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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - does anyone still think that the 360 can win this console war?

psrock on 16 April 2008
endimion said:
psrock said:
mrstickball said:
Maybe it's just me but..........

From the get go, how was the 360 supposed to actually win, in the first place?

Yes, it started first to gain traction - but where, exactly? Japan, for the Xbox, already proved an incredibly disasterous ground for it to tread upon. No analyist that gets paid for his job could honestly say that Microsoft had a snowball's chance in you-know-where to win in Japan. Could it of fared better, from an analyising point of view? Sure, but under the best of ideas (from reasonable predictions), Microsoft could of done 3-5m hardware units this generation, if they pulled out all the stops.

The US would of, again, best case scenario, been dominant by a small margin - after all, the PS2 was the best last-gen, and the Gamecube was pretty close to the green box last gen. Even though the US has proven a great area for Microsoft, again, no analyist could of seen it destroying the great Playstation 3, but could of greatly matched the PS3, and dominated a weak Wii system. But nevertheless, best-case, the 360 could of sold 30-35m units in the US and Canada if pigs flew right into Bill Gate's Xbox sales.

Europe could of been Microsoft's greatest gain, however, I do believe. The Xbox did very well in PAL-Land for what it was. It secured a dominant 2nd place, although the true news was about the PS2. But again, good case scenario, it could of done 20-25m units. But as I've always felt, Europe is Sony land. And guess what? It is. The PS3 is selling pretty great, as it should have.


So in the end, the question is: which self-respective Xbox fanboy, if you can quote any here, ever said the 360 was going to win? I might have selective memory, but I can't, for the life of me, remember major Xbox 360 contributors to this forum that ever said the 360 would lead in worldwide sales versus the PS3 and Wii. I am sure some made that prediction, but all were like the PS3 fanboys that thought the $600 wouldn't deterr users, or the Wii dooms-dayers that felt the Wii would be a mere novelty and fall out of the charts within a few days of sales: they were outside the norm, and were just stupid fanboys with no real scope of things.




Having said all that, I think the 360 was, and is moderately succuessful. For the first time in Microsoft's lifespan, it's had 2 profitable quarters, and looks to have another profitable quarter. This is great news for the cashcow Xbox we all knew and loved to hate.

And the 360, despite it's numerous flaws (lack of compelling J-Library, hardware problems, XBL costs, and lack of MS price drops), has done very well, securing a strong 2nd place in the world. Sony, while gaining, is still looking from the outside in - a feat never once thought of before this generation started (although much of this can be attributed to the Wii, Microsoft has still proven an effective adversary in the US, and I sincerely doubt the PS3 will win the LTD battle in the US ever, or at a minimum of years).


And I will go further: the Xbox 360 has done great things, but certainly nowhere near perfect: It took on the PS3 beast in terms of software, and has won. Being an Xbox owner, I was treated to crappy JRPGs, if they existed at all, way too many shooters, and little else. The 360, for a RPG gamer and Sim/Strategy gamer, am in hog heaven. Microsoft has also built the strongest Online empire of this generation, and is still doing a fine job of keeping a lead, and strong competition despite compelling strides by Nintendo and Sony.

Will the 360 manage #1 worldwide? Heck no. How 'bout #2? Probably not. But it'll still garner the strongest #3 history has ever seen, and will be stronger than any console #2 ever had been (Genesis/N64) by a long shot. Software is still the boon of the 360, and the bane of the PS3. The 360 has also butchered any sort of Microsoft record established, and long passed it. The 360 even has alot of hope for strong continuing sales: 2008 looks to be great for titles, and there is still the issue of the ultra-inhibitive price.

We've also seen what a X360 price drop has done in Europe for 4 or 5 weeks: great. Despite still being 3rd place, it's still garnering, year over year, a giant leap ahead of last year. I can only question what will happen if/when Microsoft initiates the same pricing strategies in the US. There's alot of hope if you see things the way they are (a comfortable, profitable #3 finish, and a strong hope for next gen). Only a PS3/Wii fanboy would otherwise argue.


i agree with you, however they will be no excuse for MS if they let PS3 pass them, they have the best library of games, they have a better online experiance and they are cheaper. The ps3 has few things they've done right, expect having the playstation brand.


 exactly it's why it's not totally into MS hands to get people who just buy a brand which is widely the case for PS 3.... the never ending I hate MS so hate XB plays a lot also in that direction... when i could easily name as many reason to hate Sony but people don't really get into hardware quality as much as bitching against windows because their geek friends said linux is better and open source soft is the holly grail and MS should die for their way of doing things.... you put any other company than MS behind XB and i'm pretty sure PS 3 would have had more struggle than they did.... and the RRoD is also a big factor...

 

so like mrstickball said they built a stronger customer base this gen... and that could be a big problem for PS and even sony in the video game market for next gen... especially if they are still dreaming about a 10 years lifespan this gen... if MS does it right in terms of hardware... find a great new fashion like Wii and implement it right... and keep improving their service offer and capability... for a cheap price.... Sony has some really hard work to do...

First of all, MS will not get a second chance at knocking Sony again, this was it. No company could mess up as big as Sony messed up their lauch, high prices and no games. Come on, last year,  i think Time magazine called the PS3 a complete failure, it was the laughing stock everywhere. And to finish behind it will be an embarrassment for MS.

 



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endimion on 16 April 2008
Auron said:
Legend11 said:
Personally I find it pretty funny that the PS3 was supposed to be the big bad console that was going to come out and crush everything. And here we have the Wii completely owning it almost everywhere except one or two very small countries in which the Sony fanboys there remind us of. It's really laughable to go into the Sales forum for example and see the Spain sales and know it's just some Sony fanboys wanking over the fact that the PS3 is actually outselling the Wii somewhere.

It's also laughable that the PS2 had about 5 times the sales of the Xbox but they think it's a huge victory that the PS3 might catch up to the Xbox 360 in a year or so. Oh how the mighty have fallen, lol.

Better to be great and have fallen then to never be great at all. The XB failed and the 360 is well on its way to fail as well. Halo didn't help the over priced no games bluray player is still outselling it. The gimmick motion controlled GC 1.5 has passed it overall. But Xbots like you still posts your little lists of games that Americans and noobody else buy, shooters. It must be sad to always be looking up from the bottom of the barrel ey XBOT??


 XB failed I thought it was GC who did ??? and 360 will fail...???? it's already a given that it won't.... oh but maybe you think business is just good when you are first.... lol that's laughable though.... as long as it makes a profit does better than last generation and increase brand equity it's not a failure.... and I'm sorry but I see more often PS 3 fans naming old IPs that have been almost edition after edition going down in sales.... 

and until proven otherwise XB is still second for a long long time.... and you want an odd statement..... I bet by the end of this gen the game library of XB still will be better than PS 3 with better exclusive and even more odd statement.. they'll have a better third party support ending this gen entering the next one.... 



endimion on 16 April 2008
psrock said:
endimion said:
psrock said:
mrstickball said:
Maybe it's just me but..........

From the get go, how was the 360 supposed to actually win, in the first place?

Yes, it started first to gain traction - but where, exactly? Japan, for the Xbox, already proved an incredibly disasterous ground for it to tread upon. No analyist that gets paid for his job could honestly say that Microsoft had a snowball's chance in you-know-where to win in Japan. Could it of fared better, from an analyising point of view? Sure, but under the best of ideas (from reasonable predictions), Microsoft could of done 3-5m hardware units this generation, if they pulled out all the stops.

The US would of, again, best case scenario, been dominant by a small margin - after all, the PS2 was the best last-gen, and the Gamecube was pretty close to the green box last gen. Even though the US has proven a great area for Microsoft, again, no analyist could of seen it destroying the great Playstation 3, but could of greatly matched the PS3, and dominated a weak Wii system. But nevertheless, best-case, the 360 could of sold 30-35m units in the US and Canada if pigs flew right into Bill Gate's Xbox sales.

Europe could of been Microsoft's greatest gain, however, I do believe. The Xbox did very well in PAL-Land for what it was. It secured a dominant 2nd place, although the true news was about the PS2. But again, good case scenario, it could of done 20-25m units. But as I've always felt, Europe is Sony land. And guess what? It is. The PS3 is selling pretty great, as it should have.


So in the end, the question is: which self-respective Xbox fanboy, if you can quote any here, ever said the 360 was going to win? I might have selective memory, but I can't, for the life of me, remember major Xbox 360 contributors to this forum that ever said the 360 would lead in worldwide sales versus the PS3 and Wii. I am sure some made that prediction, but all were like the PS3 fanboys that thought the $600 wouldn't deterr users, or the Wii dooms-dayers that felt the Wii would be a mere novelty and fall out of the charts within a few days of sales: they were outside the norm, and were just stupid fanboys with no real scope of things.




Having said all that, I think the 360 was, and is moderately succuessful. For the first time in Microsoft's lifespan, it's had 2 profitable quarters, and looks to have another profitable quarter. This is great news for the cashcow Xbox we all knew and loved to hate.

And the 360, despite it's numerous flaws (lack of compelling J-Library, hardware problems, XBL costs, and lack of MS price drops), has done very well, securing a strong 2nd place in the world. Sony, while gaining, is still looking from the outside in - a feat never once thought of before this generation started (although much of this can be attributed to the Wii, Microsoft has still proven an effective adversary in the US, and I sincerely doubt the PS3 will win the LTD battle in the US ever, or at a minimum of years).


And I will go further: the Xbox 360 has done great things, but certainly nowhere near perfect: It took on the PS3 beast in terms of software, and has won. Being an Xbox owner, I was treated to crappy JRPGs, if they existed at all, way too many shooters, and little else. The 360, for a RPG gamer and Sim/Strategy gamer, am in hog heaven. Microsoft has also built the strongest Online empire of this generation, and is still doing a fine job of keeping a lead, and strong competition despite compelling strides by Nintendo and Sony.

Will the 360 manage #1 worldwide? Heck no. How 'bout #2? Probably not. But it'll still garner the strongest #3 history has ever seen, and will be stronger than any console #2 ever had been (Genesis/N64) by a long shot. Software is still the boon of the 360, and the bane of the PS3. The 360 has also butchered any sort of Microsoft record established, and long passed it. The 360 even has alot of hope for strong continuing sales: 2008 looks to be great for titles, and there is still the issue of the ultra-inhibitive price.

We've also seen what a X360 price drop has done in Europe for 4 or 5 weeks: great. Despite still being 3rd place, it's still garnering, year over year, a giant leap ahead of last year. I can only question what will happen if/when Microsoft initiates the same pricing strategies in the US. There's alot of hope if you see things the way they are (a comfortable, profitable #3 finish, and a strong hope for next gen). Only a PS3/Wii fanboy would otherwise argue.


i agree with you, however they will be no excuse for MS if they let PS3 pass them, they have the best library of games, they have a better online experiance and they are cheaper. The ps3 has few things they've done right, expect having the playstation brand.


exactly it's why it's not totally into MS hands to get people who just buy a brand which is widely the case for PS 3.... the never ending I hate MS so hate XB plays a lot also in that direction... when i could easily name as many reason to hate Sony but people don't really get into hardware quality as much as bitching against windows because their geek friends said linux is better and open source soft is the holly grail and MS should die for their way of doing things.... you put any other company than MS behind XB and i'm pretty sure PS 3 would have had more struggle than they did.... and the RRoD is also a big factor...

 

so like mrstickball said they built a stronger customer base this gen... and that could be a big problem for PS and even sony in the video game market for next gen... especially if they are still dreaming about a 10 years lifespan this gen... if MS does it right in terms of hardware... find a great new fashion like Wii and implement it right... and keep improving their service offer and capability... for a cheap price.... Sony has some really hard work to do...

First of all, MS will not get a second chance at knocking Sony again, this was it. No company could mess up as big as Sony messed up their lauch, high prices and no games. Come on, last year, i think Time magazine called the PS3 a complete failure, it was the laughing stock everywhere. And to finish behind it will be an embarrassment for MS.

 


 really how come because they have like 5 old IPs coming out ??? i can see XB coming back in sales end of this year and have a new great year in 2009 depending on what they announceat E3.... what exactly is the future of PS 3 after MGS, FF and GT 5 ????

i'm not saying PS 3 won't be second or will... but it's farf far far far far FAR from being agiven for them even in europe..... too many variables too be certain... the sales difference is really not that big... it's not really building a strong market right now.... it's just regaining little by little nothing more.... will it last or not is still up to what both will come up with....

on that I'm going out get some drinks lol :) have fun guys ;) 



insomniac17 on 16 April 2008
Legend11 said:
...
And many many other third party games and unannounced exclusives. Anyways I'm sure anyone who actually buys the system will end up being very happy with their purchase in the long run.

 As anyone with any console should be. They each offer unique things, and are all definitely worth the value.

OT: No, I don't think it can win. I also don't think the PS3 will win. As far as things are going now, I expect this gen to finish out as Wii in first, at the very least tieing the PS2 in sales, then the PS3 with a very respectable amount, though not as successful as its predecessors, and the 360 in a remarkably strong third, with sales fairly close to the PS3.



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RedArmia on 16 April 2008

No one can be dumb enough to think 360 can win. Especially since its survival is being questioned already. Even the biggest xbots can be that delusional.



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The Mann on 16 April 2008

In my opinion the world has already decided the victor for this generation, but one war the 360 can still fight is the one for runner up.



08' Year End Predictions

Wii: 46 Million
Xbox 360: 26 Million
PS3: 22 Million

Sale Predictions:

Gears Of War 2 - 7 Million
Fable 2 - 3 Million
Left 4 Dead - 1.5 Million
Infinite Undiscovery - 700k
Tales Of Vesperia - 550k
The Last Remnant - 700k
Ninja Gaiden - 800k LTD [?] On its way.
Banjo-Kazooie N&B - 2 Million
Lost Odyssey - 500k LTD [X] surpassed
Too Human - 1.4 Million

 

 

 

 

 

Legend11 on 16 April 2008
Auron said:
Legend11 said:
Personally I find it pretty funny that the PS3 was supposed to be the big bad console that was going to come out and crush everything. And here we have the Wii completely owning it almost everywhere except one or two very small countries in which the Sony fanboys there remind us of. It's really laughable to go into the Sales forum for example and see the Spain sales and know it's just some Sony fanboys wanking over the fact that the PS3 is actually outselling the Wii somewhere.

It's also laughable that the PS2 had about 5 times the sales of the Xbox but they think it's a huge victory that the PS3 might catch up to the Xbox 360 in a year or so. Oh how the mighty have fallen, lol.

 Better to be great and have fallen then to never be great at all.  The XB failed and the 360 is well on its way to fail as well.  Halo didn't help the over priced no games bluray player is still outselling it.  The gimmick motion controlled GC 1.5 has passed it overall.  But Xbots like you still posts your little lists of games that Americans and noobody else buy, shooters. It must be sad to always be looking up from the bottom of the barrel ey XBOT??


Funny you should mention shooters, does Haze, Killzone 2, and Resistance 2 mean anything to you?  What's hilarious about your statement is that it's Microsoft that is trying to make the 360's lineup more diverse while Sony seems to working overtime on shooters.  Go figure.



The Mann on 16 April 2008
Auron said:
Legend11 said:
Personally I find it pretty funny that the PS3 was supposed to be the big bad console that was going to come out and crush everything. And here we have the Wii completely owning it almost everywhere except one or two very small countries in which the Sony fanboys there remind us of. It's really laughable to go into the Sales forum for example and see the Spain sales and know it's just some Sony fanboys wanking over the fact that the PS3 is actually outselling the Wii somewhere.

It's also laughable that the PS2 had about 5 times the sales of the Xbox but they think it's a huge victory that the PS3 might catch up to the Xbox 360 in a year or so. Oh how the mighty have fallen, lol.

Better to be great and have fallen then to never be great at all. The XB failed and the 360 is well on its way to fail as well. Halo didn't help the over priced no games bluray player is still outselling it. The gimmick motion controlled GC 1.5 has passed it overall. But Xbots like you still posts your little lists of games that Americans and noobody else buy, shooters. It must be sad to always be looking up from the bottom of the barrel ey XBOT??


It's really funny because i go an look at this years line up and i see one console loaded with them, an hint its not the 360, and even still you try to ignore the fact that 360 has a diverse line up and will continue to diversify it's line up. So my advice to you is stop living in the last gen, believe it or not the mighty Playstation at this very moment is in #3.



08' Year End Predictions

Wii: 46 Million
Xbox 360: 26 Million
PS3: 22 Million

Sale Predictions:

Gears Of War 2 - 7 Million
Fable 2 - 3 Million
Left 4 Dead - 1.5 Million
Infinite Undiscovery - 700k
Tales Of Vesperia - 550k
The Last Remnant - 700k
Ninja Gaiden - 800k LTD [?] On its way.
Banjo-Kazooie N&B - 2 Million
Lost Odyssey - 500k LTD [X] surpassed
Too Human - 1.4 Million

 

 

 

 

 

Domicinator on 16 April 2008

I have just recently returned to console gaming. I got sick of always worrying about how to get the money for my next PC upgrade, how to afford games at the same time, how to justify playing on the PC when all the same games and all my friends are on consoles, the looming death of the relevance of PC gaming, etc. As a result, I've also been recently reintroduced to the "console war" that happens every generation. I thought this site tried to stay away from these ridiculous threads, but I don't think that's possible when arguing about consoles. It's like Coke vs. Pepsi, Mac vs. PC, etc. But here are my observations from my last four months as a console gamer:

1. Fanboys still exist. It's like they want the other platform to fail because it will validate their console purchase. The way I see it, there's no point being a fanboy this generation. All three consoles have sold well above the mark where they would be considered a success. The only console posting Dreamcast-like numbers so far is the PS3, but it should come out of that soon enough.

2. Despite the fact that the PS3 is still in dead last and has a LOT of catching up to do before it recovers, Sony fanboys are already celebrating the failure of the Wii and the 360. I think this is a bit like when Hillary Clinton was losing every state in the primaries but still inviting Barack Obama to be her running mate when she wins. It's too soon to call, guys. And none of the consoles are going to fail this gen. 360 and Wii have a very good foundation as an install base and both systems are continuing to sell well. I can't imagine PS3 not following suit, but I don't think it's going to be as soon as everyone thinks. Developers are still complaining about how hard it is to make games for the PS3, and it still has a pretty puny exclusive list. GT5 and MGS4 will probably be great, but it remains to be seen if they will push hardware or not.

3. The console war is mainly fought on techie sites by dorks like us. Joe Gamer and Joe Gamer's mom and dad probably haven't heard of the RRoD before. They probably don't know that the PS3 has a cell processor and the 360 has a triple core processor. They probably don't know the differences between PSN and Xbox Live. What they do know is that their kid wants a certain game(s) and after that it's up to them to make the decision.

It's fun to argue about this stuff and get different opinions, but it's also a huge waste of time. Everyone's afraid of their console of choice becoming the next Dreamcast. You don't have to worry about that this gen. The Dreamcast failed because of a pretty unique set of shortcomings that none of the current consoles have. End of story.




Kasz216 on 16 April 2008

Sure it could. It's not likely... but it could.

However i would argue the 360 was never supposed to win. Microsoft is just trying to improve each year, and prevent Sony from having a monopoly like they did with the PS2.

Possibly getting their own monopoly around the time set top entertainment downloading is mass market so they can have claim to a market they believe is rightfully theirs...

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