Forums - Sales Discussion - Global Hardware 8 December 2018 (Smash Week)

DonFerrari said:
drinkandswim said:

I never said anything about a PS5/X2 Portable Equivalent. I said Nintendo Switch needs to release a Pro that can offer Xbox One/PS4 graphics by the time the Next Gen arrives on the market in order to stay relevant, and get some third party ports. 

Switch is quite "near" X1/PS4 graphics. But by next gen time that won't be enough to get ports.

X1 is like 1,2 TF and next gen on 12-15TF level (less than that would be low considering X1X already cross 6TF), I know TF isn't all but just as generic measuring the gap we can stay on it. So if Switch Pro or Switch 2 only get inside 1,2-1,6 TF level of processing power/graphics it won't receive AAA 3rd party (not that it even needs, AA and Indies would be enough to fill the gaps on Nintendo releasing schedule).

More important than reaching near X1 or PS4 level of graphic would be similar tech of PS5 and X2, because not using similar tech (even if a lot less powered) would be worse on the scalability and porting than the pure power gap.

As long as PS4 and XBO are getting ports, Switch will also get ports as the extra cost is more than outweighted by the extra sales. If the Next-Gen consoles release late next year, it would mean that support is guaranteed until at least 2023, at which point the Switch would be over 6 years old and sales should start to drop anyway by then. I'm expecting a successor for 2024-2025 anyway, so it wouldn't matter much in any which way.



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drinkandswim said:
Intrinsic said:

If you really believe this...........

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/apple-says-its-new-ipad-is-as-powerful-as-xbox-one/1100-6462892/

 

I haven't benchmarked it myself. I am going by what Apple is saying and Phil Spencer himself hasn't shot it down actually complimented the comparison. 

That would require quite the jump in performance. Even the upcoming Snapdragon 8cx only reaches about Switch GPU power (and a Tegra X1 running at full speed still has a 30% faster GPU than that!)

More probably, it's duable to a technicality: XBO calculates FP16 (half precision) at the same speed as FP32 ("full" precision), while mobile chips can calculate those at twice the speed. So in FP16, they could catch up to XBO in GFLOPS due to this. But videogames need FP32 most of the time, so an A12 Bionic wouldn't be able to handle the graphics in those games in any way.



Bofferbrauer2 said:
drinkandswim said:

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/apple-says-its-new-ipad-is-as-powerful-as-xbox-one/1100-6462892/

 

I haven't benchmarked it myself. I am going by what Apple is saying and Phil Spencer himself hasn't shot it down actually complimented the comparison. 

That would require quite the jump in performance. Even the upcoming Snapdragon 8cx only reaches about Switch GPU power (and a Tegra X1 running at full speed still has a 30% faster GPU than that!)

More probably, it's duable to a technicality: XBO calculates FP16 (half precision) at the same speed as FP32 ("full" precision), while mobile chips can calculate those at twice the speed. So in FP16, they could catch up to XBO in GFLOPS due to this. But videogames need FP32 most of the time, so an A12 Bionic wouldn't be able to handle the graphics in those games in any way.

To me its just interesting how much Mobile is closing the gap. December should be a great month for Nintendo. Im looking forward to gaming in 2019.



Why are these all out of order suddenly?

http://www.vgchartz.com/games/games.php?console=NS



Poweranimals said:
Why are these all out of order suddenly?

http://www.vgchartz.com/games/games.php?console=NS

Depends on the criteria with which you chose to search. For example, are you searching by Last Update or Release Date or ...?



                                                                                                             

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drinkandswim said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

That would require quite the jump in performance. Even the upcoming Snapdragon 8cx only reaches about Switch GPU power (and a Tegra X1 running at full speed still has a 30% faster GPU than that!)

More probably, it's duable to a technicality: XBO calculates FP16 (half precision) at the same speed as FP32 ("full" precision), while mobile chips can calculate those at twice the speed. So in FP16, they could catch up to XBO in GFLOPS due to this. But videogames need FP32 most of the time, so an A12 Bionic wouldn't be able to handle the graphics in those games in any way.

To me its just interesting how much Mobile is closing the gap. December should be a great month for Nintendo. Im looking forward to gaming in 2019.

It's not closing the gap.

Even in 7nm, anything close to XBO power in such a small casing like a tablet would totally overheat and shut down in minutes, if not seconds. It still needs active cooling to achieve that, something tablets normally do not have.

A Ryzen 5 2500U found in fairly thin Laptops comes close to XBO power, a 2700U would actually surpass it. But in both cases, that's peak power, and I don't think they can keep those GPU boosts over prolonged times even though they have a 15W TDP, about 3 times what tablets have. In other words, while the A12 could reach XBO power (and, like I said, even then probably just on a technicality), there's no way it could hold that much power.



According to insiders PS4 is tracking below 1M for December, but you want us to believe it already sold more than a third of that in the first week? Lol.



"The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must" - Thoukydides

Bofferbrauer2 said:
drinkandswim said:

To me its just interesting how much Mobile is closing the gap. December should be a great month for Nintendo. Im looking forward to gaming in 2019.

It's not closing the gap.

Even in 7nm, anything close to XBO power in such a small casing like a tablet would totally overheat and shut down in minutes, if not seconds. It still needs active cooling to achieve that, something tablets normally do not have.

A Ryzen 5 2500U found in fairly thin Laptops comes close to XBO power, a 2700U would actually surpass it. But in both cases, that's peak power, and I don't think they can keep those GPU boosts over prolonged times even though they have a 15W TDP, about 3 times what tablets have. In other words, while the A12 could reach XBO power (and, like I said, even then probably just on a technicality), there's no way it could hold that much power.

Mobile/handheld gaming does have three limiting factors- size/overheating/battery life. All three of those are solved by improving chip technology as you can genererate more quality images with less power. I do believe for sure 7nm tech will be able to generate xbox one graphics maybe even closer to PS4 base.



drinkandswim said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

It's not closing the gap.

Even in 7nm, anything close to XBO power in such a small casing like a tablet would totally overheat and shut down in minutes, if not seconds. It still needs active cooling to achieve that, something tablets normally do not have.

A Ryzen 5 2500U found in fairly thin Laptops comes close to XBO power, a 2700U would actually surpass it. But in both cases, that's peak power, and I don't think they can keep those GPU boosts over prolonged times even though they have a 15W TDP, about 3 times what tablets have. In other words, while the A12 could reach XBO power (and, like I said, even then probably just on a technicality), there's no way it could hold that much power.

Mobile/handheld gaming does have three limiting factors- size/overheating/battery life. All three of those are solved by improving chip technology as you can genererate more quality images with less power. I do believe for sure 7nm tech will be able to generate xbox one graphics maybe even closer to PS4 base.

Here is the thin with this.... you are right. But maybe your timeframe or expectations are just off. 

I mean its common sense really, if at 20nm (which is what the X1 APU in the NS is based n we have around 0.5TF of GPU power, then a 7nm APU that takes up the same physical size should be capable of at least 1TF - 1.2TF of GPU power while being more efficient in the process. Which will Put a NS2 at around the power of the XB1.

But what you are missing here is that that isn't new. Technology always gets better The PSV could play PS1 games, the NS can mtch the PS3/360 and even run PS4/XB1 games. And the NS2 will run PS4/XB1 games a lot better than the NS can run them. 

But all that is moot when you consider that for every jump seen in a mobile based hardware, there is an equally big one seen in desktop based hardware. The ceiling keeps getting raised so to speak.



Intrinsic said:
drinkandswim said:

Mobile/handheld gaming does have three limiting factors- size/overheating/battery life. All three of those are solved by improving chip technology as you can genererate more quality images with less power. I do believe for sure 7nm tech will be able to generate xbox one graphics maybe even closer to PS4 base.

Here is the thin with this.... you are right. But maybe your timeframe or expectations are just off. 

I mean its common sense really, if at 20nm (which is what the X1 APU in the NS is based n we have around 0.5TF of GPU power, then a 7nm APU that takes up the same physical size should be capable of at least 1TF - 1.2TF of GPU power while being more efficient in the process. Which will Put a NS2 at around the power of the XB1.

But what you are missing here is that that isn't new. Technology always gets better The PSV could play PS1 games, the NS can mtch the PS3/360 and even run PS4/XB1 games. And the NS2 will run PS4/XB1 games a lot better than the NS can run them. 

But all that is moot when you consider that for every jump seen in a mobile based hardware, there is an equally big one seen in desktop based hardware. The ceiling keeps getting raised so to speak.

I just think if the gap is 1080P vs 4K, and you can play the same game at 1080P on the go with you, alot of gamers will take that option. I know i would at least want one mobile gaming device.