games, get older and older even though these games are targeted at middle-graders/tweens. Even when it seems like they're doing something right, their shy attempts prove to be mediocre or fads at best like Pokémon Go, Detective Pikachu, the PokéPark etc.

Or... perhaps we do live in the best of all worlds and that's just what would inevitably have happened to the franchise after it peaked. Although it's hard not to imagine what could have been otherwise when almost everything these two companies have done conspire against it.



 

 

 

 

 

Rick1331 said:

I'm surprised how much this has upset people, I clearly remember playing Ruby/Sapphire for the first time and realising a large number of the original Pokedex had been cut (but I don't remember people being angry about it). This was later changed by FireRed/LeafGreen and Pokemon Colosseum/XD, there's no reason this couldn't happen again.

Pokemon weren't cut out of Ruby/Sapphire. There just wasn't any way to get them because you couldn't trade from GB/GBC to GBA. They became available in Ruby/Sapphire when Fire Red and Leaf Green came out. Now-a-days with the internet you can pay a subscription to store all your pokemon, but they won't let you use them in Sword/Shield. They have a subscription service to store your pokemon and then they won't even let you use them in the new game, it's a bit much.

The actual number isn't a massive deal to me, the actual pokemon missing are. You'd think the starters would have at least been saved from the cut.

No bulbasaur? Squirtle? Cyndaquil? Totodile? Mudkip? Piplup? And some of my favorite pokemon: Shinx, Lickitung, Psyduck, Apalm, Poliwag... there are some substantial gaps here.

We've got this loser:                    But not this legend:



Barkley said:
Rick1331 said:

I'm surprised how much this has upset people, I clearly remember playing Ruby/Sapphire for the first time and realising a large number of the original Pokedex had been cut (but I don't remember people being angry about it). This was later changed by FireRed/LeafGreen and Pokemon Colosseum/XD, there's no reason this couldn't happen again.

Pokemon weren't cut out of Ruby/Sapphire. There just wasn't any way to get them because you couldn't trade from GB/GBC to GBA. They became available in Ruby/Sapphire when Fire Red and Leaf Green came out. Now-a-days with the internet you can pay a subscription to store all your pokemon, but they won't let you use them in Sword/Shield. They have a subscription service to store your pokemon and then they won't even let you use them in the new game, it's a bit much.

The actual number isn't a massive deal to me, the actual pokemon missing are. You'd think the starters would have at least been saved from the cut.

No bulbasaur? Squirtle? Cyndaquil? Totodile? Mudkip? Piplup? And some of my favorite pokemon: Shinx, Lickitung, Psyduck, Apalm, Poliwag... there are some substantial gaps here.

We've got this loser:                    But not this legend:

Note, I say this as a relative non-fan of Pokemon looking in from the outside, so please don't take offence because there's absolutely none intended.... That last bit with the two pictures... calling the purple chandelier thing a loser while calling the blue bathtub toy a legend made me erupt in laughter! =)



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Jumpin said:
Barkley said: 

We've got this loser:                    But not this legend:

Note, I say this as a relative non-fan of Pokemon looking in from the outside, so please don't take offence because there's absolutely none intended.... That last bit with the two pictures... calling the purple chandelier thing a loser while calling the blue bathtub toy a legend made me erupt in laughter! =)

Calling Squirtle a blue bathtub toy made me erupt in tears. That's a bannable offense!



I was watching a video the other day, the wilderness/exploration aspect seems really cool. Changes based on weather could be a great element. I am hoping the game has a lot to discover/explore. I would rather see less Pokemon in favor of open world type elements.



“Consoles are great… if you like paying extra for features PCs had in 2005.”