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Forums - Politics Discussion - Official 2020 US Election: Democratic Party Discussion

Machiavellian said:
Rab said:

It's supporting evidence corroborating what she and others have witness to, dancing around this shows your disingenuous with this case   

Looks like Biden is covering up because he has something to hide with regards to the University records and it Looks like you have made your mind up, you deserve each other 

Well, I am going to have to disagree since there is no details.  Not sure how this corroborate anything without any details of the incident that she is reporting.  She says rape, this says sexual harassment which is a very broad term what that covers.  Sexual harassment isn't rape.  Also there is no detail of what the harassment was.  If there were details of what it was then it would corroborate what she is saying today.  Instead what you are saying is that we must assume the 2 are the same withing nothing to go on as to who, what, where when and how.  As a juror, how the hell are you going to take anything from this article and tie it to Biden.  I am not looking at the situation whether I like Biden or not.  It doesn't matter if it Biden, Trump or my next door neighbor.  I am looking at the situation as if I was a juror and had to make a decision on someone life and this was the evidence to the case I was presented.  That would be the same as the Phone call to Howard Stern.  No details of anything, No, who, what, where or how but we are to make the leap that the 2 are the same.  Hell it could be the janitor for all we know.  

This is where your logic is flawed, as the agenda seems to be you which have made your decision, I am not arguing this subject because I care about Biden but instead how we got here.  I have not made up my mind one way or the other concerning who is telling the truth in this matter what I am saying currently right now, the information we have doesn't come close to helping the accuser.  She wait 27 years and because of that we get vague details of something but nothing hard to go by.  It would have been good if she consulted a lawyer during that time.  Either way, I hope she has something more concrete than this or it will go away just like the Trump allegations.

It's one peice of corroborating evidence adding weight to what she has described happened so long ago when she was much younger in a different legal/cultural environment than today

And fact Biden refuses to allow all University records to be shown of T. Reade speaks to the instinct of suspicion in all of us (unless your being disingenuous of course).. all of us think if you don't have anything to hide then why hide it, it's quite amazing that it's Biden himself that's allowed to stop this line of inquiry, the very person that the accusation are made against.. weird justice       



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Rab said:
Machiavellian said:

Well, I am going to have to disagree since there is no details.  Not sure how this corroborate anything without any details of the incident that she is reporting.  She says rape, this says sexual harassment which is a very broad term what that covers.  Sexual harassment isn't rape.  Also there is no detail of what the harassment was.  If there were details of what it was then it would corroborate what she is saying today.  Instead what you are saying is that we must assume the 2 are the same withing nothing to go on as to who, what, where when and how.  As a juror, how the hell are you going to take anything from this article and tie it to Biden.  I am not looking at the situation whether I like Biden or not.  It doesn't matter if it Biden, Trump or my next door neighbor.  I am looking at the situation as if I was a juror and had to make a decision on someone life and this was the evidence to the case I was presented.  That would be the same as the Phone call to Howard Stern.  No details of anything, No, who, what, where or how but we are to make the leap that the 2 are the same.  Hell it could be the janitor for all we know.  

This is where your logic is flawed, as the agenda seems to be you which have made your decision, I am not arguing this subject because I care about Biden but instead how we got here.  I have not made up my mind one way or the other concerning who is telling the truth in this matter what I am saying currently right now, the information we have doesn't come close to helping the accuser.  She wait 27 years and because of that we get vague details of something but nothing hard to go by.  It would have been good if she consulted a lawyer during that time.  Either way, I hope she has something more concrete than this or it will go away just like the Trump allegations.

It's one peice of corroborating evidence adding weight to what she has described happened so long ago when she was much younger in a different legal/cultural environment than today

And fact Biden refuses to allow all University records to be shown of T. Reade speaks to the instinct of suspicion in all of us (unless your being disingenuous of course).. all of us think if you don't have anything to hide then why hide it, it's quite amazing that it's Biden himself that's allowed to stop this line of inquiry, the very person that the accusation are made against.. weird justice       

You do know the records you are talking about are the records that Biden gave to the University.  Why you believe he would keep any information of sexual harassment linking him in those records when he had it set for them to be released publicly once he leaves office seems crazy.  Even Fox news reported that he combed through those records before going for President.  The reason he can stop those records from being release is because they are his files.  Now if Reade wants to get to those files she can take him to court but the statues probably already gone for that so we are still here with nothing.

Now Biden reason for not releasing those records as he stated he has a lot of speeches and other documents that could be used out of context.  He is not wrong in this viewpoint as I already saw an ad from the President taking one of his speeches on the Senate floor and only using a portion of it on social security.  

Maybe Biden will have to release those files but the waiting game belongs to Biden as Reade will have to have something more concrete to move the needle then what was presented so far.  I go back to the call to Howard Stern where they say her mother called in and it really muddies the water more than anything else.  If someone sexually assaulted, raped or even harassment, why would you not come forward out of respect for that person.  Something not adding up.



Machiavellian said:
Rab said:

It's one peice of corroborating evidence adding weight to what she has described happened so long ago when she was much younger in a different legal/cultural environment than today

And fact Biden refuses to allow all University records to be shown of T. Reade speaks to the instinct of suspicion in all of us (unless your being disingenuous of course).. all of us think if you don't have anything to hide then why hide it, it's quite amazing that it's Biden himself that's allowed to stop this line of inquiry, the very person that the accusation are made against.. weird justice       

You do know the records you are talking about are the records that Biden gave to the University.  Why you believe he would keep any information of sexual harassment linking him in those records when he had it set for them to be released publicly once he leaves office seems crazy.  Even Fox news reported that he combed through those records before going for President.  The reason he can stop those records from being release is because they are his files.  Now if Reade wants to get to those files she can take him to court but the statues probably already gone for that so we are still here with nothing.

Now Biden reason for not releasing those records as he stated he has a lot of speeches and other documents that could be used out of context.  He is not wrong in this viewpoint as I already saw an ad from the President taking one of his speeches on the Senate floor and only using a portion of it on social security.  

Maybe Biden will have to release those files but the waiting game belongs to Biden as Reade will have to have something more concrete to move the needle then what was presented so far.  I go back to the call to Howard Stern where they say her mother called in and it really muddies the water more than anything else.  If someone sexually assaulted, raped or even harassment, why would you not come forward out of respect for that person.  Something not adding up.

The Records aren't just from Biden obviously, it's from anyone at the time that mentions Biden and T. Reade. Any search for T. Reade's records can be done without releasing any other information except what pertains to her, it's an excuse from Biden to get the support from people like yourself to have a talking point to cloud and cover up

T. Reade has asked for these records about herself to be released as she believes its gives even more support to her accusations, let her have these records and see what it is in a open transparent way, not cover it up like Biden has done which for anyone is suspicious behaviour     



It's funny how certain people won't believe a woman because of the supposed consequences that could be brought onto the man. But will believe the man without even considering what the consequences are for the woman... Some would call that sexist.



 

Rab said:
Machiavellian said:

You do know the records you are talking about are the records that Biden gave to the University.  Why you believe he would keep any information of sexual harassment linking him in those records when he had it set for them to be released publicly once he leaves office seems crazy.  Even Fox news reported that he combed through those records before going for President.  The reason he can stop those records from being release is because they are his files.  Now if Reade wants to get to those files she can take him to court but the statues probably already gone for that so we are still here with nothing.

Now Biden reason for not releasing those records as he stated he has a lot of speeches and other documents that could be used out of context.  He is not wrong in this viewpoint as I already saw an ad from the President taking one of his speeches on the Senate floor and only using a portion of it on social security.  

Maybe Biden will have to release those files but the waiting game belongs to Biden as Reade will have to have something more concrete to move the needle then what was presented so far.  I go back to the call to Howard Stern where they say her mother called in and it really muddies the water more than anything else.  If someone sexually assaulted, raped or even harassment, why would you not come forward out of respect for that person.  Something not adding up.

The Records aren't just from Biden obviously, it's from anyone at the time that mentions Biden and T. Reade. Any search for T. Reade's records can be done without releasing any other information except what pertains to her, it's an excuse from Biden to get the support from people like yourself to have a talking point to cloud and cover up

T. Reade has asked for these records about herself to be released as she believes its gives even more support to her accusations, let her have these records and see what it is in a open transparent way, not cover it up like Biden has done which for anyone is suspicious behaviour     

How did you come to this conclusion.  I read every article on the subject and they are all records from Biden.  Can you show me an article that states these records include anything he did not give to the university because right now it seems you are making things up.  Even so, who would be the people who look through the files.  If you go by Fox news, everyone at the University is compromised. Also Reade herself stated she only mentioned that Biden made her uncomfortable during that time when she reported the incident.  Uncomfortable is a long way from rape and it appears that her story has changed which also muddies the water as this article talks about.

https://www.vox.com/2020/5/7/21248713/tara-reade-joe-biden-sexual-assault-accusation

As I stated before, rape is a serious crime and the burden of proof is hard no matter what but when you wait 27 years and change your story a few times, even if the incident occurred, it makes proving it that much harder.

Last edited by Machiavellian - on 13 May 2020

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Machiavellian said:
Rab said:

The Records aren't just from Biden obviously, it's from anyone at the time that mentions Biden and T. Reade. Any search for T. Reade's records can be done without releasing any other information except what pertains to her, it's an excuse from Biden to get the support from people like yourself to have a talking point to cloud and cover up

T. Reade has asked for these records about herself to be released as she believes its gives even more support to her accusations, let her have these records and see what it is in a open transparent way, not cover it up like Biden has done which for anyone is suspicious behaviour     

How did you come to this conclusion.  I read every article on the subject and they are all records from Biden.  Can you show me an article that states these records include anything he did not give to the university because right now it seems you are making things up.  Even so, who would be the people who look through the files.  If you go by Fox news, everyone at the University is compromised. Also Reade herself stated she only mentioned that Biden made her uncomfortable during that time when she reported the incident.  Uncomfortable is a long way from rape and it appears that her story has changed which also muddies the water as this article talks about.

https://www.vox.com/2020/5/7/21248713/tara-reade-joe-biden-sexual-assault-accusation

As I stated before, rape is a serious crime and the burden of proof is hard no matter what but when you wait 27 years and change your story a few times, even if the incident occurred, it makes proving it that much harder.

They are records of Biden not put together by Biden, any one of Biden's staff and others can contribute to those records

Biden not allowing any reference to T. Reade in those records to be read out is a bad look and a coverup, you and others arguing the same Biden talking points are making it easy for him to get away with this

Biden is no more special than T. Read as a person and she deserves every chance to prove her point as it is a very serious matter having potentially the next president being a rapist and letting a potential victim of rape not being able to seek justice 

Every door should be wide open, and a transparent investigation carried out   



Edit - terrible post which I should have never made

Last edited by sethnintendo - on 18 May 2020

Rab said:
Machiavellian said:

How did you come to this conclusion.  I read every article on the subject and they are all records from Biden.  Can you show me an article that states these records include anything he did not give to the university because right now it seems you are making things up.  Even so, who would be the people who look through the files.  If you go by Fox news, everyone at the University is compromised. Also Reade herself stated she only mentioned that Biden made her uncomfortable during that time when she reported the incident.  Uncomfortable is a long way from rape and it appears that her story has changed which also muddies the water as this article talks about.

https://www.vox.com/2020/5/7/21248713/tara-reade-joe-biden-sexual-assault-accusation

As I stated before, rape is a serious crime and the burden of proof is hard no matter what but when you wait 27 years and change your story a few times, even if the incident occurred, it makes proving it that much harder.

They are records of Biden not put together by Biden, any one of Biden's staff and others can contribute to those records

Biden not allowing any reference to T. Reade in those records to be read out is a bad look and a coverup, you and others arguing the same Biden talking points are making it easy for him to get away with this

Biden is no more special than T. Read as a person and she deserves every chance to prove her point as it is a very serious matter having potentially the next president being a rapist and letting a potential victim of rape not being able to seek justice 

Every door should be wide open, and a transparent investigation carried out   

You really must be missing the point.  All the records were submitted by Biden.  He had access to go over all the records and do what he wanted with them.  No matter what source you look up, they all state these records were submitted by Biden himself.  Also its not Biden that not allowing any access to the records, its the University but if Reade wants the records she can force the situation by taking it to court. 

The crazy thing is, not sure why you believe he would keep any personal employee records or why their would be any their with complaints when the people who was there at the time she reported the incident stated she did no such thing.  Not only that those people would be the ones to record the incident which by their statements probably wouldn't do it.

Now we are getting somewhere, I agree that Reade should get every chance to present her case. That is why I continue to state she should take it to court.  Instead of playing this he said she said, BS we need for her to take it to court so everything can get subpoenaed.  Get people on the stand and let them put their career on the line if they lie.  Nothing really short of this will move the needle and as I stated, we get a full story unlike the one Reade stated in the beginning then changed to Rape.  Things get muddied when you change your story and its get even worst when the only thing you have official at the time is that the person made you uncomfortable.  Getting a rape conviction is not what I am seeking.  I want all the evidence to be in one place with both sides of the story and all records release on both sides.  Once we get some serious movement in that direction its still a case of he said she said with nothing concrete to form any opinion.

Last edited by Machiavellian - on 14 May 2020

sethnintendo said:

Have the next president as rapist blah blah blah. The current one fucking bragged about being one. Shut the fuck up.  You fucking Australian you aren't even American.  Tell us what to do with our politics.

"Concerned" non-Americans that "just want us to have healthcare" are by far the most unbearable group you can possibly find on the internet.

Last edited by Moren - on 14 May 2020

It's become increasingly clear who the real radicals are in this thread. And it's not the ones who just want a decent, moral POTUS that has the policies and will to really help the poor, working class and poc. It's the bigots showing their true colors by spewing prejudiced, hateful language because of where someone was born/lives and the ones dismissing a victim's tragic experience as nothing more than a political ploy because they have a hard time believing women.

If you bend the knee so much and give ground to the GOP you will eventually become them. It's alright if your candidate is a rapist because the GOP's is, as long as he doesn't brag about it then it's a problem. Disappointed but not surprised.

Last edited by tsogud - on 14 May 2020