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Forums - Politics Discussion - Why Jordan Peele is Unlikely to Cast White Lead: 'I've Seen That Movie'

In all fairness , there are way more “white” movies than black movies.

Then again, there are way more black movies than Asian movies. How about American Native movies? Latino movies?



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sugenis said:
jason1637 said:

It would not make sense to reverse it because white people have been over represented while its the opposite for other races.

A white only NBA is a different scenario. Peele never said that he wont hire white people.  There will still be white people in his movies but they just wont be lead actors.

I don't fully think you understand what disproportionately being represented means. A population that makes up the majority; are going to be the ones most represented, that's just logic, that's math. Being overrepresented is when a population that makes up about 13% of the population dominates entire mediums. That's when it's disproportionate. Anyway on the subject of Us, the movie is not about race at all. Did people even watch it?

That's fun, because I'm not sure you know what disproportionately means. If whites make up 61% of the population but make up 86% of the leading roles in film than they are disproportionately represented. Now that doesn't sound like a big difference if but from the minority perspective that's the difference between having 39% of the roles if it were proportionate to 14%, a massive drop. 

Here's a report on the proportion of leads by race compared to the general population: 

https://socialsciences.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/UCLA-Hollywood-Diversity-Report-2018-2-27-18.pdf



...

Hiku said:
DonFerrari said:

When I say they, I'm saying everyone that thinks about making quotas, new segregation and similar stuff. Same as with again the double standard when we have black people posting hatred against white people (and being applauded). You won't won over "the other side" when you continuously say how much you hate them or that they are the enemy.

I do agree with your point that having all white, all black, all child, all old isn't prejudice by default, as that could be necessary to the story. One could certainly question the motivation to only write or direct stories that have a single group, but that also isn't what I was complaining.

I'm not even complaining that he basically said that all possible stories with white leads have been told (like if skin color would change stories by themselves, even though the examples Rol gave were very good on those were good movies with non-white cast, not sure if we can say that the race was the reason for it though).

My sole point is that when a black director wants to have his vision and follow it, even if it were racist (don't think it is in this case), media embraces. But if same was done by a white director it would be heavily criticized. That is a double standard that helps to divide and segregate. And to retain the high ground they will make claims of "reverse racism doesn't exist", "racism only exist if one race is systematically harmed", etc.

I see who you are referring to then.

But since no one in this story has expressed that they hate people of any particular skincolor, and you say you don't think that what this director said is coming from a place of racism, why not use an example of where those things actually happened instead, as the basis for your argument?

Because it's impossible for anyone to debate the circumstances surrounding a statement like "black people posting hatred against white people (and being applauded)", if we don't know what you're referring to. Maybe no one would agree with that statement. Or there were circumstances worth noting, or misinterpretations were made.
For example, recently someone based their argument around the idea that a person was banned from an event. When people looked into it, it turns out there seemingly was no ban. The misconception came from the fact that he was escorted out by security. But that was after he decided to leave. The security escort was there to keep him safe. Someone just read 'escorted out by security' and assume they were forcibly removed.

So before people debate a particular issue, it's often important to have the details, and not just hypotheticals, because of how circumstances can vary heavily from case to case.

Regarding your last paragraph. I want to see if I understand what you're saying. (I'll ignore the "even if it's racist" part unless you specify a case that was, so I can actually comment on it.)
What you're saying is, if a director says he wants to only make movies focusing on different cultures/ethnicities, for example his next movie would be about the Chinese Han dynasty, so he's unlikely to cast any white people, as it would be an all asian cast, people would be fine with that.
But if a white director said he wants to make movies focusing on white people, and would be unlikely to hire people of color, people would be upset about that?
Is that what you're saying, and is that the issue you have?

Hiku I would say you captured most of the revelant point.

On the "even if it's racist" (not claiming Jordan is) I was talking that there could/have been situations where the choice was racist but since it was against white people it was just ignored. But since from what you are saying I understand you would be against racism no matter the source or target we don't have to dwelve much on it.

And also you are right on today landscape in USA someone saying he wants to make a serie of movies based on Han dynasty and thus would only hire asian people (let's ignore that we accept that anyone from asia play any role even if someone that have intimacy with this ethinicities can easily differentiate Japanese, Korean, Chinese, among others) no one would bat an eye and that is totally cool for me, but if someone said he will only cast white people because he wants to do movies based only on experiences of white people or even because the setting is historically on an all white place he would get criticism for not being diverse.

Again, I'm 100% pro creators being free to chose what they want and being criticized on the merits of the result being bad when that happens (would open a caveat for imbecile changes of cast on adaptations that only purpose is shoe horned diversity, still normally those works end up being bad anyway), what I'm against in here is that this same freedom of choice isn't fully embraced depending on who/what is the target.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Torillian said:
sugenis said:

I don't fully think you understand what disproportionately being represented means. A population that makes up the majority; are going to be the ones most represented, that's just logic, that's math. Being overrepresented is when a population that makes up about 13% of the population dominates entire mediums. That's when it's disproportionate. Anyway on the subject of Us, the movie is not about race at all. Did people even watch it?

That's fun, because I'm not sure you know what disproportionately means. If whites make up 61% of the population but make up 86% of the leading roles in film than they are disproportionately represented. Now that doesn't sound like a big difference if but from the minority perspective that's the difference between having 39% of the roles if it were proportionate to 14%, a massive drop. 

Here's a report on the proportion of leads by race compared to the general population: 

https://socialsciences.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/UCLA-Hollywood-Diversity-Report-2018-2-27-18.pdf

I'm sure you know this since you have special tags...but honestly it's a futile quest to try to instill logic or reason into the minds of white males who are convinced they are being repressed. Few delusions are grander than that of the privileged convinced they're the victims here. 



wow gotta say these threads really continue to show me how disconnected from reality ppl in this community are about racial dynamics.



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AngryLittleAlchemist said:
It really just sounds like white leads are not suited for the roles he's trying to create, I'm pretty sure Get Out and US are about the experience of black people, at least thematically.

I didn't get that sense from any of his interviews regarding "Us".  

It’s important to me that we can tell black stories without it being about race,” Peele says. “I realized I had never seen a horror movie of this kind, where there’s an African-American family at the center that just is. After you get over the initial realization that you’re watching a black family in a horror film, you’re just watching a movie. You’re just watching people. I feel like it proves a very valid and different point than Get Out, which is, not everything is about race."



DonFerrari said:
MrWayne said:

Do you realise that you behave exactly the same way as that idiot who said Kingdom Come: Deliverance is white supremacist propaganda?

Creative freedom is one of the most important things in an artform therefore it is good that directors get the opportunity to hire an all black, white, asian or completely diverse cast if they really want to.

And btw you can be an advocate for creative freedom and still criticize a work of art that was made with a lot of creative freedom, when it's boring. (With Days Gone that wasn't even the case, the author liked the carakter)

You either didn't understood me, or ignored several replies.

I want him to have as much freedom and cast whoever he wants. My point is if it was a white guy saying he will only cast white leads there would have been an outcry from media, while on this case they will applaud this behavior.

This is exactly why you do not get the point.  In an industry where the default is a white male lead, where the default is white male directors, where the purse strings for big budget movies are controlled by old white men.  You are trying to pretend that everything is equal and thus the context of his statement should be considered equally if a White male made the same statement.  Context is king in understanding a person view point and the statements they say.  In your original OP, you only took out the part that supported your own interpretation of what Peel stated ignoring everything else because it did not fit your argument.

You want to paint a picture that everything is equal so every statement can be weighted with the same scale but its not.  This is the problem with your stance.  Things are not equal.  POC are not represented on the same scale as white people and definitely as lead roles.  Trying to make a black and white case on this point seems foolish when the playing field isn't level.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_black_films_of_the_2010s

I personally don't have an issue with Jordan's comments, let him make what he wants. I just hope that there's no shitstorm when a white director says the same thing about a white lead.



Torillian said:
sugenis said:

I don't fully think you understand what disproportionately being represented means. A population that makes up the majority; are going to be the ones most represented, that's just logic, that's math. Being overrepresented is when a population that makes up about 13% of the population dominates entire mediums. That's when it's disproportionate. Anyway on the subject of Us, the movie is not about race at all. Did people even watch it?

That's fun, because I'm not sure you know what disproportionately means. If whites make up 61% of the population but make up 86% of the leading roles in film than they are disproportionately represented. Now that doesn't sound like a big difference if but from the minority perspective that's the difference between having 39% of the roles if it were proportionate to 14%, a massive drop. 

Here's a report on the proportion of leads by race compared to the general population: 

https://socialsciences.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/UCLA-Hollywood-Diversity-Report-2018-2-27-18.pdf

I'm doubtful of any statistics that just use 'minority' or 'poc' and 'white' without defining anything. Primarily, because many Hispanics consider themselves white and will declare themselves that way on the census and other forms. However, there's no way that report is correct in declaring white as 61% of the population unless they do not include any Hispanic population. Even worse, that report doesn't include any hard data in its appendix or even source the demographics data for its claims. They just declare 'these are the true and factual numbers' with no citation. Even if they gathered the data themselves it needs a detailed methodology in the appendix. 

It's clearly an article piece instead of an actual sociology paper, regardless of its writers.



Machiavellian said:
DonFerrari said:

You either didn't understood me, or ignored several replies.

I want him to have as much freedom and cast whoever he wants. My point is if it was a white guy saying he will only cast white leads there would have been an outcry from media, while on this case they will applaud this behavior.

This is exactly why you do not get the point.  In an industry where the default is a white male lead, where the default is white male directors, where the purse strings for big budget movies are controlled by old white men.  You are trying to pretend that everything is equal and thus the context of his statement should be considered equally if a White male made the same statement.  Context is king in understanding a person view point and the statements they say.  In your original OP, you only took out the part that supported your own interpretation of what Peel stated ignoring everything else because it did not fit your argument.

You want to paint a picture that everything is equal so every statement can be weighted with the same scale but its not.  This is the problem with your stance.  Things are not equal.  POC are not represented on the same scale as white people and definitely as lead roles.  Trying to make a black and white case on this point seems foolish when the playing field isn't level.

You'll beat the same point trying to say same thing is or isn't racism 'depending on the context' when it isn't.

So if you want to call one racism, you have to call the other. 



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."