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Forums - Politics Discussion - Alex Jones Claims Psychosis Made Him Believe SAndy Hook Shooting Was Staged

o_O.Q on 31 March 2019
Chris Hu said:
o_O.Q said:

so you dropped the assertion about alex jones being part of a religious sect? why would you make a claim like that when you can't substantiate it?

"but in the real world Alex Jones is a major homophobic and religious nut"

all i'm asking for is that you substantiate your assertions

"He regularly claims that certain people are demons and witches or possessed  by the devil only religious nuts do stupid stuff like that"

can you give me a quote or a video demonstrating this behavior?

"Also I guess you live under a rock or never followed the real news instead of your cult leader Alex Jones because on a regular basis there are news stories about religious leaders being exposed as being closeted homosexuals after being caught molesting their followers."

lol my cult leader? which cult are you claiming i'm a part of i wonder?

you stated they were a ton of closeted homosexuals who were religious leaders, can you give me 5 names?

Do your own research and stop living under a rock.  Also your reading comprehension is piss poor I never said that Alex Jones is part of a religious sect I said he is a religious nut you can be a religious nut without being a part of any religious sect or church.  Anyway like I said before I'm done with you.

"Do your own research and stop living under a rock"

i'm asking you about assertions you are making, you understand that right? that just throwing claims out without any evidence to ground them is completely pointless?

i mean i could say: "there is a giant kraken that was shrunk down to the size of a tadpole living in the water supply" but as i have no evidence to substantiate that claim it would be pointless to make it

you understand how this should work now?

"you can be a religious nut without being a part of any religious sect or church. "

i wasn't aware of that, what religious beliefs does he have then? but i would think that it should be obvious that since religion is a collective activity then to claim someone is religious implies they are part of a larger grouping



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o_O.Q on 31 March 2019
the-pi-guy said:
o_O.Q said:

"No. It's a conspiracy theory.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrazine#Amphibians"

first off wikipedia is not a valid source of evidence but regardless, did you actually read this?

"Its principal finding was that susceptibility of wood frog tadpoles to infection by E. trivolvis is increased only when hosts were exposed to an atrazine concentration of 30 ng/L and not to 3 ng/L."

"A 2008 study reported that tadpoles developed deformed hearts and impaired kidneys and digestive systems when chronically exposed to atrazine concentrations of 10 ppm in their early stages of life."

"A 2010 Hayes study concluded that atrazine rendered 75% of male frogs sterile and turned one in 10 into females"

"In 2010, the Australian Pesticides and Veterinary Medicines Authority (APVMA) tentatively concluded that environmental atrazine "at existing levels of exposure" was not affecting amphibian populations in Australia consistent with the 2007 EPA findings."

the contention here is about what concentrations cause the frogs to become sterile and change their sex not that it doesn't happen at all

"And even if it did, Mammals and Amphibians are very different... Some Amphibians will change their sex if there is a lack of one sex in an environment."

yes mammals and amphibians are different but endocrine disruptors have adverse effects on both groups do dismiss that as a conspiracy theory is nonsensical

"If you have a preference for Heterosexuality in the general population, then you will generally hold it's opposite, Homosexuality in contempt"

you understand that you've pretty much described every human population that has ever existed right? its kind of necessary for most people to reproduce since that's kind of necessary to replace the people that die

that has nothing to do with homosexuality as a lifestyle, its simply a fact of reality

"especially when you start conflating it with various crazy conspiracy theories."

to reiterate endocrine disruptors being harmful, atrazine being one example is not a conspiracy theory

"I have provided evidence."

you apparently didn't read your own source

Just to throw it out there, the comment by Alex Jones about "turning the frogs gay" was about the government making a "gay bomb" and putting it in tap water.  He's "sick of being socially engineered".  

So say there's a chemical that "turns the freaking frogs gay" (as someone pointed out some varieties of frogs naturally transition between sexes.), where's the evidence that the government is putting "gay bombs" in tap water?  

You do a great job of taking things out of context to defend a guy who is literally claiming psychosis was causing him to say things.  

"was about the government making a "gay bomb" and putting it in tap water.  "

this wasn't posted before now, where can i find his statement about that?

but yeah if he said that then that's crazy, even if he could conclusively argue that endocrine disruptors are as big a problem as he is claiming he still wouldn't be able to prove government intent

"You do a great job of taking things out of context to defend a guy who is literally claiming psychosis was causing him to say things.  "

asking for evidence is not taking things out of context, the main thing i saw being quoted was his comments on gay frogs/atrazine and i couldn't believe i was seeing people saying its just a conspiracy theory when there is a multitude of research showing the harmful effects of endocrine disruptoors

https://www.niehs.nih.gov/research/programs/endocrine/index.cfm

https://www.who.int/ceh/publications/endocrine_disrupters_child/en/

https://presse.inserm.fr/en/researchers-warn-about-mixtures-of-endocrine-disruptors-during-pregnancy/29138/



o_O.Q on 31 March 2019
Bofferbrauer2 said:
thismeintiel said:

Right-wing dictatorships?  Care to name a few? I hope we aren't going to play the game of labeling Socialist dictatorships, like the Nazis and USSR, as right-wing, because that helps your argument. 

You know that Nazi stands for nationalsocialists, right? As in, just one word in it's original German, as it meant to be social towards the state, or nation (and by extension, the Nazi party), and not it's people, hence the name. The state of the state was everything that really counted, it's inhabitants were only meant to contribute to it. The only socialistic part of it was that they were using a semi-planned economy in so far that they had 3-year and 5-year plans as targets for the economy as a whole. The economy was actually pretty close to the state capitalism nowadays used in China, but that's the extent of socialism in Nazi Germany.

Because, since you seem to think Nazi Germany was a socialistic state, tell me what socialist policies did the Nazis put in place? I'm waiting.

And to name a few others, how about Irak under Saddam? Saudi-Arabia? Augusto Pinochet in Chile? The Shah in Persia (named Iran since the people deposed him)? Actually easier to just name all those dictators who the US instated as a counterbalance to the USSR specifically because they were not socialistic - and there are a lot of them!

"tell me what socialist policies did the Nazis put in place?"

free healthcare for all

free childcare for all

state funded education

gun control

the economy in germany was centrally controlled by the government(people keep bringing up this bullshit about them privitising businesses but that is a lie, they controlled the businesses they "privitised" which is an oxymoron, its a silly sleight of hand socialists use to deny their control of the economy)

initially jobs for everyone then they restricted that for women but it could be argued that they collectively decided that it would be best for women to stay home which is socialist suppression anyway

and i could go on and on and on

can you list for me their right wing policies outside of their contempt for non-aryans?



o_O.Q on 31 March 2019
collint0101 said:
thismeintiel said:

No.  You see what the problem is is that people who want Socialism either lie about it to others or allow themselves to be lied to.  Even if someone tells you they are Socialist (Hitler or Maduro), if their regime turns to shit, others will make up poor excuses for it to actually have been a right-wing regime so that it is never Socialism's fault.  Of course, all of history teaches us one thing.  It will always fail.  And fail miserably.

The truth is Socialism is a lie.  It is just a tool to get the ignorant to willfully give up all of their power to a dictatorship, with the promise of equality for all.  Look at the people in power who push Socialism here in the States.  Are any of them truly one with the people they so want to "lift up?"  Nope.  They all take advantage of the power/wealth they are given by being a politician/celebrity.  They have several homes.  Fly in private jets.  Drive expensive cars.  Funny thing is, they are also the ones who push for climate change measures, while being some of the biggest contributors, according to their own standards, to it.  You think they are going to give that up?  Hell no.  They will continue to be massive hypocrites while pushing their large, all-encompassing government agenda that involves less freedom and leisure for anyone not of the elite.  Of course, I don't believe they are hypocrites.  Just liars.

Ignoring the rant about private Jets and what not what legitimately socialist policy did the Nazis put in place? Show me an example of the Nazis seizing the means of production. How did the Nazis eliminate the upper class and evenly redistribute wealth? Yes they had socialist policies but basically all nations have some form of socialist policies including the United States. Show me an example of an overtly socialist policy put in place by the Nazis that has no real equivalent in any largly capitalist society. 

"tell me what socialist policies did the Nazis put in place?"

free healthcare for all

free childcare for all

state funded education

gun control

the economy in germany was centrally controlled by the government(people keep bringing up this bullshit about them privitising businesses but that is a lie, they controlled the businesses they "privitised" which is an oxymoron, its a silly sleight of hand socialists use to deny their control of the economy)

initially jobs for everyone then they restricted that for women but it could be argued that they collectively decided that it would be best for women to stay home which is socialist suppression anyway

and i could go on and on and on

can you list for me their right wing policies outside of their contempt for non-aryans?

"Show me an example of the Nazis seizing the means of production."

businesses could not be run in germany outside of the directive's of the government i don't see how everyone could think hitler was such a dictator and at the same time he'd just let people run whatever businesses they wanted however they wanted... well regardless its a fact that this was not the case

the businesses people have claimed he privitised were still run under the directives of the government which means what? it means the government controlled the means of production

"Show me an example of an overtly socialist policy put in place by the Nazis that has no real equivalent in any largly capitalist society. "

places like the us have a mixed system meaning that while people may run their private business how they want with a fair bit of freedom, people are taxed to provide social programs, why do you think you have to pay taxes?



o_O.Q on 31 March 2019
the-pi-guy said:
o_O.Q said:

"was about the government making a "gay bomb" and putting it in tap water.  "

this wasn't posted before now, where can i find his statement about that?

but yeah if he said that then that's crazy, even if he could conclusively argue that endocrine disruptors are as big a problem as he is claiming he still wouldn't be able to prove government intent

"You do a great job of taking things out of context to defend a guy who is literally claiming psychosis was causing him to say things.  "

asking for evidence is not taking things out of context, the main thing i saw being quoted was his comments on gay frogs/atrazine and i couldn't believe i was seeing people saying its just a conspiracy theory when there is a multitude of research showing the harmful effects of endocrine disruptoors

https://www.niehs.nih.gov/research/programs/endocrine/index.cfm

https://www.who.int/ceh/publications/endocrine_disrupters_child/en/

https://presse.inserm.fr/en/researchers-warn-about-mixtures-of-endocrine-disruptors-during-pregnancy/29138/

For context:
https://youtu.be/_ePLkAm8i2s

i just looked this up and he's actually right

http://mentalfloss.com/article/49042/us-militarys-idiotic-idea-gay-bomb

https://www.foxnews.com/story/air-force-considered-gay-love-bomb-against-enemies

i don't believe it lol



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sundin13 on 31 March 2019

Some Right Wing or Anti-Socialist policies from the Nazis:
-Hypernationalism
-Elimination from government and imprisonment of communists and socialists
-Outlawing trade unions
-General social conservative views (such as anti-homosexuality)
-Focus on race instead of class (which is basically a complete rejection of the core tenet of socialism)

Generally, Historians acknowledge that the Nazis used some of the language of socialism in order to win over the lower classes (while simultaneously using socialism/communism to scare the middle and upper classes), however they were never actually truly socialist, and were in fact vehemently opposed to socialism and communism. However, in my opinion, that doesn't really matter much. Why? Because what made the nazis evil? Was it their healthcare system? No. Was it their education system? No. It was their hypernationalism, which is a component of far right ideologies, not far left ideologies.



Snoopy on 31 March 2019
the-pi-guy said:
Snoopy said:

That isn't the point. You are willing to call one media outlet and not the other. I call them all out unless they're tyt or daily wire because at least they have the guts to say their political affiliation.

That's false.  I do call out other media outlets.  I can call them out for being lazy, looking for attention, etc.  

Only reason I didn't was because you already did.  

No, you didn't call them out because you're not open to debate.



collint0101 on 31 March 2019
o_O.Q said:
collint0101 said:

"tell me what socialist policies did the Nazis put in place?"

free healthcare for all

free childcare for all

state funded education

gun control

the economy in germany was centrally controlled by the government(people keep bringing up this bullshit about them privitising businesses but that is a lie, they controlled the businesses they "privitised" which is an oxymoron, its a silly sleight of hand socialists use to deny their control of the economy)

initially jobs for everyone then they restricted that for women but it could be argued that they collectively decided that it would be best for women to stay home which is socialist suppression anyway

and i could go on and on and on

can you list for me their right wing policies outside of their contempt for non-aryans?

"Show me an example of the Nazis seizing the means of production."

businesses could not be run in germany outside of the directive's of the government i don't see how everyone could think hitler was such a dictator and at the same time he'd just let people run whatever businesses they wanted however they wanted... well regardless its a fact that this was not the case

the businesses people have claimed he privitised were still run under the directives of the government which means what? it means the government controlled the means of production

"Show me an example of an overtly socialist policy put in place by the Nazis that has no real equivalent in any largly capitalist society. "

places like the us have a mixed system meaning that while people may run their private business how they want with a fair bit of freedom, people are taxed to provide social programs, why do you think you have to pay taxes?

Germany has had some form of universal healthcare since the 1880s and German public education is even older. I saw nothing that describes free child care for all. As for gun control that is neither inherently right or left wing as it's a policy pushed by both sides in various nations and circumstances. Even then gun rights for non Jews were expanded under the Nazis when compared to the previous German republic. As for economic policy it's a myriad of inconsistency and reactions to specific events. Key members of the Nazis were overtly left wing while Hitler himself was meeting with business owners to assure them he was pro business. Privatization occurred along with an increase in monopolies while certain industries were absorbed into the government as a way to boost military power. The Nazis had a very mixed economy, it's like the extremes of both capitalism and socialism. In regards to right wing policies, slavery is arguably a conservative economic policy or at the very least anti socialist since Marxism seeks to end the systems of class that cause slavery to exist. The removal of women from the work force is a result of social conservatism. Also abortion was made illegal for German citizens. 



o_O.Q on 31 March 2019
sundin13 said:
Some Right Wing or Anti-Socialist policies from the Nazis:
-Hypernationalism
-Elimination from government and imprisonment of communists and socialists
-Outlawing trade unions
-General social conservative views (such as anti-homosexuality)
-Focus on race instead of class (which is basically a complete rejection of the core tenet of socialism)

Generally, Historians acknowledge that the Nazis used some of the language of socialism in order to win over the lower classes (while simultaneously using socialism/communism to scare the middle and upper classes), however they were never actually truly socialist, and were in fact vehemently opposed to socialism and communism. However, in my opinion, that doesn't really matter much. Why? Because what made the nazis evil? Was it their healthcare system? No. Was it their education system? No. It was their hypernationalism, which is a component of far right ideologies, not far left ideologies.

"Hypernationalism"

socialism is defined as the control of the means of production by the government/collective, how is hypernationalism at odds with government controlling resources?

"Elimination from government and imprisonment of communists and socialists"

this is completely irrelevant, it is possible for people with the same political viewpoint to have disagreement about how to implement or maintain their proposed system leading to conflict

this is why the left "eating themselves" is a meme

"Outlawing trade unions"

i don't necessarily agree but i'll concede this one

"General social conservative views (such as anti-homosexuality)"

this has absolutely nothing to do with whether they were socialist or not... again to reiterate socialism is the control of the means of production by the government/collective

"Focus on race instead of class"

elaborate

"however they were never actually truly socialist"

which is a great assertion at odds with reality since i can list off all of their policies and the vast majority of them are sociaist policy

it amazes me how we can see socialists screaming for free healthcare, education, child care, gun control etc etc etc and we still have people like you who deny the connection to what the nazis did

"Because what made the nazis evil?"

they had too much power over the people of their nation which is leftist ideology at the core, they could never have done the things they did had the control of government been limited reasonably

this is why its concerning today that socialists are arguing for greater government control and a peeling back of the rights that ensure that this cannot happen again

that's the problem here not this nonsense about hypernationalism, how could he practice that if he was restricted in scope with regards to his power? if the american people had any sense they'd be arguing for greater transparency in government and a reduction in the power of government but of course socialists don't agree with reduction in government power



sundin13 on 31 March 2019
o_O.Q said:
sundin13 said:
Some Right Wing or Anti-Socialist policies from the Nazis:
-Hypernationalism
-Elimination from government and imprisonment of communists and socialists
-Outlawing trade unions
-General social conservative views (such as anti-homosexuality)
-Focus on race instead of class (which is basically a complete rejection of the core tenet of socialism)

Generally, Historians acknowledge that the Nazis used some of the language of socialism in order to win over the lower classes (while simultaneously using socialism/communism to scare the middle and upper classes), however they were never actually truly socialist, and were in fact vehemently opposed to socialism and communism. However, in my opinion, that doesn't really matter much. Why? Because what made the nazis evil? Was it their healthcare system? No. Was it their education system? No. It was their hypernationalism, which is a component of far right ideologies, not far left ideologies.

"Hypernationalism"

socialism is defined as the control of the means of production by the government/collective, how is hypernationalism at odds with government controlling resources?

"Elimination from government and imprisonment of communists and socialists"

this is completely irrelevant, it is possible for people with the same political viewpoint to have disagreement about how to implement or maintain their proposed system leading to conflict

this is why the left "eating themselves" is a meme

"Outlawing trade unions"

i don't necessarily agree but i'll concede this one

"General social conservative views (such as anti-homosexuality)"

this has absolutely nothing to do with whether they were socialist or not... again to reiterate socialism is the control of the means of production by the government/collective

"Focus on race instead of class"

elaborate

"however they were never actually truly socialist"

which is a great assertion at odds with reality since i can list off all of their policies and the vast majority of them are sociaist policy

it amazes me how we can see socialists screaming for free healthcare, education, child care, gun control etc etc etc and we still have people like you who deny the connection to what the nazis did

"Because what made the nazis evil?"

they had too much power over the people of their nation which is leftist ideology at the core, they could never have done the things they did had the control of government been limited reasonably

this is why its concerning today that socialists are arguing for greater government control and a peeling back of the rights that ensure that this cannot happen again

that's the problem here not this nonsense about hypernationalism, how could he practice that if he was restricted in scope with regards to his power? if the american people had any sense they'd be arguing for greater transparency in government and a reduction in the power of government but of course socialists don't agree with reduction in government power

"Some Right Wing or Anti-Socialist policies from the Nazis"

Decontextualization.