| KLAMarine said: I still need to see what sort of verbal interaction occurred between the gunmen and Arbery. Did the gunmen inform Arbery that they were calling the police and ask him to stop for police? |
That was not stated at any point according to the original police report.
I still need to see what sort of verbal interaction occurred between the gunmen and Arbery. Did the gunmen inform Arbery that they were calling the police and ask him to stop for police?
Define 'systemic racism'... |
Oh. You're calling the police? That's cool. I'll put my trust in you, guys chasing me down with a truck and pointing guns at me. I'm sure you're on the up and up, and I'm very comfortable placing my life in your hands.
Machiavellian said:
Explain to me why that would make a difference. Why would Arbery have any reason to believe armed people trying to get him to stop without the police actually being there. It really do not matter what they said to him, their careless actions caused them to kill an innocent man. |
sundin13 said:
That was not stated at any point according to the original police report. |
SpokenTruth said:
Rep. Bill Johnson needs a reality check. If it is the church's responsibility, as he claimed, and not the government to feed the poor, clothe the widow, and take care of the orphan, then they are doing a piss poor job of it.
1). Irrelevant. And I've already proven why. They had no legal grounds for performing a citizens arrest. Further, informing Arbery they were calling the police doesn't change the circumstances nor does it warrant the use of a firearm ex postfacto of the commission of a felony (of which no felony was committed). 2). You want this defined for you again? Because I'm pretty damn sure this has been defined for you before. It is the laws, policies, institutions, practices and social norms that together, either intentionally or unintentionally, have enabled and continue to perpetuate racial inequality. |
JWeinCom said:
Oh. You're calling the police? That's cool. I'll put my trust in you, guys chasing me down with a truck and pointing guns at me. I'm sure you're on the up and up, and I'm very comfortable placing my life in your hands. |
What I'm trying to assess here is the state of mind of the people involved. When Arbery tried for the gun, did he do so out of desperation because the gunmen gave him reason to believe they meant to harm him? Or was he just feeling ballsy and decided to yolo it?
Whether there was legal justification for the citizen's arrest, I'll leave that up to overpaid lawyers to sort out. I just want to know if we have recordings of words exchanged between Arbery and the gunmen? I feel words exchanged would help shine light on their state of mind.
"informing Arbery they were calling the police doesn't change the circumstances nor does it warrant the use of a firearm ex postfacto of the commission of a felony (of which no felony was committed)."
You are correct that informing someone that police have been called does not warrant use of a firearm. The fact that Arbery tried to take the gun may be a different story however: if at any point someone were to lunge for my gun, I might be tempted to use the gun in the middle of a struggle to stop my disarming and potentially having the gun used on me.
| KLAMarine said:
You are correct that informing someone that police have been called does not warrant use of a firearm. The fact that Arbery tried to take the gun may be a different story however: if at any point someone were to lunge for my gun, I might be tempted to use the gun in the middle of a struggle to stop my disarming and potentially having the gun used on me. |
While specific laws vary between states, most that I am familiar with don't give an aggressor a right to self defense. Basically, because the actor put the victim in a situation where he could legally claim self-defense, the actor first has to remove himself from the altercation before regaining a right to self defense.
If you are just standing around and someone lunges for your gun, you are not considered an aggressor. On the other hand, if you and several friends chase someone down in a truck and jump out with firearms, you have become the aggressor, and you have lost your right to self-defense.
If you are a gun owner, this is very important to know so you don't put yourself in a situation where you get charged with murder.
KLAMarine said:
What I'm trying to assess here is the state of mind of the people involved. When Arbery tried for the gun, did he do so out of desperation because the gunmen gave him reason to believe they meant to harm him? Or was he just feeling ballsy and decided to yolo it? Whether there was legal justification for the citizen's arrest, I'll leave that up to overpaid lawyers to sort out. I just want to know if we have recordings of words exchanged between Arbery and the gunmen? I feel words exchanged would help shine light on their state of mind. "informing Arbery they were calling the police doesn't change the circumstances nor does it warrant the use of a firearm ex postfacto of the commission of a felony (of which no felony was committed)." You are correct that informing someone that police have been called does not warrant use of a firearm. The fact that Arbery tried to take the gun may be a different story however: if at any point someone were to lunge for my gun, I might be tempted to use the gun in the middle of a struggle to stop my disarming and potentially having the gun used on me. |
I actually have studied criminal law and can explain why legally Arbery's state of mind doesn't matter, but lets ignore that, and just go based on common sense.
If you are an innocent person going about your business and two people approach you with guns drawn and say they're arresting you, do you have to cooperate with them? Would it be unreasonable for a person in this situation to feel threatened and attempt to defend themselves or if they do should they be legally shootable?
Honest question: Can anyone actually justify Trump's childish, narcissistic, immature behaviour?
https://www.cracked.com/article_27711_donald-trump-scared-reporters.html
I know Cracked is a comedy website, but John Oliver is also a comedian and his stuff is pretty poignant, as was Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert. anywho, this is just a small sampling of the shitty, bratty, stupid things Trump does. Like, none of his behaviours exhibit ANY qualifications to be in the oval office. Nothing about his personality screams 'leader' or 'maturity' or 'adult'.
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| KLAMarine said: What I'm trying to assess here is the state of mind of the people involved. When Arbery tried for the gun, did he do so out of desperation because the gunmen gave him reason to believe they meant to harm him? Or was he just feeling ballsy and decided to yolo it? Whether there was legal justification for the citizen's arrest, I'll leave that up to overpaid lawyers to sort out. I just want to know if we have recordings of words exchanged between Arbery and the gunmen? I feel words exchanged would help shine light on their state of mind. "informing Arbery they were calling the police doesn't change the circumstances nor does it warrant the use of a firearm ex postfacto of the commission of a felony (of which no felony was committed)." You are correct that informing someone that police have been called does not warrant use of a firearm. The fact that Arbery tried to take the gun may be a different story however: if at any point someone were to lunge for my gun, I might be tempted to use the gun in the middle of a struggle to stop my disarming and potentially having the gun used on me. |
Still does not matter. In order for Arbery to fight for control of the gun, the gunman has to get out of the truck with the gun. After that point, the person with the gun is making the intent to force a situation he has no authority to enforce. Also at this point, Arbery has the right to fight for his life as armed people no matter what they say has no bearing on the situation. A kidnapper can say whatever they want to get you into their ride. There words mean nothing since they are not the police and have no authority. It doesn't matter what the gunmen were thinking. There careless actions which they took in their own hands without any authority caused them to kill someone.
SpokenTruth said:
Since is the still the foci of the issue for you, here is the only known verbal exchange.
|
Have you the recording of this? I wish to listen to it.
KLAMarine said:
Have you the recording of this? I wish to listen to it. |
You've seen the only available video.
sundin13 said:
You've seen the only available video. |
Well then that's all I really have to go on and in that video, Arbery is shown running up to the rear of what looks to be a parked vehicle, not the vehicle chasing him...
We'll see what further investigation uncovers...
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