Yeah God of War, Spidey 2, and others should definitely be saved for post launch. Sony should aim to have a big exclusive every quarter. If they release in November like they probably will then they should have one big exclusive to go with it. Then something in March, then something in June, then something in September, then something November again. Just keep it scheduled. I don't like when they roll 2 in real close like GoW and Detroit kinda did. One ends up overshadowing the other. If they release in September like I would want then just move em all back 2 months from what I said. A nice steady pace
GoW and Detroit are for very different demographics, just see the 3x (or more) sales difference between them. Sure a lot of us bought the 2 and could have a little more spacing between them, but that isn't a big issue. Although on launch it is good to have space.
Well I'm thinking mindshare and advertising wise it's just better to evenly space things. Plus Sony is great about stacking exclusives until a console is dead but they could honestly do that a little less and I'd still consider their support wonderful. They had Sly 4, Puppeteer, GT6, TLoU, and Beyond 2 Souls in 2013 for PS3. Now do I want them to abandon their previous gen console and have nothing for it in its last years like Xbox did last gen? No. But do I think stuff like Puppeteer and Sly 4 could have done better as the new gen titles and could GT6 have been their definitive next gen racing game in 2014 and therefore helped sales even more? Yes.
The Last of Us 2 and Ghost of Tsushima will launch on the PS4, that's a certainty. There's no way they'll miss out on a 95+ million user base that the PS4 has.
Death Stranding is the only one I'm not certain about, and Final Fantasy VII Remake will certainly come out on PS5 around 2021/2022.
Here's a question though, how much better can a $399 PS5/new Xbox be compared to the current $499 (sometimes $399) Xbox One X? MS made a great machine with the X1X and it might make the base units of the 9th gen underwhelming. Hence, for a significant visual boost in the 9th gen we might need premium consoles at launch.
There is tons of room for movement with a new console... If we assume 230mm2 is the sweet spot for GPU sizes... I don't see why we can't easily double the GPU capabilities.
Bandwidth we are probably looking at 50% to a doubling... And 16GB is a feasible baseline with GDDR6.
But the CPU is where the real gains are, 8-10x more performance is easily attainable.
With that said, the Xbox One X is more expensive to produce than it needs to be, the Vapor Chamber Cooling and Power Delivery are "premium" set-ups that can be omitted to bring down costs.
Mr Puggsly said:
I mean we could argue the Xbox One X is held back significantly by the Xbox One S. However, there is a still massive disparity between them. The disparity is so huge in some games that it doesn't feel like X1X is being held back at all.
I disagree... I mean, outside of resolution, framerates and a few effects, often there is little to distinguish the platforms... At the end of the day, if you are an Xbox One owner and you move over to the Xbox One X, you still feel like you are using an Xbox One and you are still playing 8th generation games.
Halo 5 for instance is an "Enhanced" title and it really isn't a new overhauled experience on the Xbox One X... Obviously some games will have more extreme differences, but most games sink the extra performance headroom into Resolution and Framerates rather than targeting a 1080P/1440P resolution @30fps and bolstering visual fidelity across the board.
If they can release base consoles with double the GPU power of the X1X, along with 16GB of RAM and significantly better CPU at $399, I'd argue premium consoles at launch are not that crucial. But the likelihood of that seems really low to me, I'd like to be wrong though.
You just made a straw man. I said "SOME GAMES" and a resolution boost is huge when its games in the ball park of 720p. You already know some of the games I'm referring to so I won't drag this discussion further.
Recently Completed: River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)
Even a $599 console will struggle with it (at least at a constant). 4K should be a breeze on its own, though. So, I agree, to a degree, with both of you. But then, I'm one of those who would buy a $600 console (again), so you're right. The market for it is there.
So long as there is a base option, all should be fine.
Well the $599 option isn't supposed to thrive in the same way as the base model. Its for people who want high visual fidelity and willing to pay a premium and it makes the visual disparity between console and PC less significant. Ideally I would like RAM and CPU to be equal so the base model games don't suffer outside of GPU limitations. Just make sure base model are equipped with significant RAM and CPU capabilities that should be needed for the 9th gen.
Here's a question though, how much better can a $399 PS5/new Xbox be compared to the current $499 (sometimes $399) Xbox One X? MS made a great machine with the X1X and it might make the base units of the 9th gen underwhelming. Hence, for a significant visual boost in the 9th gen we might need premium consoles at launch.
Not very much, hence why I think people will be very underwhelmed by the next gen at launch and thus selling pretty slowly after the first rush.
I would prefer the jump from base to premium be at least $200.
I don't think they can make a significant enough upgrade for only a $100. Especially if they really want to push closer to 4K/60 fps.
People said the same about the pro yet it was a decent upgrade and sold very well.
If they do a premium at launch do you think they'll do a mid gen upgrade as well?
I'm sure the Pro sold fine given PS4 is a top selling console already. But I don't see much hype or fanfare over it, I genuinely feel Sony was too concerned about sticking to $399 that they made an underwhelming premium console and its an edge they didn't need to give MS.
If Sony makes a base for $399 and a premium for $599, I don't think the mid gen upgrade would be as necessary. The 8th gen upgrades are primarily GPU upgrades, they can have double or triple the GPU power at launch as well. After a few years people could upgrade to the premium for about $399.
Significant CPU and RAM upgrades should be equal on the base and premium in my opinion. I mean a CPU capable of 60 fps gaming isn't expensive and 16GB of RAM dedicated to games should be more than enough. The X1X is already giving 9GB of RAM for games so its not a big upgrade per se.
Recently Completed: River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)
Well the $599 option isn't supposed to thrive in the same way as the base model. Its for people who want high visual fidelity and willing to pay a premium and it makes the visual disparity between console and PC less significant. Ideally I would like RAM and CPU to be equal so the base model games don't suffer outside of GPU limitations. Just make sure base model are equipped with significant RAM and CPU capabilities that should be needed for the 9th gen.
Here's a question though, how much better can a $399 PS5/new Xbox be compared to the current $499 (sometimes $399) Xbox One X? MS made a great machine with the X1X and it might make the base units of the 9th gen underwhelming. Hence, for a significant visual boost in the 9th gen we might need premium consoles at launch.
Not very much, hence why I think people will be very underwhelmed by the next gen at launch and thus selling pretty slowly after the first rush.
If the visuals aren't a significant upgrade from what we're seeing on the X1X, I think people are going to be genuinely underwhelmed. I mean people aren't necessarily blown away by what the X1X is doing either even though its a nice improvement.
Either way, base 8th gen consoles are still the lead platforms at the moment and at the very least 9th gen specs (even if underwhelming) will move lead hardware development forward.
Recently Completed: River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)
Not very much, hence why I think people will be very underwhelmed by the next gen at launch and thus selling pretty slowly after the first rush.
If the visuals aren't a significant upgrade from what we're seeing on the X1X, I think people are going to be genuinely underwhelmed. I mean people aren't necessarily blown away by what the X1X is doing either even though its a nice improvement.
Either way, base 8th gen consoles are still the lead platforms at the moment and at the very least 9th gen specs (even if underwhelming) will move lead hardware development forward.
I think people are making a mistake using X1X as a point reference. Firstly it assumes that it's hardware is fully being utilised in most games (it's not) & it assumes that native 4k will be the target for most AAA PS5 games (I don't think it will).
With all its beefed up specs the X1X still does not have a game which looks as good of God of War, Uncharted 4 or The Last of Us II.... fundementally its playing Xbox One S games with resolution cranked up & some minor texture/stability improvements. Resolution is nice but it's really not responsible for the wow factor when a new shiny game is shown off.. There are still people on this forum who think that TLOU2 demo is secretly running on the PS5 (ND have confirmed its running on PS4Pro) and Sony didn't need 4k to achieve the illusion of next gen.
So really our question should be looking at the base PS4 which doesn't have a significantly lower spec system holding back (unlike Xbox One X being held back by base systems), and manages to achieve stellar results, normally at 1080p 30fps. With PS5 developers will be working with a new base system 6-8x the flops, 6-8x the memory bandwith, 2-3x the overall RAM, a CPU which will run circles around Pro or X1X's jaguar cores and Navi architecture which will bring efficiencies everywhere. The only thing 1X games show us, is that cross gen PS5 titles will comfortable output 4k, 60fps with all the bells and whistles.
Where games built for the next gen are concerned, I think many AAA developers will go for upscalling solutions and push CGI quality visuals before pushing native 4k. The audience (and TV's) just isn't there to make 4k the target, not when there'll be new up-scaling solutions which offer something comparable to 4k at half the performance cost. Pro and 1X solely exist to offer resolution jumps (and aren't exactly selling like hotcakes) but when the new wave of systems are the baseline I'm sure we'll see targets (and gfx settings) all over the place including unapologetic 1080p. And on that note I do not think sony will offer 2 SKU's at launch. For Microsoft it's important because they need to find a way to undercut Sony and rejoin the race, but offering separate 1080p and 4k systems out the gate doesn't sound like it's ideal from a development standpoint and I think Sony will just release one SKU. Supersampling will still benefit 1080p users, users won't have to purchase a new system when they decide to update their TV sets and developers will feel more free to create games in their own vision, their own targets and have a more powerful baseline to work with as opposed to a gimped 1080p box (Lockhart/re-purposed X1X with a new CPU).
Also, don't forget that those enthusiasts who will upgrade mostly also sell their old console. A new new console for 499$ or an used Pro/X with almost the same visuals for 249$, what would you choose?
If PS5 and "Xbox Two" get full BC, of course many of them will do that.
And that is a good thing for several parties:
enthusiasts can upgrade to a new $499 PS5/Xbox Two for about $200 - $300 without losing access to their old games (that can increase the demand for the new consoles)
late adopters can get some sweet deals for a used PS4 Pro / Xbox One X ($200 - $300 depending on the model and condition)
less new PS4 and Xbox One X consoles have to be produced after their successors' launch -> good for the environment
It would only hurt the post-launch PS4 and Xbox One sales a bit, but since the money is made with software and not with aged hardware, Sony and Microsoft probably won't mind.
Also, don't forget that those enthusiasts who will upgrade mostly also sell their old console. A new new console for 499$ or an used Pro/X with almost the same visuals for 249$, what would you choose?
If PS5 and "Xbox Two" get full BC, of course many of them will do that.
And that is a good thing for several parties:
enthusiasts can upgrade to a new $499 PS5/Xbox Two for about $200 - $300 without losing access to their old games (that can increase the demand for the new consoles)
late adopters can get some sweet deals for a used PS4 Pro / Xbox One X ($200 - $300 depending on the model and condition)
less new PS4 and Xbox One X consoles have to be produced after their successors' launch -> good for the environment
It would only hurt the post-launch PS4 and Xbox One sales a bit, but since the money is made with software and not with aged hardware, Sony and Microsoft probably won't mind.
Do you really expect them to get back 300$ for an used console? 100-200$ seem more likely to me.
And that all implies BC. While it's probable to come, there's no guarantee yet.
But somehow, you all seem not to get the point I'm trying to make: That the PS5/Xbox Next really need some exclusive killer apps to make people move over to the new system if the visuals are so similar. Especially those who play mostly just annualized titles like CoD or Fifa probably won't see much of a need to upgrade anytime soon if they have a Pro or X already.
