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Forums - Sales Discussion - Global Hardware 15 December 2018

Biggerboat1 on 08 January 2019

I'd say the usage is as good a gauge as any in determining what Switch should be categorised as.

This report shows that the split is pretty even with just under 20% using it primarily as a home console, 30% using it primarily as a hendheld (or in tabletop) & the majority using it in both modes.

So saying that it doesn't compete with PS4 & XB is silly as 70% of Switch owners are using it, at least in part, as a home console...

It'll be interesting so see whether those that are being so evangelical about what does and doesn't constitute a 'true home console' are so stringent when the stream-only XB launches (which if successful, will likely be followed by it's PS equivalent) - will those sales not count? Because those systems will have way more in common with a Steam Link than a console...

In which case you'd be arguing that a streaming device is more of a home console than the Switch...

 



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Intrinsic on 08 January 2019
RolStoppable said:

 

While I don't think that you have the same motivation as CrazyGPU, your statement that Nintendo is not in the home console business is misguided, because for the average person any dedicated gaming device that connects to a TV and provides generally expected functionality such as local multiplayer is a home console. Switch as a hybrid serves both the home console and handheld console side, so Nintendo is still in both businesses even once the 3DS is gone. Every customer is free to decide how much usage as home console or handheld console their Switch gets, and the only new thing Switch brings as a hybrid console is that any given user can decide how the console is used. However, that doesn't create a new hybrid console business.

If your interpretation is that Switch is only in the handheld business, you have to explain how and why a $300 handheld with $60 games sells so well after the previous generation had two $250 handhelds with $40 games that both had significant problems to get a foothold in the market.

Well first off... you are right. My opinion could very well be misguided especially considering the extremist nature of my qualification.

But you will be wrong to assume that I am saying that because the NS is not in the home console business anymore it means I am saying they are in the handheld business. I am not, cause I don't think the NS is a handheld either. 

I think its a hybrid.

Now as I have explained, while its a hybrid I feel it has more in common with a handheld than a hme console, I feel it was built from the round up as a handheld albeit one built for 2017 but it is by all means a hybrid.

Now that could explain why it sells for what it sells, that could be one of the home console thins it has inherited too. So the same way I will argue that nintend has pulled out of the traditional home console market is the same way I would argue that they have pulled out of the traditional handheld market. Its a hybrid. 



TheBlackNaruto on 08 January 2019
drinkandswim said:
TheBlackNaruto said:

Annoyance yeah that can be said. But that can be said for just about any and everything to be honest but I can actually respect that more than someone saying downplaying or hating. Heck during the Wii era it was said that it was not direct comp with the PS4/XB1 and it seemed to be a general consensus. The PS3/XB360 directly competed and the Wii indirectly. Not sure why it is all of a sudden such a big deal with saying it about the Switch.

So then if that is the case why in your previous post did you put the PS4 as the #2 console and XB1 as the #3? Wouldn't the PS4 be number 1 since it is the #1 console in global hardware sales for 2018? Or are you saying you think the Switch will be #1 for 2018? Lastly so you are saying the Switch will be the number one global console until 2022 at the LEAST. So what are you Switch sales predictions for those years then?

I think Global will be close but i expect Sony to win 2018 about 18M to 17M. But I do think they will win US.

2019 22 million

2020 24 million

2021 22 million

2022 20 million

Seriously  wow. You expect over 20 million every year for the next 4years! That is a VERY bold prediction! Wii levels! So you think the Switch will EASILY surpass Wii sales and possible even PS4 total sales whatever they may be?



The absence of evidence is NOT the evidence of absence...

PSN: StlUzumaki23

drinkandswim on 08 January 2019
TheBlackNaruto said:
drinkandswim said:

I think Global will be close but i expect Sony to win 2018 about 18M to 17M. But I do think they will win US.

2019 22 million

2020 24 million

2021 22 million

2022 20 million

Seriously  wow. You expect over 20 million every year for the next 4years! That is a VERY bold prediction! Wii levels! So you think the Switch will EASILY surpass Wii sales and possible even PS4 total sales whatever they may be?

I definitely think it will surpass Wii numbers. I owned Wii and didn’t think it was that great. I thought the great sales numbers were just based on its Casual gamer appeal.



Biggerboat1 on 08 January 2019
Intrinsic said:
RolStoppable said:

 

While I don't think that you have the same motivation as CrazyGPU, your statement that Nintendo is not in the home console business is misguided, because for the average person any dedicated gaming device that connects to a TV and provides generally expected functionality such as local multiplayer is a home console. Switch as a hybrid serves both the home console and handheld console side, so Nintendo is still in both businesses even once the 3DS is gone. Every customer is free to decide how much usage as home console or handheld console their Switch gets, and the only new thing Switch brings as a hybrid console is that any given user can decide how the console is used. However, that doesn't create a new hybrid console business.

If your interpretation is that Switch is only in the handheld business, you have to explain how and why a $300 handheld with $60 games sells so well after the previous generation had two $250 handhelds with $40 games that both had significant problems to get a foothold in the market.

Well first off... you are right. My opinion could very well be misguided especially considering the extremist nature of my qualification.

But you will be wrong to assume that I am saying that because the NS is not in the home console business anymore it means I am saying they are in the handheld business. I am not, cause I don't think the NS is a handheld either. 

I think its a hybrid.

Now as I have explained, while its a hybrid I feel it has more in common with a handheld than a hme console, I feel it was built from the round up as a handheld albeit one built for 2017 but it is by all means a hybrid.

Now that could explain why it sells for what it sells, that could be one of the home console thins it has inherited too. So the same way I will argue that nintend has pulled out of the traditional home console market is the same way I would argue that they have pulled out of the traditional handheld market. Its a hybrid. 

Can't you see how silly that sounds though...

Nintendo employs the same people it did before Switch came out, makes the same games, sells to the same market - yet according to you they have pulled out of 1 business, are pulling out of another and have moved into a completely new business...

Does it not make more sense that that by creating a single hybrid they remain in both the handheld and home console markets? 

Take the Surface Book - it's a hybrid - it's design allows it to be a tablet and a laptop, rather than precludes it from being either - which seems to be what you're saying...



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EricHiggin on 08 January 2019
Intrinsic said:
RolStoppable said:

While I don't think that you have the same motivation as CrazyGPU, your statement that Nintendo is not in the home console business is misguided, because for the average person any dedicated gaming device that connects to a TV and provides generally expected functionality such as local multiplayer is a home console. Switch as a hybrid serves both the home console and handheld console side, so Nintendo is still in both businesses even once the 3DS is gone. Every customer is free to decide how much usage as home console or handheld console their Switch gets, and the only new thing Switch brings as a hybrid console is that any given user can decide how the console is used. However, that doesn't create a new hybrid console business.

If your interpretation is that Switch is only in the handheld business, you have to explain how and why a $300 handheld with $60 games sells so well after the previous generation had two $250 handhelds with $40 games that both had significant problems to get a foothold in the market.

Well first off... you are right. My opinion could very well be misguided especially considering the extremist nature of my qualification.

But you will be wrong to assume that I am saying that because the NS is not in the home console business anymore it means I am saying they are in the handheld business. I am not, cause I don't think the NS is a handheld either. 

I think its a hybrid.

Now as I have explained, while its a hybrid I feel it has more in common with a handheld than a hme console, I feel it was built from the round up as a handheld albeit one built for 2017 but it is by all means a hybrid.

Now that could explain why it sells for what it sells, that could be one of the home console thins it has inherited too. So the same way I will argue that nintend has pulled out of the traditional home console market is the same way I would argue that they have pulled out of the traditional handheld market. Its a hybrid. 

Switch is no doubt competing in the home console market, but handheld as well. They are double dipping and hedging their bet in a way, which isn't exactly a stupid idea, considering how their hardware sales have turned out over the last couple decades, and where the future is eventually headed.

Nin may market the Switch as home console hybrid, but that doesn't automatically make it so. There's a person on YouTube who identifies as an 'attack helicopter'. I was stunned when I was made aware of this, because I assumed they were a human being. What a moron I am. How could I not have known, and clearly seen they were a mechanical flying war machine all this time? Considering they are their own person, and know themselves better than anyone else, it must be true, right? Which must also mean any corporation who creates and labels a product a certain way, must also be undeniably correct. Wait what...?



TheBlackNaruto on 08 January 2019
drinkandswim said:
TheBlackNaruto said:

Seriously  wow. You expect over 20 million every year for the next 4years! That is a VERY bold prediction! Wii levels! So you think the Switch will EASILY surpass Wii sales and possible even PS4 total sales whatever they may be?

I definitely think it will surpass Wii numbers. I owned Wii and didn’t think it was that great. I thought the great sales numbers were just based on its Casual gamer appeal.

Okay well time will tell! Good luck with your prediction!



The absence of evidence is NOT the evidence of absence...

PSN: StlUzumaki23

Biggerboat1 on 08 January 2019
EricHiggin said:
Intrinsic said:

Well first off... you are right. My opinion could very well be misguided especially considering the extremist nature of my qualification.

But you will be wrong to assume that I am saying that because the NS is not in the home console business anymore it means I am saying they are in the handheld business. I am not, cause I don't think the NS is a handheld either. 

I think its a hybrid.

Now as I have explained, while its a hybrid I feel it has more in common with a handheld than a hme console, I feel it was built from the round up as a handheld albeit one built for 2017 but it is by all means a hybrid.

Now that could explain why it sells for what it sells, that could be one of the home console thins it has inherited too. So the same way I will argue that nintend has pulled out of the traditional home console market is the same way I would argue that they have pulled out of the traditional handheld market. Its a hybrid. 

Switch is no doubt competing in the home console market, but handheld as well. They are double dipping and hedging their bet in a way, which isn't exactly a stupid idea, considering how their hardware sales have turned out over the last couple decades, and where the future is eventually headed.

Nin may market the Switch as home console hybrid, but that doesn't automatically make it so. There's a person on YouTube who identifies as an 'attack helicopter'. I was stunned when I was made aware of this, because I assumed they were a human being. What a moron I am. How could I not have known, and clearly seen they were a mechanical flying war machine all this time? Considering they are their own person, and know themselves better than anyone else, it must be true, right? Which must also mean any corporation who creates and labels a product a certain way, must also be undeniably correct. Wait what...?

I agree with you that it really doesn't matter what Nintendo tells us the Switch is.

Like any sensible company they've called it whatever they think will result in the best strategic position and/or profit...

Those that think it is what Nintendo tell us it is would do well to google 'marketing'...



EricHiggin on 08 January 2019
Biggerboat1 said:
EricHiggin said:

Switch is no doubt competing in the home console market, but handheld as well. They are double dipping and hedging their bet in a way, which isn't exactly a stupid idea, considering how their hardware sales have turned out over the last couple decades, and where the future is eventually headed.

Nin may market the Switch as home console hybrid, but that doesn't automatically make it so. There's a person on YouTube who identifies as an 'attack helicopter'. I was stunned when I was made aware of this, because I assumed they were a human being. What a moron I am. How could I not have known, and clearly seen they were a mechanical flying war machine all this time? Considering they are their own person, and know themselves better than anyone else, it must be true, right? Which must also mean any corporation who creates and labels a product a certain way, must also be undeniably correct. Wait what...?

I agree with you that it really doesn't matter what Nintendo tells us the Switch is.

Like any sensible company they've called it whatever they think will result in the best strategic position and/or profit...

Those that think it is what Nintendo tell us it is would do well to google 'marketing'...

White lies, nothing more really. It's not like they're saying it's a home console but when you get it home there's no way to hook it up to another display of some sort. The price is a minor issue for those who see an XB1, PS4 and Switch, and assume they will get the same type of overall digital experience, not understanding the value they are paying for is the physical portability and not the performance. How many people this ends up being an issue for is likely a very small minority.



drinkandswim on 08 January 2019
TheBlackNaruto said:
drinkandswim said:

I definitely think it will surpass Wii numbers. I owned Wii and didn’t think it was that great. I thought the great sales numbers were just based on its Casual gamer appeal.

Okay well time will tell! Good luck with your prediction!

Thanks! Obviously depends on what kind of competition arrives, and games that come out. But i think it covers a broad enough area that it definitely has the potential to outsell all systems. I mean regardless of whether people think its a console or not its currently the only place people can play Zelda, Mario and Metroid, etc.