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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - The cuts for the Sw/Sh dex were worse than even the most pessimistic predictions

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Took some time to think about it and tbh I'm not really that mad about the cuts. I mean it's shit that my fav mons aren't in but hopefully it'll be more balanced. I do think Game Freak didn't use their resources efficiently. If they're just gonna have about 400 mons they should've used the resources to make the world more lively and the Pokemon as well. Also they could've handled the cuts better, they could've thought to hold events where "a rare Pokemon not usually seen in Galar has been spotted!" and then they could release a few mons not in the base game that way.



 

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tsogud said:
Took some time to think about it and tbh I'm not really that mad about the cuts. I mean it's shit that my fav mons aren't in but hopefully it'll be more balanced. I do think Game Freak didn't use their resources efficiently. If they're just gonna have about 400 mons they should've used the resources to make the world more lively and the Pokemon as well. Also they could've handled the cuts better, they could've thought to hold events where "a rare Pokemon not usually seen in Galar has been spotted!" and then they could release a few mons not in the base game that way.

They still could, and even though they've said there's no plan to as of now, I believe they will.  That's been an effective strategy for Nintendo with games like Splatoon and Arms (adding more content via a slow drip), and adding Pokemon from new regions from time to time has also been a winning strategy for Pokemon Go.  Seems to make too much sense not to, but of course, that's just an assumption.



According to dataminers that chart of cut Pokemon may not be accurate as the are Pokemon in Sw/Sh that seem to be returning that the chart says aren't.



It's pretty frustrating that Poke'mon Go makes more money than the mainline series. It's just throwing Poke'balls. There's no weakening the enemy Poke'mon, no real battling. It's such a painfully simple game. And yet because it's a free app with microtransactions it makes an ungodly amount of money.

I'm pretty much convinced at this point that Gamefreak is just a bad developer, and Poke'mon only remains as good as it is because they are painting by numbers. Look at Giga Wrecker, and Little Town Hero. Both games were pretty much hated by critics.



Wyrdness said:

According to dataminers that chart of cut Pokemon may not be accurate as the are Pokemon in Sw/Sh that seem to be returning that the chart says aren't.

Blastoise, Venusaur, Alola starters and a bunch of mythicals/legendaries. Nothing good/interesting there, just fodder for events throughout the next year. 35 limited event Pokemon isn't a good thing.

Dataminers have also found that we've lost more than 100 moves in Sword and Shield:

002 Karate Chop
003 Double Slap
004 Comet Punch
013 Razor Wind
026 Jump Kick
027 Rolling Kick
041 Twineedle
049 Sonic Boom
082 Dragon Rage
096 Meditate
099 Rage
112 Barrier
117 Bide
119 Mirror Move
121 Egg Bomb
125 Bone Club
128 Clamp
131 Spike Cannon
132 Constrict
134 Kinesis
140 Barrage
145 Bubble
146 Dizzy Punch
148 Flash
149 Psywave
159 Sharpen
169 Spider Web
171 Nightmare
185 Feint Attack
193 Foresight
216 Return
218 Frustration
222 Magnitude
228 Pursuit
237 Hidden Power
265 Smelling Salts
274 Assist
287 Refresh
289 Snatch
290 Secret Power
293 Camouflage
300 Mud Sport
301 Ice Ball
302 Needle Arm
316 Odor Sleuth
318 Silver Wind
320 Grass Whistle
324 Signal Beam
327 Sky Uppercut
346 Water Sport
357 Miracle Eye
358 Wake-Up Slap
363 Natural Gift
373 Embargo
376 Trump Card
377 Heal Block
378 Wring Out
381 Lucky Chant
382 Me First
386 Punishment
426 Mud Bomb
429 Mirror Shot
431 Rock Climb
443 Magnet Bomb
445 Captivate
456 Heal Order
466 Ominous Wind
477 Telekinesis
481 Flame Burst
485 Synchronoise
498 Chip Away
507 Sky Drop
516 Bestow
531 Heart Stamp
537 Steamroller
563 Rototiller
569 Ion Deluge
622 Breakneck Blitz
623 Breakneck Blitz
624 All-Out Pummeling
625 All-Out Pummeling
626 Supersonic Skystrike
627 Supersonic Skystrike
628 Acid Downpour
629 Acid Downpour
630 Tectonic Rage
631 Tectonic Rage
632 Continental Crush
633 Continental Crush
634 Savage Spin-Out
635 Savage Spin-Out
636 Never-Ending Nightmare
637 Never-Ending Nightmare
638 Corkscrew Crash
639 Corkscrew Crash
640 Inferno Overdrive
641 Inferno Overdrive
642 Hydro Vortex
643 Hydro Vortex
644 Bloom Doom
645 Bloom Doom
646 Gigavolt Havoc
647 Gigavolt Havoc
648 Shattered Psyche
649 Shattered Psyche
650 Subzero Slammer
651 Subzero Slammer
652 Devastating Drake
653 Devastating Drake
654 Black Hole Eclipse
655 Black Hole Eclipse
656 Twinkle Tackle
657 Twinkle Tackle
658 Catastropika
671 Spotlight
695 Sinister Arrow Raid
696 Malicious Moonsault
697 Oceanic Operetta
698 Guardian of Alola
699 Soul-Stealing 7-Star Strike
700 Stoked Sparksurfer
701 Pulverizing Pancake
702 Extreme Evoboost
703 Genesis Supernova
719 10,000,000 Volt Thunderbolt
723 Light That Burns the Sky
724 Searing Sunraze Smash
725 Menacing Moonraze Maelstrom
726 Let’s Snuggle Forever
727 Splintered Stormshards
728 Clangorous Soulblaze
729 Zippy Zap
730 Splishy Splash
731 Floaty Fall
732 Pika Papow
733 Bouncy Bubble
734 Buzzy Buzz
735 Sizzly Slide
736 Glitzy Glow
737 Baddy Bad
738 Sappy Seed
739 Freezy Frost
740 Sparkly Swirl
741 Veevee Volley

Signal Beam, Return, Hidden Power, Silver Wind and Magnet Bomb in particular stand out. Removing coverage moves from so many Pokemon. They continue to shoot themselves in the foot.



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To be fair 35 of those are probably all the Z-moves they introduced last gen and since its a feature they are removing altogether then it makes sense they get cut.
Still a couple of moves on that list are classic moves that have been around since Gen1. Not particularly strong or unbalancing ones, so its a bit weird they removed them.



I'm actually kind of Ok now with slashing the dex in half honestly, much to my own surprise. I do think the dex was getting too out of control and Pokemon were starting to feel just like a number rather than unique and special. I especially love the idea of going back to only 4-5 legendaries in the game just like gen 1. Legendaries especially were starting to feel diluted and like nothing special anymore. What i can't support here is the ones GF chose to keep. While some are obviously good choices, on the whole it's a pretty horrible selection, particularly gen 5. Why they would choose to keep so many from gen 5, which was by far the most creatively bankrupt gen for designs, is way beyond me. Especially since it's most of the worst offenders from gen 5. I mean, they even gave something as pointless as Stunfisk a galar form and didn't even bother with an evo that might've at least somewhat justified its existence. On the whole it's just a really bad selection. Almost to the point where I think they purposefully choose lots of less liked ones maybe in order to try to force people to use the new ones as much as possible.



RingoGaSuki said:
Wyrdness said:

According to dataminers that chart of cut Pokemon may not be accurate as the are Pokemon in Sw/Sh that seem to be returning that the chart says aren't.

Blastoise, Venusaur, Alola starters and a bunch of mythicals/legendaries. Nothing good/interesting there, just fodder for events throughout the next year. 35 limited event Pokemon isn't a good thing.

Dataminers have also found that we've lost more than 100 moves in Sword and Shield:

002 Karate Chop
003 Double Slap
004 Comet Punch
013 Razor Wind
026 Jump Kick
027 Rolling Kick
041 Twineedle
049 Sonic Boom
082 Dragon Rage
096 Meditate
099 Rage
112 Barrier
117 Bide
119 Mirror Move
121 Egg Bomb
125 Bone Club
128 Clamp
131 Spike Cannon
132 Constrict
134 Kinesis
140 Barrage
145 Bubble
146 Dizzy Punch
148 Flash
149 Psywave
159 Sharpen
169 Spider Web
171 Nightmare
185 Feint Attack
193 Foresight
216 Return
218 Frustration
222 Magnitude
228 Pursuit
237 Hidden Power
265 Smelling Salts
274 Assist
287 Refresh
289 Snatch
290 Secret Power
293 Camouflage
300 Mud Sport
301 Ice Ball
302 Needle Arm
316 Odor Sleuth
318 Silver Wind
320 Grass Whistle
324 Signal Beam
327 Sky Uppercut
346 Water Sport
357 Miracle Eye
358 Wake-Up Slap
363 Natural Gift
373 Embargo
376 Trump Card
377 Heal Block
378 Wring Out
381 Lucky Chant
382 Me First
386 Punishment
426 Mud Bomb
429 Mirror Shot
431 Rock Climb
443 Magnet Bomb
445 Captivate
456 Heal Order
466 Ominous Wind
477 Telekinesis
481 Flame Burst
485 Synchronoise
498 Chip Away
507 Sky Drop
516 Bestow
531 Heart Stamp
537 Steamroller
563 Rototiller
569 Ion Deluge
622 Breakneck Blitz
623 Breakneck Blitz
624 All-Out Pummeling
625 All-Out Pummeling
626 Supersonic Skystrike
627 Supersonic Skystrike
628 Acid Downpour
629 Acid Downpour
630 Tectonic Rage
631 Tectonic Rage
632 Continental Crush
633 Continental Crush
634 Savage Spin-Out
635 Savage Spin-Out
636 Never-Ending Nightmare
637 Never-Ending Nightmare
638 Corkscrew Crash
639 Corkscrew Crash
640 Inferno Overdrive
641 Inferno Overdrive
642 Hydro Vortex
643 Hydro Vortex
644 Bloom Doom
645 Bloom Doom
646 Gigavolt Havoc
647 Gigavolt Havoc
648 Shattered Psyche
649 Shattered Psyche
650 Subzero Slammer
651 Subzero Slammer
652 Devastating Drake
653 Devastating Drake
654 Black Hole Eclipse
655 Black Hole Eclipse
656 Twinkle Tackle
657 Twinkle Tackle
658 Catastropika
671 Spotlight
695 Sinister Arrow Raid
696 Malicious Moonsault
697 Oceanic Operetta
698 Guardian of Alola
699 Soul-Stealing 7-Star Strike
700 Stoked Sparksurfer
701 Pulverizing Pancake
702 Extreme Evoboost
703 Genesis Supernova
719 10,000,000 Volt Thunderbolt
723 Light That Burns the Sky
724 Searing Sunraze Smash
725 Menacing Moonraze Maelstrom
726 Let’s Snuggle Forever
727 Splintered Stormshards
728 Clangorous Soulblaze
729 Zippy Zap
730 Splishy Splash
731 Floaty Fall
732 Pika Papow
733 Bouncy Bubble
734 Buzzy Buzz
735 Sizzly Slide
736 Glitzy Glow
737 Baddy Bad
738 Sappy Seed
739 Freezy Frost
740 Sparkly Swirl
741 Veevee Volley

Signal Beam, Return, Hidden Power, Silver Wind and Magnet Bomb in particular stand out. Removing coverage moves from so many Pokemon. They continue to shoot themselves in the foot.

So much for worrying about the metagame, they took out Hidden Power, that has been a crucial move for generations.



You know it deserves the GOTY.

Come join The 2018 Obscure Game Monthly Review Thread.

Darwinianevolution said:

So much for worrying about the metagame, they took out Hidden Power, that has been a crucial move for generations.

There is no counter for Ferrothorn now unless you run a fire-type dedicated to taking it out. Makes so many Pokemon completely unviable as they have no way to fight it.



mZuzek said:
RingoGaSuki said:

Dataminers have also found that we've lost more than 100 moves in Sword and Shield:

(...)

Signal Beam, Return, Hidden Power, Silver Wind and Magnet Bomb in particular stand out. Removing coverage moves from so many Pokemon. They continue to shoot themselves in the foot.

Ehh... This is where I draw the line between people complaining over meaningful content being removed, and just Pokémon fans treating any removal as necessarily a bad thing. Let's be real, moves in Pokémon need streamlining. They're a mess. There's so much imbalance between the moves different types get, there's so many pointless useless moves, and there's so many redundant moves (Protect/Detect), you can't say it's a bad thing for them to start getting cut.

What I can't get behind is the selection, specifically. Pursuit is a classic. Signal Beam was a cool move that should've always been more relevant among Bug-types. Feint Attack is just... why, why would you ever cut that? Psywave, Dragon Rage, Mud Bomb... yeah, I don't know why they'd get rid of those, and many more.

I do get behind some choices, though. Return is kinda stupid for how strong it is with no downsides, though to be fair it could've just been nerfed instead of removed. Hidden Power should've never been a thing in the first place, good riddance. Mud Sport and Water Sport, lol.

Still, to go out of your way to cut moves out of Pokémon, and keep Stealth Rock in... ugh.

See, that's exactly the point. Streamlining is fine given the bloated movepool we had, but the selection is atrocious. They've removed so many options from a bunch of Pokemon. The Sport moves are fine to be cut, as are other completely unused ones like Camouflage and Synchronoise. But cutting the ones I mentioned above, as well as the many other actually useful ones on that list (Dizzy Punch, Jump Kick, Twineedle, Flame Burst, Steamroller, Mud Bomb, Ice Ball etc) is just stupid. Same as cutting Heart Stamp and Heal Order whilst leaving Swoobat and Vespiquen in the game. They nerfed what were already weak Pokemon even further (Heart Stamp was all Swoobat had over Zubat) whilst leaving the unbalanced crap like SR in. 

Last edited by RingoGaSuki - on 11 November 2019