tsogud said:
Machiavellian said:
You really have to make a jump to see anything within my post that says your opinion is less than mine. I never made any statement or alluded to that your opinion is less than mind but instead just stated my opinion. The reason I stated as a husband and father is because my perspective is also measured by my experience. Meaning I am not coming into my opinion from out of the blue but instead from experiences I have had during my life. From 3 friends who were wrongly accused to having a daughter which I have had this conversation with and a wife who I value her perspective and viewpoint. I neither allude that my opinion is right but instead state it's how I view the situation and my stance.
As to your last point, you only seem to care about the victim without considering the defendant. It doesn't matter if the situation is hard because no person should go to jail if not guilty. Would your perspective be the same if you were wrongly accused and find yourself in jail because of stats. No matter how you paint this, there are 2 parties within this situation and both not one have a right to be considered innocent until proven guilty. The only thing that stops a person from coming forward is fear and just like anything in this world expecting the playing field to be totally fair isn't going to happen. To get those people off the street and in prison, the person must conqueror their fear or whatever is holding them back and come forward not wait until 27 years later where its hard to determine if anything happen.
Is Reade facing issues with Biden supporters, you bet. Is Biden facing people automatically believing he raped her without anything to go on, you bet. Its messy but then again it took Reade 27 years to come forward and only when Biden is going for president when she had plenty of time to do it. As I stated, its a lesson for all women to not sit on something like this and come out decades later hoping to be believed without taking the person to court. The responsibility was on Reade 27 years ago and putting so much time between coming out muddies the whole situation.
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OMFGGGG this is why I just wanted to drop the conversation with you. Because you just don't get what I'm saying. You're literally mansplaining to me about situations most women like ME know a lot more about, the power dynamics and the complications that come into play. The reason I said that your opinion is no more valid than mine is because it does not matter that your SO happens to be a women and that your offspring happens to be a girl. Unless you PERSONALLY have experience being a women in this situation that bit of info you just gave me is useless and unnecessary to the convo at hand. You really don't have any personal experience with this topic, either by actually being a rape victim or a falsely accused abuser.
Reade came forward to multiple people THE WEEK it happened. It is so far removed from reality to blame all women and completely put the onus on them to come out and press charges in a timely manner to satiate men like yourself. It completely ignores the trauma they have to deal with and all the complications they have to go through. That last paragraph just revealed that you don't actually believe women at the best of times or even care enough to realize that it's an incredibly complex situation for those that have been abused. It's completely patronizing and borderline sexist; that's not the hill you'd want to die on.
Instead of doing mental gymnastics and convincing yourself that you're "one of the good ones" because you have a wife and daughter, and that gives you the right and experience to patronize all women. You can just say you don't believe victims (in this case Tara) and move on. That would've been a more respectable stance.
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First you ignored what I stated. You go on about some mansplaining BS to dismiss what I said was my experience and opinion. If anything it seems you are the one missing the point. I do not give my opinion to change yours, I just totally disagree with your opinion and gave my reason. I do not need to mainsplaining or whatever that is suppose to mean.
Now who is it telling me I need to be a woman to understand how they feel. It has nothing to do with being a woman, instead it has everything to do with 2 people lives. Why I have to be a woman to understand rape as if a man cannot be raped as well seems very silly to me. You act as if this only applies to woman but there are men raped every day who never come out because of the shame of it. The feeling of shame on something like rape isn't just isolated to women and it definitely isn't something they only experience.
Also your points continue to make me wonder if you are looking at the argument correctly. My stance isn't to convince myself I am "one of the good ones" BS. What does that even mean. So I am suppose to be patronizing all women because I do not instantly believe them without having as much info on the situation as possible. Seriously, you are throwing out some BS of your own. Mansplaining, patronizing, instead of just arguing the points.
What is your experience with the subject besides just an opinion, I would like to hear it. I can tell you I have talked to both men and woman in my time who were raped, have you. As I have also stated, I know 3 people wrongly accused and how that affected their lives. I have talked about this subject with my wife and child because my opinion doesn't live in a vacuum. Hell, I also had this conversation with my older son before he went to college. What experience do you come with on the topic besides, we must all believe woman just because.
Anyway, my stance is that waiting to come forward hurts your chance to be believe and allows a person to go free without any effort to make them pay. My stance is that victims need to come forward as soon as possible while things can still make a difference. The longer the person waits the less chance they can get a conviction and we have what we see today with not only Reade but any victim who waits decades to come forward.
For some silly reason, you keep making this about believing in a woman just because they make an accusation. I am saying we need more than just believing in anyone no matter what it is just because they make an accusation. The defendant has just as much rights to not be considered guilty until proven. SO no, I do not just believe someone just because they make an accusation until I can get all the information available and make an informed opinion. I already been on that side of the fence.
Edited: Let me give you some context on one of my experience. One of the people I know that was wrongly accused was a father by his daughter. Yes this man daughter stated he raped her and his daughter happens to be a friend of mine. So yes, I instantly believed her, shunned her father who I was also close to. The case went to court and we find out that not only did he not rape her but she made it up because he was a minister and very strict. She wanted to go back to her mother because he had full custody. After he was acquitted, people still believed he did it. It ruined his business, his career and his relationship with his friends and it tore him apart. This left a mark on me because I never gave him a chance and when he was at his lowest looking for support from him friends he found nothing.
Last edited by Machiavellian - on 07 May 2020
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