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Forums - Gaming Discussion - gamrConnect Presents: Their 979 Greatest Games, as of 2018

Fallawful on 09 July 2019

Great job on this!

I'm a bit disappointed by the extent of the Nintendomination of this, still as a Nintendo fan. As much as I love Mario Kart 8, I don't think it belongs at the 7th spot. Both Galaxies being represented in the two twenty is nice, though.

Metal Gear Solid 3 got snubbed,



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VAMatt on 09 July 2019

This list is ridiculously Nintendo-centric. In some sense, it is interesting to look through. But, it certainly cannot be taken as a serious ranking of the greatest games ever made.



TruckOSaurus on 09 July 2019
VAMatt said:
This list is ridiculously Nintendo-centric. In some sense, it is interesting to look through. But, it certainly cannot be taken as a serious ranking of the greatest games ever made.

Looking at the games in the Top 100, most have under 10 votes total which means it wouldn't be too hard to make the list more diverse if a couple more Playstation leaning users submitted their lists.



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Barkley on 10 July 2019
mZuzek said:

"What matters most to me is each person's individual list, and it bothers me that there are people (RolStoppable) who would specifically design their lists to affect the end results. But, oh well"

Just don't accept the list.


The_Liquid_Laser on 10 July 2019

No list is 100% objective, but if you look at actual game sales, Nintendo games tend to sell a whole lot. Like they basically dominate in the top 50 best selling games of all time. Now consider that this site is really console-centric instead of PC-centric (and forget about arcade games), and that weights things toward Nintendo even more.

Of course, I am also not sure how "the formula" works. What you might do is consider how "the formula" might be biased against multi-platform games. If one person says GTA V on PC only and another on PS4 only, then does that help GTA V move up in the ranking twice or once? That sort of thing.



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Azuren on 10 July 2019
RolStoppable said:
mZuzek said:

Both votes would move GTA V up in the ranking. The way it is right now, it's pretty simple and it is how it's been since the event started back in 2010 - someone puts a game at #6, the game gets 6 points; someone puts a game at #48, the game gets 48 points; someone doesn't list a game, it gets 60 points. The points are then added up, and that's it. (Lower points being better in this case, of course.)

I am considering something a bit more 'advanced', that would change how many points a vote is worth depending on how many votes a game already has - meaning that, for games that have several votes, the average score per vote would become more important compared to just the raw amount of votes. I'm not really sure how to do that, though, but more importantly for now, I'm not yet sure if I want to.

I like that idea. Should help to have a stronger Nintendo presence on the list.

What do you mean a "stronger" Nintendo presence? The top ten is -exclusively- Nintendo, and quite nearly half of the top 100 are Nintendo first party. The only way it could have a stronger Nintendo presence at this point is if games were docked points for not appearing on a Nintendo platform.



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Azuren on 10 July 2019
RolStoppable said:
Azuren said:

What do you mean a "stronger" Nintendo presence? The top ten is -exclusively- Nintendo, and quite nearly half of the top 100 are Nintendo first party. The only way it could have a stronger Nintendo presence at this point is if games were docked points for not appearing on a Nintendo platform.

Indeed, there are already lots of Nintendo games on the list and that's because Nintendo games get lots of votes. If there was a bonus applied to games that get a lot of votes, it would favor Nintendo games because they are already the most voted for games to begin with.

Well, then it would seem like a bonus would be a bad idea. Why would you like a bad idea?



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SnesTea on 10 July 2019

I can't believe OoT lost to the trash that is Mario 64.



theRepublic on 11 July 2019

If people are worried about the end result, then they need to vote. That is the only thing that could possibly change the list. No change to the formula is ever going to change the fact that this is basically a popularity contest. Popular games will get a lot of votes. And Nintendo makes very popular games, so...



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theRepublic on 11 July 2019
mZuzek said:
RolStoppable said:

Okay, it wasn't really clear what you were suggesting.

In any case, the current system is fine because it's rigged against games with a low amount of votes. You said that any game without a vote receives 60 points from the given user, so that's a fine way to penalize less popular games.

Don't think about turning the points system upside down. If you gave the #1 50 points, #2 49 points etc., then you wouldn't penalize a game for getting no vote at all from someone. Naturally, the game with the highest points total would be #1 on the overall list.

That's not what I was planning either, but that system wouldn't be any different from the current one as long as unvoted games got -9 points. It's only done the way it is now because it's a lot simpler to compile the data.

What I'm thinking is something like... basically, the more votes a game has, the less each individual vote counts - so at the higher ends of the ranking, the average rank of each vote would matter more than the amount of votes a game gets. I'm probably going to have to apply a similar system for something else I'm planning on doing, but I'm not sure if it's the perfect or the worst time to implement a change on the final results.

You say it's always been an issue, but I've been here since 2014 and nah, it was never as Nintendo-heavy as it's been in the last few years. 2018 was thankfully slightly less Nintendo-centric than 2017, which had Mario Kart 8 at #5 (disgusting), but still pretty bad. It's obvious that Nintendo will always have a heavy presence in such lists, but it's been too much, and it's clear that games such as Mario Kart 8 only make it as high as they do because it's basically everyone's go-to Mario Kart game to list, so it gets loads of votes but rarely does it make it to anyone's individual top 10. It's just not as impactful of a game to most people, but it is one that's almost universally liked, and it's okay for the results to prioritize that, but it's making the list increasingly predictable and boring... and most importantly, alienating to some people.

To use an example of a game I personally love, Hollow Knight nearly made it into my top 5, but it hasn't made it even into the overall top 100, which boasts 13 Mario games (including MK), 9 Zelda games and 6 Pokémon games. That's alienating - that the list favors Nintendo games so heavily while your favorites might not have a shot at making it anywhere near the top. In fact, if you compare score averages, Hollow Knight averaged a 14th place among the 5 lists it was in, whereas Mario Kart 8 averaged roughly 20th place; but Hollow Knight is 101st on the overall results, while Mario Kart sits in 7th place. I'm not saying it can't work that way, but it is something to think about.

I think the formula was kept secret in the past, but now that you have revealed it...

Since you are doing a lower score is better format, and any game not showing up on a list gets hit with a 50+10 score, that is doing huge damage to games that only get a few votes.  At the same time, it is a bonus to games that get a lot of votes, even if they are low on a list.  Do games that get a lot of votes really need a bonus?  This is exactly what you are talking about in your last paragraph.

It might take more work, but reversing the scoring and going with the highest score as the winner may work out better.  And just a zero score for anything not showing up.

Although I guess you could keep the same format and just hit games not on a list with a 50+1 score.  You could take the data from this year and see what happens with that change.



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