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Forums - Politics Discussion - IGN takes issue with white male lead in Days Gone.

Dante9 on 07 March 2019

Who reads these "official" reviews, anyway? There's plenty of word of mouth and gamer reviews out there to go by. No need to check out these "professional" reviewers, they have become political actors and I wouldn't even trust their judgment when it comes to games.
Also, biker gang leaders tend to be gruff and white. Something totally different would feel out of place and manufactured for an agenda so as to be irritating. Zombie apocalypse scenarios tend to stick to a degree of realism, this is not high fantasy and part of the appeal is that it could basically happen to you. I guess the lead character could have had a different occupation, but they wanted to incorporate motorbike mechanics, so this is a natural way to do it.



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vivster on 07 March 2019

And people think white males have fragile egos.



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Mr Puggsly on 07 March 2019
ArchangelMadzz said:
Mr Puggsly said:

"While I’ll admit that I initially rolled my eyes at yet another Gruff White Male Protagonist™ in a grim world - especially one with such a Gruff White Male Protagonist™-ey name as Deacon St. John."

I'm calling bullshit. He's flat out saying he saw a generic scruffy breaded white guy and assumed he would be like many other generic scruffy bearded protagonists and was pleasantly surprised that they added depth to his character. Why even mention race and gender? Its not something that would have even crossed my mind.

On a side note, Crackdown 3 should get praise from IGN for having a gruff black guy as the lead. But I guess we only attack games for not doing that.

Fixed for you. 

You're missing the point. He could have said he thought the character was generic cookie cutter bullshit that resembles the lead of many other games. That wouldn't have bothered anybody. Instead the character was mocked for being a white male... that's ridiculous.

Let me put it this way, as a normal non-woke person. When I see a female or a non-white as a lead, I don't really put much thought into the race or gender. My primary concern is the character interesting, relatable, has a good voice actor, or whatever else that makes them compelling.

I like Prophet from Crysis and Locke from Halo 5 because I just think they're good characters. I didn't start with a negative feelings of these characters because they were black or anything like that. Hence, if I was annoyed they chose black guys but was ultimately won over by performance. It still begs the question what's my problem with black guys?

We don't care that this IGN person ultimately liked the protagonist. That doesn't excuse the anti-white sentiment.



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ArchangelMadzz on 07 March 2019
Mr Puggsly said:
ArchangelMadzz said:

Fixed for you. 

You're missing the point. He could have said he thought the character was generic cookie cutter bullshit that resembles the lead of many other games. That wouldn't have bothered anybody. Instead the character was mocked for being a white male... that's ridiculous.

Let me put it this way, as a normal non-woke person. When I see a female or a non-white as a lead, I don't really put much thought into the race or gender. My primary concern is the character interesting, relatable, has a good voice actor, or whatever else that makes them compelling.

I like Prophet from Crysis and Locke from Halo 5 because I just think they're good characters. I didn't start with a negative feelings of these characters because they were black or anything like that. Hence, if I was annoyed they chose black guys but was ultimately won over by performance. It still begs the question what's my problem with black guys?

We don't care that this IGN person ultimately liked the protagonist. That doesn't excuse the anti-white sentiment.

If he said 'Oh great another white male protagonist' That would be an anti-white sentiment. 

He statement DID say that he thought the character was generic cookie cutter bullshit. You're getting so caught up on one word you're failing to actually understand what he said. I'm starting to think you don't want to.

StriderKiwi said:
Let's have a little thought experiment shall we?

Which of the following is racist?
A) Not another gruff white male.
B) Not another thuggish black male.
C) Not another curvy white woman.
D) Not another sassy Black woman.
E) All of the above.

Answer: Adding a precursor adjective does not excuse racism.

My thoughts on the game in general are "it looks boring and generic" and the the character was an extension of that. And that's all the description the game and protagonist needs from me! "Boring and generic." The sex and ethnicity doesn't factor into it at all. There's no reason to even mention either.

My favorite bit was the part about the "Gruff White Male Protagonist™-ey name as Deacon St. John." Yeah, not racist at all! And if he had instead said not another "sassy Black Woman-ey name like Shaniqua Williams," that wouldn't have been racist either right!?

ABCD are not racist. They're good criticisms to lack of character imagination. 

I saw the trailer for the Ghostbusters (female version) and was not surprised but still annoyed that even though the women in the movie are smart scientists they had to have the black one be ghetto and dumb. Because dumb ghetto black girl is just over used and not imaginative. Does that make me racist? I hope not seeing as I'm black myself. 

It's like watching a TV and going oh great another nerdy, glasses wearing Asian character. Does that make me racist? Or not like Asians? No. It means I'm tired of tropes and want character with a more interesting canvas. 



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DonFerrari on 07 March 2019

Yes, you can't enjoy a game anymore without looking in care who or what is the protagonist in gender/race spectrum.

 

A good saying for the IGN writer... "when you assume you make an ass of you and me".

 

And to the people complaining of the "trope". You can make A scruffy white male as diverse as you want, because scruffy is just one attribute in that person while white male is not relevant at all.

The problem on trope is if you don't develop the char at all, and that isn't a problem of the trope in itself but bad development. Which doesn't seem to be the case here.

Last edited by DonFerrari - on 07 March 2019

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Kerotan on 07 March 2019
StriderKiwi said:
Let's have a little thought experiment shall we?

Which of the following is racist?
A) Not another gruff white male.
B) Not another thuggish black male.
C) Not another curvy white woman.
D) Not another sassy Black woman.
E) All of the above.

Answer: Adding a precursor adjective does not excuse racism.

My thoughts on the game in general are "it looks boring and generic" and the the character was an extension of that. And that's all the description the game and protagonist needs from me! "Boring and generic." The sex and ethnicity doesn't factor into it at all. There's no reason to even mention either.

My favorite bit was the part about the "Gruff White Male Protagonist™-ey name as Deacon St. John." Yeah, not racist at all! And if he had instead said not another "sassy Black Woman-ey name like Shaniqua Williams," that wouldn't have been racist either right!?

Exactly. You get the point anyway. 

bananaking21 said:
Thank god there isn't too much water in the game though

😂 

collint0101 said:
Kerotan said:

The initial reaction is the problem here. White males should be looked at as equals to every other type of human. As an Irish white male, my white male ancestors were treated like dirt by the British so why should I be downgraded, just because other white males from other races were dominant in the past? 

I enjoy games with white female, black female and black male leads among other races but the gender or race of the lead is not why. It's because the character created is cool or likeable. If the lead is white male their judgment will still be based on their personality not their race or gender. 

It's not that he's a white male it's that he looks like the most generic white male character. Scruffy, tough guy has been done to death. It's the current gen equivalent to half of all protagonists looking like Cole from infamous last gen 

 

Mr Puggsly said:
ArchangelMadzz said:

Fixed for you. 

You're missing the point. He could have said he thought the character was generic cookie cutter bullshit that resembles the lead of many other games. That wouldn't have bothered anybody. Instead the character was mocked for being a white male... that's ridiculous.

Let me put it this way, as a normal non-woke person. When I see a female or a non-white as a lead, I don't really put much thought into the race or gender. My primary concern is the character interesting, relatable, has a good voice actor, or whatever else that makes them compelling.

I like Prophet from Crysis and Locke from Halo 5 because I just think they're good characters. I didn't start with a negative feelings of these characters because they were black or anything like that. Hence, if I was annoyed they chose black guys but was ultimately won over by performance. It still begs the question what's my problem with black guys?

We don't care that this IGN person ultimately liked the protagonist. That doesn't excuse the anti-white sentiment.

You get the point. People like you or me don't judge people or characters based on their gender or skin colour. Like I literally offer no weight to it. 

For those saying it's yet another tough, gruff dude with a beard. Well in a harsh post apocalyptic world that's exactly what you would expect. Somebody who is tough and scruffy whether male, female, black or white. 



pokoko on 07 March 2019
SpokenTruth said:
pokoko said:

Uh ... you do realize that those examples were me mocking the need to call everything a trope, right?  I mean, "fish that swim" didn't tip you off?  For real?  Or are you just pretending you didn't know?

And what you simply seem unable to understand is that saying, "not another cliched character," WHEN HE KNEW NOTHING ABOUT THAT CHARACTER BEYOND HIS APPEARANCE, is ignorance.  It's an assumption, pure and simple, and one that he was WRONG about.  That very fact proves that it was unfounded.  

I detest your way of thinking, and that of the writer, that need to label and prejudge.  That book I referenced, I had absolutely no need to say, "blonde princess, what a boring trope."  I would much rather let the character develop, or not, and then decide how I feel about them.

Anyway, if you're tired of "serious white men" then, jesus christ, I don't know what to say.  Stay away from serious movies, books, and games, because that's just realism.  That's far, far, far more basic and unspecific than "bald space marine," to the point that the comparison just seems silly and forced.

But that's part of what a trope is. It can be an appearance, it can be a style, it can be a persona, it can anything that is cliched and overused.  Why are you not understanding that?

And where did I say anything about "serious white men"?  Or me being tired of "serious white men"?  I was under the impression the problem was "gruff white men".  Not only is there a difference between gruff and serious but there are wholly separate character traits. One deals with voice and the other demeanor.

Wait, what?  You do know the definition of "gruff," don't you?  It certainly doesn't just deal with voice.  

English Language Learners Definition of gruff

: rough or very serious in manner or speech



Kerotan on 07 March 2019
RolStoppable said:
This thread turned out better than expected. At first I thought it was posted as a joke because of its selective quoting, but white males feeling like victims is apparently a very real thing and not just something that exists in parodies.

Yeah all white males are a hive mind who should never feel like victims. Now that's a real parody. 



Mr Puggsly on 07 March 2019
ArchangelMadzz said:
Mr Puggsly said:

You're missing the point. He could have said he thought the character was generic cookie cutter bullshit that resembles the lead of many other games. That wouldn't have bothered anybody. Instead the character was mocked for being a white male... that's ridiculous.

Let me put it this way, as a normal non-woke person. When I see a female or a non-white as a lead, I don't really put much thought into the race or gender. My primary concern is the character interesting, relatable, has a good voice actor, or whatever else that makes them compelling.

I like Prophet from Crysis and Locke from Halo 5 because I just think they're good characters. I didn't start with a negative feelings of these characters because they were black or anything like that. Hence, if I was annoyed they chose black guys but was ultimately won over by performance. It still begs the question what's my problem with black guys?

We don't care that this IGN person ultimately liked the protagonist. That doesn't excuse the anti-white sentiment.

If he said 'Oh great another white male protagonist' That would be an anti-white sentiment. 

He statement DID say that he thought the character was generic cookie cutter bullshit. You're getting so caught up on one word you're failing to actually understand what he said. I'm starting to think you don't want to.

I would assume your example would only be used sarcastically and that would imply the same thing that was said.

Youre saying Im getting caught up on a single word but it says a lot about how the writer thinks. Its a double standard.



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deskpro2k3 on 07 March 2019

+ Gorgeous Details
- Main character is too white.
7.8 - IGN



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