Please for the love of God get out of between each others legs. If someone says they want to be a women or man, then who the hell cares. Seriously. No one is hurting you and you don't own everyone elses perception. Back in the day, people where trying to stop mixed races from having sex. They were just so offended that people where doing what they wanted. Its not in your purview to micromanage what people do with their lives or themselves. Live your own life.  No one is encouraging underage sex change surgery. 

Lemme say I haven't read the whole thread yet(cause I don't have time) but.. while I understand this is very unusual, and historically parents don't do this.

But how is this different from parents pushing a gender to a child simply based on their genitalia? We have evolved enough today that we know the genitalia is not a definitive ruling of gender. If the child wants to dress like the other sex, do we forbid it? I don't have children, and probably will not have them. But this is a legit question. I know trans people, and from talking to them, I know that a "normal" upbringing for a trans child is torturous and miserable. Is that not enough, for you to hear the child?

I don't claim to know what's right, but it is a legit thing to question.

"No one is hurting you and you don't own everyone elses perception."

so why do trans people own my perception?

why do you think I do not have the right to not perceive a trans person as their preferred gender if they do not appear to be that gender?

"Back in the day, people where trying to stop mixed races from having sex."

this is about as relevant as me saying back in the day people were trying to stop people from having sex with sheep, which is to say its not relevant at all

"They were just so offended that people where doing what they wanted."

this is not the problem, the problem is people dictating to OTHER PEOPLE THAT THEY DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO THEIR OWN PERCEPTION OF REALITY

"Its not in your purview to micromanage what people do with their lives or themselves."

that I will do with my own perception of reality despite whatever delusional utopian ideology is in vogue

"so why do trans people own my perception?"

I just said that you don't own their perception.  Why would they own yours?  What?

"this is about as relevant as me saying back in the day people were trying to stop people from having sex with sheep"

Comparing mixed race sex to bestiality  Don't be a sick f*ck.  Why did you even take it there?

"the problem is people dictating to OTHER PEOPLE THAT THEY DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO THEIR OWN PERCEPTION OF REALITY"

Wrong.  NO ONE is telling you what to do.  They are only telling you how they fell and perceive themselves.  You just can't handle it.  

Example:  This is how I feel about myself and this is how I want to live my life

You: You are messing with my perception of you!  How dare you.  Live like I SAID you should!

Just back off.  You are trying to turn yourself into a victim because they wont comply with what you want. 

"that I will do with my own perception of reality despite whatever delusional utopian ideology is in vogue"

You don't know where you end and other people begin. 

"I just said that you don't own their perception.  Why would they own yours?  What?"

you're saying that the trans person gets to dictate to me what my perception of them should be are you not?

"Comparing mixed race sex to bestiality  Don't be a sick f*ck.  Why did you even take it there?"

I didn't compare the two i'm simply saying that what you said was irrelevant

"They are only telling you how they fell and perceive themselves.  You just can't handle it."

ok let say this guy 

demands that women perceive him as attractive even though clearly he is not, should those women be forced to change their perception of him?

"This is how I feel about myself and this is how I want to live my life"

I'd say that's great, live your life, I don't have issues with people changing their bodies, or going on hormones or whatever, that has nothing to do with me

"You are trying to turn yourself into a victim because they wont comply with what you want. "

huh? what I want? but I don't want anything in this situation, all I want is the right to my own perception of reality

"You don't know where you end and other people begin. "

can you elaborate on what you are trying to say here?

User was moderated for this post.

- Hiku

"you're saying that the trans person gets to dictate to me what my perception of them should be are you not?"

I literally said the opposite.  NO ONE gets to dictate to anyone what their perception should be UNLESS their perception means to do you harm.  Got it.  Don't try to unpack it,  it is really simple. 

"I didn't compare the two i'm simply saying that what you said was irrelevant"

'As relevant as' is a comparison.  Period.  There is nothing to debate here.  You compared mixed race sex to sex with animals.  Just stop while you are ahead.  I have no interest in discussing this further.

"You don't know where you end and other people begin. "

"can you elaborate on what you are trying to say here?"

Okay got you.  See this is the point:  What you are failing to realize is that you are never supposed to feel forced to accept what other people perceive.  Or even what they want you to perceive.  Insisting that you have to is nonsense.  And this goes both ways.   No one is forcing you to accept their lifestyle and you don't have the right to tell them how to live or who to be.  Repeat that last sentence to yourself until you find peace.  

You let them live their truth because it doesn't affect you and because you want to live yours without people on your back about what you should be doing.  When I said you don't know where you end and other people begin, that is what I meant.  You and them should not feel forced to comply with each others perceptions. The hostility comes from disrespect and intolerance projected at each other.  That is not living. 

You learn more about yourself by talking and learning about people who you are not.  Not by changing everyone into you.

"No one is forcing you to accept their lifestyle"

I don't have a problem with their lifestyle same way I don't have a problem with his lifestyle

but the fact remains that he's fat and unattractive

how would you react if I told you, that you were no longer allowed to perceive this person as being fat, because he demands that you perceive him as being fit and muscular... how would that sound to you?

"you don't have the right to tell them how to live or who to be"

correct and I never implied otherwise

"You let them live their truth because it doesn't affect you and because you want to live yours without people on your back about what you should be doing."

again true up until it starts to affect me

so again I'm going to ask

how would you react if I told you, that were you no longer allowed to perceive this person as being fat, because he demands that you perceive him as being fit and muscular... how would that sound to you?

"You compared mixed race sex to sex with animals."

I'm a black man dude, but I've already my point clear that I was simply saying what you said was irrelevant

sometimes I forget to be overly careful with how I word things given the type of people I'll be discussing these things with

"how would you react if I told you, that were you no longer allowed to perceive this person as being fat, because he demands that you perceive him as being fit and muscular... how would that sound to you?"

To me he is fat.  And that is where it ends.  If he wants to think he is hot then so be it.  I could give a damn what he feels about himself.  Nor is it my job to make him feel any sort of way about himself.

So when it comes to a Trans person, they see themselves as one gender and depending on your understanding of gender, you may agree or disagree with them.  And thats fine.  But if they want to be address as a women and they ask to do so, what is the big deal with respecting their wishes?  You don't have to be on board with their entire mode of thought to show respect.  I think you are confusing accepting perception with being respectful.

"I'm a black man dude, but I've already my point clear that I was simply saying what you said was irrelevant

sometimes I forget to be overly careful with how I word things given the type of people I'll be discussing these things with"

Yeah I'm a black man too.  And you should know that mixed race sex and marriage was outlawed for quite sometime in some states because people felt that it shouldn't be allowed because it was against their perceptions of how the races should mingle.  The relevance comes from my example of how overreaching some people take their perceptions of what should and shouldn't be. 

"To me he is fat."

suppose he chose to identify as thin and muscular? what would happen then?

"I could give a damn what he feels about himself.  Nor is it my job to make him feel any sort of way about himself."

well that's my position

"what is the big deal with respecting their wishes?"

the same problem with that man choosing to identify as thin and muscular, again I don't care about his lifestyle and I don't want to to force him to do anything

but I don't think I should be forced to play along with what is clearly delusion

"because it was against their perceptions of how the races should mingle. "

I don't think that is relevant because in that situation the choice of people to have sex with each other is being impeded

but with the fat guy and trans people it is the right to your own perception that is being impeded

if I was to suggest that it should be put into law that women should be forced to perceive that this guy

should be regarded as being the same as this man

that would be called nuts, but what's actually happening is that it is being put into law that this

is the same as this, once "identity" is declared

And what laws are you referencing exactly?