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Forums - Gaming Discussion - (Rumor):PS5 new Devkit named " Prospero ", Microsoft developing high tech camera for Xbox Next

eva01beserk said:
I hate gimmicks. But know as power will be meaningless as people already cant tell the diference, I have a feeling gimicks are gona make a comeback. Motion and raytraycing to name a few come to mind.

Graphics is not the only thing that matters, physics simulations also will improve.



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That's great everybody loves physics. Does not take a huge power upgrade for better physics thou.



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

eva01beserk said:
That's great everybody loves physics. Does not take a huge power upgrade for better physics thou.

If so, nobody would need supercomputers that fill several rooms and cost millions to build.



I'm sure Sony is looking into that for the mere movement of a character. Fyi. Thouse super computers used are for massive simulations. After they are done looking for what ever they where looking for the results can be used by any cellphone. So still don't need a personal super computer.

But naughty dog is tuting great improvements all around from uncharted 4 to last of us 2. Still the same hardware. So huge power was not needed.



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

I’ll trust that it will all be good and fun games will be made.

However if there’s a camera on this thing that would be the first thing I’ll block off. Ducttape is a great anti-spying tool. Or I’ll turn the console around and have it face the wall. Also, if that sketch would be the outer design on the thing it would easily be the uggliest console ever, by a long shot. It’s even too ugly for a devkit.



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I thought there was someone in the movie Gladiator named Prospero but it might have just been Proximo.

Either way it has Roman ties like the V for PS5. (V shape on the dev kit)

"Shadows and dust"?



HollyGamer said:

3. Another confirmation that both PS5 and Xbox next will have ray tracing and both will be using hardware based ray tracing

4. Both company will utilize ray tracing with different methods and different approach (technique), and in Resetera the writer of the article also mentioned that the leaker said PS5 will have fully hardware while Xbox next will emulates ray tracing  using combination of hardware and API like directX ray tracing API , this the quotes :

" Unfortunately, it's too vague. For example, I read the tipster's comment as suggesting the Sony device would do lots of real-time ray tracing from occlusion to shadows to full bounce reflections and the Microsoft device would rely on tricks to emulate ray tracing. But another colleague read the exact same comment and interpreted it as how ray tracing might appear in titles re-released for the new system. Game devs I passed it along too all had opinions that ranged the gamut from mine to my colleagues'. So until we get a little more detail I'm afraid it's all hearsay."

We already know that hardware ray tracing is in for the next Xbox as Microsoft has outright stated it and so has it's developers.
https://www.windowscentral.com/xbox-scarlett-features-dedicated-ray-tracing-cores-says-gears-5-developer
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2019-project-scarlett-spec-analysis


HollyGamer said:

7. If PS5 devkit names is legitimate , Prospero names could indicate PS5 will be using Ray Tracing IP and technologies/method from "Image tech " using Powervr Wizard , PowerVr Wizard GPU will be included inside PS5 costume Navi chip or probably Sony and AMD will try to incorporate their design into Navi RDNA  for Playstation as "Secret Sauce . Prospero in the novel is a wizard and PS5 Devkit named prospero A.K.A Wizard = means there is possibility this the key to ray tracing for PS5 because at the time being,  AMD has no concrete solution for ray tracing.  This is the Secret Sauce that Cerny  and Lisa Sue told us a few month ago for PS5. Also in 2016 Sony Interactive Entertainment hired Carl Vloet who was the lead in charge of the software ray tracing stack at Caustic Graphics and later Powervr when Caustic was bought by Imagination.

8. The insider also said both consoles will have the largest compute jump of any generation (Edit by OP:probably if they included ray tracing factor) 

You can also read the same article by Redgaming tech http://www.redgamingtech.com/playstation-5-gpu-specs-leak-2ghz-backwards-compatibility-mode/

OK lets the discussion begin 

AMD to use PowerVR technology? Doubtful.

Redgaming Tech has a clear confirmation bias, best everyone stays away from that joint.

HollyGamer said:

2. Gonzalo supposed to be using RDNA means teraflop equation will be different then GCN , so the jump on compute cannot be compared directly to current gen compute power 

It's different even when comparing GCN to GCN. It's not real-world performance, it's theoretical and often unachievable.

twintail said:
So hardware ray tracing is better ?

Yes as the rasterization still needs resources to rasterize a scene... It's better to have Ray Tracing on it's own cores so as not to take away from those potential  tasks.

HollyGamer said:

But don't worry the tech is not an exotic technology like the cell on PS3, The PowerVr tech is still a PC GPU based on X86.

The GPU is not x86, it uses it's own ISA. Same with the current consoles.
The only GPU that I can recall that was going to use the x86 ISA was Larrabee and that got canned.

CuCabeludo said:

Graphics is not the only thing that matters, physics simulations also will improve.

Not just Physics, but simulation quality in general.
But if the consoles launch with a 1.6Ghz 8x Ryzen cores with 6x for games, then that doesn't bode well for the potential CPU capabilities, still a generational increase over the extremely terrible Jaguar cores...

The turbo-boost to 3.6ghz could potentially mean that developers get to choose a TDP and what parts of the chip to allocate said TDP to, I.E. More to the GPU or more to the CPU. (Hopefully it's not dynamically allocated like in notebooks that adjusts depending on load.)



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Who cares, just wait for the reveal. It really won't be to long now.



  Pemalite said:
HollyGamer said:

3. Another confirmation that both PS5 and Xbox next will have ray tracing and both will be using hardware based ray tracing

4. Both company will utilize ray tracing with different methods and different approach (technique), and in Resetera the writer of the article also mentioned that the leaker said PS5 will have fully hardware while Xbox next will emulates ray tracing  using combination of hardware and API like directX ray tracing API , this the quotes :

" Unfortunately, it's too vague. For example, I read the tipster's comment as suggesting the Sony device would do lots of real-time ray tracing from occlusion to shadows to full bounce reflections and the Microsoft device would rely on tricks to emulate ray tracing. But another colleague read the exact same comment and interpreted it as how ray tracing might appear in titles re-released for the new system. Game devs I passed it along too all had opinions that ranged the gamut from mine to my colleagues'. So until we get a little more detail I'm afraid it's all hearsay."

We already know that hardware ray tracing is in for the next Xbox as Microsoft has outright stated it and so has it's developers.
https://www.windowscentral.com/xbox-scarlett-features-dedicated-ray-tracing-cores-says-gears-5-developer
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2019-project-scarlett-spec-analysis


HollyGamer said:

7. If PS5 devkit names is legitimate , Prospero names could indicate PS5 will be using Ray Tracing IP and technologies/method from "Image tech " using Powervr Wizard , PowerVr Wizard GPU will be included inside PS5 costume Navi chip or probably Sony and AMD will try to incorporate their design into Navi RDNA  for Playstation as "Secret Sauce . Prospero in the novel is a wizard and PS5 Devkit named prospero A.K.A Wizard = means there is possibility this the key to ray tracing for PS5 because at the time being,  AMD has no concrete solution for ray tracing.  This is the Secret Sauce that Cerny  and Lisa Sue told us a few month ago for PS5. Also in 2016 Sony Interactive Entertainment hired Carl Vloet who was the lead in charge of the software ray tracing stack at Caustic Graphics and later Powervr when Caustic was bought by Imagination.

8. The insider also said both consoles will have the largest compute jump of any generation (Edit by OP:probably if they included ray tracing factor) 

You can also read the same article by Redgaming tech http://www.redgamingtech.com/playstation-5-gpu-specs-leak-2ghz-backwards-compatibility-mode/

OK lets the discussion begin 

AMD to use PowerVR technology? Doubtful.

Redgaming Tech has a clear confirmation bias, best everyone stays away from that joint.

It's different even when comparing GCN to GCN. It's not real-world performance, it's theoretical and often unachievable.

The GPU is not x86, it uses it's own ISA. Same with the current consoles.
The only GPU that I can recall that was going to use the x86 ISA was Larrabee and that got canned.

No one said Microsoft will not include hardware accelerated or dedicated nodes for raytracing, it's just their method will just be different with Sony. Microsoft will utilizing their DirectX Ray Tracing , and Sony will just full metal optimization ( Sony also use this method to emulate compatibility and enhancing PS4 games to PS4 Pro). This is very logical because Microsoft are making games for PC as well and they are good at Software and has worked with Nvidia for Ray Tracing. But how the API and the solution will be different from PS5 to Scarlet..   

AMD  might not implemented on their normal PC GPU, but could happen on their costume design based on SONY request and SONY own design , and that is up to Sony to decide. Even Microsoft and AMD has co engineered an CPU APU that using tensor core for AI (like inside Nvidia Turing) for their latest  Surface Notebook. This is the prove that AMD can be asked to design whatever Sony or Microsoft asked as long the tech is there and the money is there. 

Also SONY Checkerboard rendering tech on PS4 pro  also not just software solution they build and customize PS4 Pro GPU to have a dedicated chip and instruction build into the design, So PS4 GPU design is not just pure Polaris . So "Prospero" are connected to "Oberon "  , "Ariel" and "Gonzalo" which is Midnight Summer Dream Shakespeare , and at that Novel Prospero's is a "Wizard" , AMD has no real solution at the moment for Ray Tracing, and Sony has a deep connection with The designer for Imagetech soft and PowerVR, "Wizard" is just an easy guest, also it using Opengl, Vulcan and Linux which is perfect for PS platform which usually run on hardware level optimization. 

Yes ,  But it's not an exotic tech like The Cell, that's my point. 

Yes agree even on GCN to GCN is different ,

Last edited by HollyGamer - on 02 October 2019

HollyGamer said:

No one said Microsoft will not include hardware accelerated or dedicated nodes for raytracing, it's just their method will just be different with Sony. 

It will likely be based on the same technology, no point inventing multiple wheels.

HollyGamer said:

Microsoft will utilizing their DirectX Ray Tracing , and Sony will just full metal optimization ( Sony also use this method to emulate compatibility and enhancing PS4 games to PS4 Pro).

There is absolutely zero evidence to support such an assertion.

HollyGamer said:

This is very logical because Microsoft are making games for PC as well and they are good at Software and has worked with Nvidia for Ray Tracing. But how the API and the solution will be different from PS5 to Scarlet..   

Worked with nVidia? No more or less than with AMD.
Microsoft works with all Graphics chip design companies in order to build and ratify standards, nVidia and AMD then go off and build their chipsets in order to adhere to said standards.

For example, AMD had Tessellation on it's GPU's back even when the Playstation 2 was on the market (Something that wouldn't become defacto standard until the Playstation 4 in consoles.) however it wasn't Direct X compatible as it relied on n-patches.
Microsoft then worked with AMD and nVidia in order to build out the Tessellation specification for Direct X 11, AMD then rebuilt it's geometry units in order to meet those specifications and be Direct X compatible.

Then Sony and Microsoft contracted AMD to build GPU's for the Playstation 4 and Xbox One, both companies then opted to use AMD's already established Tessellators rather than reinvent the wheel or go with AMD's prior approach to Tessellation... That is despite the fact that the Playstation 4 doesn't use Direct X even in the slightest, it still has a fully Direct X 11 compliant Tessellator.

So the API differences are thus ultimately irrelevant.

HollyGamer said:

AMD  might not implemented on their normal PC GPU, but could happen on their costume design based on SONY request and SONY own design , and that is up to Sony to decide.

RDNA 2.0 is set to have hardware Ray Tracing, it is likely to be the same approach to Ray Tracing that will be in next-gen consoles as RDNA is modular just like GCN. (Which makes sense as RDNA is built on top of GCN's design principles.)

Sony is using a semi-custom design, they aren't going to deviate significantly from AMD's already established, tried-and-tested design rules, the Playstation 4 didn't, the Playstation 4 Pro didn't either and neither did the Playstation 4 Slim.

HollyGamer said:

Even Microsoft and AMD has co engineered an CPU APU that using tensor core for AI (like inside Nvidia Turing) for their latest  Surface Notebook. This is the prove that AMD can be asked to design whatever Sony or Microsoft asked as long the tech is there and the money is there. 

Tensor cores are a patented nVidia technology and thus AMD is not allowed to use it unless nVidia gives the approval.

HollyGamer said:

Also SONY Checkerboard rendering tech on PS4 pro  also not just software solution they build and customize PS4 Pro GPU to have a dedicated chip and instruction build into the design, So PS4 GPU design is not just pure Polaris .

Checkerboard rendering is an AMD technology, not a Sony one.

HollyGamer said:

AMD has no real solution at the moment for Ray Tracing, and Sony has a deep connection with The designer for Imagetech soft and PowerVR, "Wizard" is just an easy guest, also it using Opengl, Vulcan and Linux which is perfect for PS platform which usually run on hardware level optimization. 

We have no evidence to support or discredit such a hypothesis.
OpenGL/Vulkan/Linux is no more or less optimized than Microsofts Direct X 11/12/Windows Kernel approach.
Not to mention... The Playstation 4 and Xbox One actually both have more API's than that, you didn't list the low-level API's.

HollyGamer said:

Yes ,  But it's not an exotic tech like The Cell, that's my point. 

If it's not a ratified standard that is exposed via OpenGL/Direct X and is thus hardware that is mainstream and supported by all vendors, then it's exotic.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--