By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General Discussion - "Leaving Neverland": Do you think Michael Jackson is Innocent?

 

Thriller and Invincible or Bad and Dangerous

Good guy, wrongly accused 55 51.89%
 
Talented Bad guy 28 26.42%
 
A little of both. 23 21.70%
 
Total:106
omarct said:
Soundwave said:

I think Jackson was an incredible artist and talent and I am a big fan of his music, unfortunately at this point after researching a lot of things, I have to lean towards him being guilty. Just for me a few things beyond just this documentary.

1.) In the late 70s when Jackson was about 21 he had a British boy who was about 13 reached out to him and want to interview him. They exchanged phones numbers and would chat on the phone a lot. After a few weeks of this, Jackson brought up masturbation and told the kid if was masturbating right at that moment. The kid didn't react well to this and according to him Jackson called later to apologize. This boy (now grown adult in his 40s) has never asked for money and has no reason to lie. I don't remember the part in Peter Pan where Peter has a masturbation conversation with the Lost Boys.

2.) According to Jackson's own driver, Jackson slept at Jordy Chandler's home (the 1st accuser in 1993) *thirty nights* in a row, and he would sleep in Jordy's bed with him. When they went to hotels they would also sleep together while Jordy's mother and sister slept in a separate room. This is a repeated pattern with him where he chooses a boy, then befriends the family, then a few innocent sleepovers happen, the parents protest when the kid first sleeps over in his bed, he then asks if they love him, etc. etc. Gradually the kid will start sleeping with Jackson unsupervised, and Jackson buys the mother or parents a gift/trips/in some cases a house mortgage. This happened multiple times to multiple families with a young boy in the same pattern.

3.) There's also a pattern of him having new "boy companion" every few years and then basically dumping them the moment they turn 15/16 (hit puberty). And it's never a fat, ugly kid either.

4.) He seemed to have zero interest in women. By all accounts Brooke Shields, who was considered one of the hottest young women of the time wanted a relationship with him and according to her it was always strictly platonic (even more bizarrely she was his date to the Grammys in the 80s, but he also took along child star Emmaneul Lewis). Tatum O'Neal, another sexy actress by his own admission basically jumped him for sex and he ran out of there. Tatiana Thumbzen, the gorgeous model who was in the "Way You Make Me Feel" video was in love with Jackson and was even pushed by Jackson's mom to make a move on him, when she kissed him during a concert performance, she was immediately fired the next day. According to his second wife, Debbie Rowe, they never had sex, she was artificially insemeinated and that was that. If he was gay, ok fine, but there's even less evidence of any romantic relationships he had with grown men either. 

That and just too many other red flags here. If he was really interested in reliving his childhood, having birthday parties, water fights, playing Peter Pan, etc. why not do it for 4-7 hours a day under parental supervision and leave the sleeping with children part out of it? Especially when it caused massive damage to his career in 1993? The only reason to continue that behavior is if he needed to have those sleepovers for another reason. I'd like to be wrong on this, but I hate to say it, I don't think I'm wrong.

Not to mention the fact that he only "befriended" young "good looking" boys, where were the fat kids? The young girls? The ugly boys? The man had a specific type of boy that he would always "befriend".

I guess you never heard of Michael Jackson's friendship with Dave Dave (David Rothenberg) then plus I wouldn't call Cory Feldman that good looking either.



Around the Network
Chris Hu said:
omarct said:

Not to mention the fact that he only "befriended" young "good looking" boys, where were the fat kids? The young girls? The ugly boys? The man had a specific type of boy that he would always "befriend".

I guess you never heard of Michael Jackson's friendship with Dave Dave (David Rothenberg) then plus I wouldn't call Cory Feldman that good looking either.

I think he was selective in who he choose to molest. It wasn't an easy thing, in the documentary and if you look at the Chandler case as well, it involves basically having to first win over the entire family, usually specifically the mother. He would really lavish the mom in the situation and generally preferred families where the father was estranged it seemed to make a move. There's definitely a pattern there though. 



You know when you start calling the kids ugly, maybe its time to give it a rest...



Click

This really sums things up the two men have books out on the abuse they claim happened and the claims in the books differ significantly from what they said in the documentaries, Michael Jackson is just an easy target to throw allegations at but they're always just that allegations, even the FBI who have something like a 98% conviction rate couldn't find anything to put him away on either he was more untouchable than Capone and Frank Matthews combined or the allegations aren't concrete.



From all I have seem on the subject my stance is that yes he had some mental illness. But the type that he could only have a healthy relationship with kids because that is where his psique was trapped during his whole life.
So yes it is strange that he had kids with him all the time but he didn't had sex with them.

Also I would much more blame parents that would live child at his house without a care and them decades later claim he is a monster. Also take in consideration Culkin as one of his best friend and a child at the time and didn't suffer any sex attempt from MJ.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Around the Network

When will prosecutors sue the two for perjury? Because their claim now (real or not) contradicts what they testified under oath. Or have the allowed timewindow for the accusation ended?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

3sexty said:
PortisheadBiscuit said:

Assumptions to be made from a book that isn't illegal? Not really unless you're grasping for straws. Keep in mind, just because Jackson settled didn't mean criminal charges couldn't have been filed as well. Once the Chandlers got what they wanted ($20 million), they had no interest in pursuing a criminal case. It's also speculated that Jackson was too sick at the time to have undergone a civil trial. It's known he was battling an addiction to pain medication at the time and his advisors at the time didn't want him to go through with it. As regards to Jordan accurately describing Jackson's genitals, that's a bit of revisionist history. There are conflicting accounts on how accurately he described them, one account stating Jordan claimed Jackson was circumcised when he in fact was not. A grand jury felt there was no clear match with Jordan's descriptions. 

Yes the book is a piece of anecdotal evidence and as we both have stated it is not illegal. I still agree on. This. But let's make one thing  clear if we have a collection of this type of evidence even if it cannot corroborate a position of guilt, one would still be strongly inclined to make assumptions in regards to the type of behaviour on display. It's human nature to do so. Let me ask, in knowing these details would you be comfortable leaving your child unsupervised with MJ. Good human judgement would err on the side of very strong caution here and I know I wouldn't. That's for sure. As a parent if you see smoke in a direction, you would steer clear of it even if there is by small chance no fire there. The anecdotal evidence makes a strong case for at least  somekind of judgement call.Again its an opinion which many people share based on what we know. 

To be honest, before the show aired (refuse to call it a documentary) I had doubts about MJ because yes the situation is weird. It wasnt until I started digging deeper in the last week where I see just how much scum MJ had surrounded himself. From maids, to security guards, families of fans, even LaToya betrayed him at one point. He lived a super sheltered life, never got to associate with kids outside of his siblings. I truly believe he was only able to be comfortable around children, and yes our tainted minds lead us to believe he's a sicko because of it. However, no one knows what it's like to be Michael Jackson except, Michael Jackson.



DonFerrari said:
When will prosecutors sue the two for perjury? Because their claim now (real or not) contradicts what they testified under oath. Or have the allowed timewindow for the accusation ended?

I was wondering the same, but apparently sex abuse victims can recant their stories later without risking a perjury charge. 





PortisheadBiscuit said:
DonFerrari said:
When will prosecutors sue the two for perjury? Because their claim now (real or not) contradicts what they testified under oath. Or have the allowed timewindow for the accusation ended?

I was wondering the same, but apparently sex abuse victims can recant their stories later without risking a perjury charge. 

Statute of limitations has passed. Either by coincidence or by plan.



Twitter: @d21lewis