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Forums - Politics - The US Politics |OT|

Mr_No on 31 May 2020
Hiku said:
KiigelHeart said:

You don't think there's anything wrong with blocking a way of an emergency vehicle? How do you know those cops aren't responding to a call of someone's life being in danger? It's a riot after all.. forcing a way through the crowd would be ok, should be done at lower speed though.

I agree with the rest of your post but it's nothing new some US cops are too aggressive or undertrained.

Being on duty as a cop during and aggressive protest is extremely eye-opening too btw hehe.

I do.
But I think it's absolutely inexcusable to accelerate into a crowd the way the above car did, no matter where they were heading.
The bottom car handled it better by slowly pushing against people so no one would get injured or run over.

And it's not just 'some' cops. This among hundreds of other clips shows that it's far far too many.

Being an on duty cop vs peaceful protesters is what's eye opening.

Or just walking home from the grocery store, standing on your front porch, reporting the news, etc.

I don't care how much heat I get for this, but this goes to show that any low IQ, backward-thinking ignorant can become a cop as long as they "pass" a psych evaluation and is deemed fit enough. They just think that just because they're all abusing en masse, that they're not gonna be accountable for it.

"Rational thinking? Common sense? What's that left mumbo jumbo? Quadratic equations? What am I gonna use that for? I just wanna shoot bad guys!"



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Immersiveunreality on 31 May 2020
tsogud said:
Immersiveunreality said:

None here seems to be against protests but violence against innocents is always bad no matter how you look at it imo.

These incidents does not mitigate the reason why protests happen and it is only a few of them that go too far so no need to bundle all those protesters together like they're all fine with such things happening,if you care about the protest you would care about the majority beings ashamed because some had to act on their personal blind hate.

I have been on some protest and it is like 95 percent full with people that mean well and then you got a small minority that is out for blood and brings weapons with them,anything they do not like personally they like to destroy even if it has nothing to do with the cause.One protest i was with had all the foreigners shops looted and destroyed,civilians cars burned down,a female policeofficers pulled from her bike and seriously beaten,fireworks thrown into peoples homes etc... and that all for that supposedly good cause those perpetrators did not give two shits about but they did really get a kick from that violence.

@bolded: Where in my posts did I say or even hint at that??? Every single protest was nonviolent until police escalated the situation.

And there are numerous accounts and videos of white nationalists and undercover cops vandalizing shops and causing mayhem to muddy the waters and the protesters tried to stop them. These protests are completely valid and were nonviolent until agitators stirred things up.

THE POLICE NEED TO STOP KILLING BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE. IT'S NON-NEGOTIABLE!

ALL ACTS Of VIOLENCE ARE DAMN SHAMEFULL BEING ESCALATED OR NOT,THERE IS NO GOOD EXCUSE.

Destroying property of others and hurting unrelated people will not stop the police from killing black and brown people,those people aren't yours and no ones sacrifices to take no matter the cause.



jason1637 on 31 May 2020
Pemalite said:
What is wrong with the USA? I mean seriously.

What the officer did to that African American, killing him, crossed a disgusting line.

But to protest in such an extremist way, which has resulted in life and property severely damaged and/or lost is also a disgusting line that is crossed.

Two wrongs do not make a right, this is basic kindergarten shit.

I think the issue is... Is that it seems cool to "rally against authority" and many people see all police as being the same kinds of people, which is far from reality, you have some idiots, sure, like in any service, but at the end of the day... We are all people, we all bleed the same colour of blood and need to be respected.

The USA has lost sight of that entirely. - Wasn't Trump going to make America Great again? Currently hundreds of thousands are dying by Corona, there is violence erupting in the streets, economy is about to go into recession, media's legitimacy is at an all time low, constant mud flinging between left and right, the wall hasn't been built... List goes on.
It's honestly a joke at this point.

I feel for all of those affected by the current running circumstances in the USA and I genuinely hope things improve sooner rather than later.

Violent protests is how America got its footing. Boston tea party,  and massacre. Considering that these events are consistently being refereed to as great acts of protest in the American education system its not surprising that were seeing similar acts now.



Immersiveunreality on 31 May 2020

There is a call out for a peacefull black lives matters protest in Belgium at Brussels tomorrow,i guess that is some sort of reaction on the protests in the US.



JRPGfan on 31 May 2020
Pemalite said:
What is wrong with the USA? I mean seriously.

What the officer did to that African American, killing him, crossed a disgusting line.

But to protest in such an extremist way, which has resulted in life and property severely damaged and/or lost is also a disgusting line that is crossed.

Two wrongs do not make a right, this is basic kindergarten shit.

I think the issue is... Is that it seems cool to "rally against authority" and many people see all police as being the same kinds of people, which is far from reality, you have some idiots, sure, like in any service, but at the end of the day... We are all people, we all bleed the same colour of blood and need to be respected.

The USA has lost sight of that entirely. - Wasn't Trump going to make America Great again? Currently hundreds of thousands are dying by Corona, there is violence erupting in the streets, economy is about to go into recession, media's legitimacy is at an all time low, constant mud flinging between left and right, the wall hasn't been built... List goes on.
It's honestly a joke at this point.

I feel for all of those affected by the current running circumstances in the USA and I genuinely hope things improve sooner rather than later.

US is handling the pandemic worse than most ontop of that (economically, job losses, deaths & overall spread).
Trump's make america great again, is now like bad joke.
Things just got worse, after he took over (but in fairness it isnt easy to deal with a pandemic).

I think many's view of america has changed over time.
When I was a kid, I had this romantic view of the USA.
It was a economic powerhouse, and it was "the land of the free" a place were dreams could come true.
(maybe this is just movieis & hollywood back then.... and internet & social media shattered my illusions?)

However thats not the america of today.
They have mass shootings so damn often, school shootings, something like 80 million without proper health ensurance, people that get cancer/illnesses and go broke (hospital bills), they have poorly maintained water/sewage sytems (theres places were water isnt drinkable), electric systems. Theres massive inequality.
Also the "american dream" is best lived out in europe (easier to get education, easier to start a bussiness ect).

Economic mobility is low in the US.  If your parents are poor, chances are (high) you will be too.

Last edited by JRPGfan - on 31 May 2020

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sundin13 on 31 May 2020
KLAMarine said:

"See this riot? Minnesota fucking deserves it and everything else it gets."

>How's this for an idea: instead of Minnesota getting "what it fucking deserves", we just put the officer or officers involved in Floyd's death on trial? Work to get to the bottom of what happened and implement appropriate measures so that it doesn't happen again? Did we try that or did we automatically jump to the destroy everything "solution"?

Why does the local supermarket have to be ransacked resulting in more violence and more injuries and people losing their employment? The local mom and pop shop had nothing to do with Floyd's death but some sort of "solution" involves knocking its windows in because that'll stop police brutality somehow.

This seems incredibly ignorant to me.

You are saying "why don't we just implement appropriate measures so that it doesn't happen again", but the people don't have that power. "We" have been demanding these changes for decades. The reason these protests are happening is because the system has failed to implement the necessary solutions. After decades of saying "This needs to change", you can't just ask the people who have been demanding change for generations "lol why not just change?". What the fuck do you think we've been advocating for?

Ka-pi96 said:
tsogud said:

Black Lives Matter. These protests are valid. And if you disagree then you're part of the problem. We're done with the bs.

The opposite, actually. From what I've seen at least 2 people have been killed so far. If you're for these riots then you're pro-murder. That makes you the problem! To "protest" a murder by murdering 2 more people is so idiotic and hypocritical that's it completely ridiculous that anybody could possibly think it's "just". It's not. Killing more people isn't how you respond to somebody being killed.

They aren't protesting a murder, they are protesting the system which led to this, and many other murders and injustices.

Ka-pi96 said:

Yeah, there have been far too many times that people who had no right being cops abused their position to hurt or kill people. The individuals responsible should be dealt with through the justice system, but the cops that had nothing to do with it? Don't assume they're racist/bad just because they're cops.

The "them" aren't racists though. Not every cop is racist, some of them yes and that is a problem, but not all of them. Besides, even if every single cop were a racist (which is almost certainly not the case) innocent people are suffering because of these riots. That is not justifiable in any way.

Again, police brutality isn't a matter of bad individuals, it is a matter of a broken system. I agree that saying "every single cop is a racist" is fallacious, however, I would argue that the policing system is fundamentally flawed in ways which propagate and often encourage mistreatment and abuse. We cannot look at police brutality as if it were an issue solely with the individual. It is far too prevalent and wide-spread for that.

That is why only having reactionary policies in place, where an individual is punished when they get caught on film murdering someone isn't enough. It is like bailing a sinking boat with a shot glass. This shit isn't going to stop until we fix the system. We have to make no individual judgements about every cop in order to maintain that the system is broken.

EnricoPallazzo said:


Only thing they should do is maybe go undercover and arrest the white antifa agitators in the middle of the crowd.

Why assume that it is just white antifa agitators and not white supremacist agitators, as has already been confirmed in Minnesota?

https://www.courthousenews.com/minnesota-officials-link-arrested-looters-to-white-supremacist-groups/



KLAMarine on 31 May 2020

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiSm0Nuqomg

Gotta get my hands on body camera video.



Otter on 31 May 2020

I highly recommend anyone who thinks they're just protesting one killing watch 13th on Netflix

https://www.netflix.com/de-en/title/80091741

There really is a pattern here and there's been a consistent right side of history, it doesn't seem like that will change with these current events. Of course individual breaks outs of violence or looting are bad, but it shouldn't detrack from the bigger picture and its going to happen regardless of whether we waggle our fingers or not. The main thing is to stand in solidarity with protestors who are trying to change a corrupt system.

Last edited by Otter - on 31 May 2020

KLAMarine on 31 May 2020
sundin13 said:
KLAMarine said:

"See this riot? Minnesota fucking deserves it and everything else it gets."

>How's this for an idea: instead of Minnesota getting "what it fucking deserves", we just put the officer or officers involved in Floyd's death on trial? Work to get to the bottom of what happened and implement appropriate measures so that it doesn't happen again? Did we try that or did we automatically jump to the destroy everything "solution"?

Why does the local supermarket have to be ransacked resulting in more violence and more injuries and people losing their employment? The local mom and pop shop had nothing to do with Floyd's death but some sort of "solution" involves knocking its windows in because that'll stop police brutality somehow.

This seems incredibly ignorant to me.

You are saying "why don't we just implement appropriate measures so that it doesn't happen again", but the people don't have that power. "We" have been demanding these changes for decades. The reason these protests are happening is because the system has failed to implement the necessary solutions. After decades of saying "This needs to change", you can't just ask the people who have been demanding change for generations "lol why not just change?". What the fuck do you think we've been advocating for?

Ka-pi96 said:

The opposite, actually. From what I've seen at least 2 people have been killed so far. If you're for these riots then you're pro-murder. That makes you the problem! To "protest" a murder by murdering 2 more people is so idiotic and hypocritical that's it completely ridiculous that anybody could possibly think it's "just". It's not. Killing more people isn't how you respond to somebody being killed.

They aren't protesting a murder, they are protesting the system which led to this, and many other murders and injustices.

Ka-pi96 said:

Yeah, there have been far too many times that people who had no right being cops abused their position to hurt or kill people. The individuals responsible should be dealt with through the justice system, but the cops that had nothing to do with it? Don't assume they're racist/bad just because they're cops.

The "them" aren't racists though. Not every cop is racist, some of them yes and that is a problem, but not all of them. Besides, even if every single cop were a racist (which is almost certainly not the case) innocent people are suffering because of these riots. That is not justifiable in any way.

Again, police brutality isn't a matter of bad individuals, it is a matter of a broken system. I agree that saying "every single cop is a racist" is fallacious, however, I would argue that the policing system is fundamentally flawed in ways which propagate and often encourage mistreatment and abuse. We cannot look at police brutality as if it were an issue solely with the individual. It is far too prevalent and wide-spread for that.

That is why only having reactionary policies in place, where an individual is punished when they get caught on film murdering someone isn't enough. It is like bailing a sinking boat with a shot glass. This shit isn't going to stop until we fix the system. We have to make no individual judgements about every cop in order to maintain that the system is broken.

EnricoPallazzo said:


Only thing they should do is maybe go undercover and arrest the white antifa agitators in the middle of the crowd.

Why assume that it is just white antifa agitators and not white supremacist agitators, as has already been confirmed in Minnesota?

https://www.courthousenews.com/minnesota-officials-link-arrested-looters-to-white-supremacist-groups/

"You are saying "why don't we just implement appropriate measures so that it doesn't happen again", but the people don't have that power."

>Sure they do. They're voters.

""We" have been demanding these changes for decades. The reason these protests are happening is because the system has failed to implement the necessary solutions. After decades of saying "This needs to change", you can't just ask the people who have been demanding change for generations "lol why not just change?". What the fuck do you think we've been advocating for?"

>So what are the necessary solutions?



sundin13 on 31 May 2020
KLAMarine said:

"You are saying "why don't we just implement appropriate measures so that it doesn't happen again", but the people don't have that power."

>Sure they do. They're voters.

""We" have been demanding these changes for decades. The reason these protests are happening is because the system has failed to implement the necessary solutions. After decades of saying "This needs to change", you can't just ask the people who have been demanding change for generations "lol why not just change?". What the fuck do you think we've been advocating for?"

>So what are the necessary solutions?

Who do they vote for when nothing ever changes? This isn't a matter of just political parties. While things certainly are better in some areas, there are very few candidates, even in the more progressive areas of the country, who would have both the platform and the power to address this. But even if they did, this affects minority groups much more than it affects your average voters. There often isn't enough voting power to actually get the necessary change accomplished even if it was on the ballot.

But I feel this is all a fairly moot point, because "not being murdered" isn't something we should have to vote on. Why the fuck should we have to vote in order to make sure the police system isn't abusing it's power? This isn't about voting. While we should certainly show up and support candidates who support progress, we shouldn't sit back and say "oh well, maybe next time" when we don't get it. These demands go beyond the voting booth as soon as people start being killed by the government's abuse of power.

As for the necessary solutions, largely the entire system has to change, but first, I don't think it is the responsibility of those being murdered to write the laws which would prevent them from being murdered. The job of the people in this case, is to identify a problem. It is the job of the government to present the solution. The people will then tell you if that solution is enough.

That said, I think massive changes need to occur at all levels to change the relationship between the police and the people, and change the relationship between the people and those found guilty/accused of crimes. While this only addresses one small piece of a huge problem, I think this is a good start:

https://www.joincampaignzero.org/solutions#solutionsoverview