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Forums - Sales Discussion - Global Hardware 8 December 2018 (Smash Week)

Intrinsic said:
drinkandswim said:

Its true in that regard. Its just all we have seen so far in consoles is the extra power going towards the resolution jump from 1080P to 4K and FPS improvements. Which are great improvements, but there is a large audience for gaming on the go.

No. 

That is very very very far from all we have seen.

Resolution is NOT the only difference between PS3/360 (7th gen) games and PS4/XB1(8th gen) games. When comparing this new thing of having Pro consoles then yes the main differences are rez and FPS.

And when the PS5/XB4 is out, there will be games on those platforms that the current PS4/XB1 can't run And trust me the NS won't be able to run them either, and neither will the NS2.

But this also doesn't matter. Truth be told you can make your argument soundly without having to pit the NS or mobile in general against home consoles. There is a large audience for gaming on the go.... that has always been true and will continue being true. And the simple truth is that the gamers that prioritize mobility over home console gaming don't even care as much abut the kinda stuff the home gaming crowd cares about. Like not a single person bought the NS because it plays games at 1080p/900p. If its max rez was 720p it would have sold just the same. 

Thats good because im not comparing 360/PS3 to Xbox One/PS4. Im talking Xbox One to Xbox One X and PS4 to PS4 Pro since thats the only console jump in the last 6 years.



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CGI-Quality said:
Poweranimals said:
Why are these all out of order suddenly?

http://www.vgchartz.com/games/games.php?console=NS

Depends on the criteria with which you chose to search. For example, are you searching by Last Update or Release Date or ...?

I clicked on "NS" (Nintendo Switch) which usually lists them in order of sales. For some reason they're all out of whack now.



DonFerrari said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

As long as PS4 and XBO are getting ports, Switch will also get ports as the extra cost is more than outweighted by the extra sales. If the Next-Gen consoles release late next year, it would mean that support is guaranteed until at least 2023, at which point the Switch would be over 6 years old and sales should start to drop anyway by then. I'm expecting a successor for 2024-2025 anyway, so it wouldn't matter much in any which way.

When PS5/X2 get released ports for PS4 and X1 will drop within a year or two depending on the sales of the HW and SW. And the fact they are willing to go to the lower power PS4 because its 100M userbase (and X1 benefits because of close level of HW) will probably buy a lot of SW doesn't mean they will want to drop even further to get the lower sales of Switch on that same game (for the ones that are already selling good on Switch sure they may get it, but that isn't what we are talking here).

Switch already don't get most AAA 3rd party now, and won't get them on PS5/X2 gen with a Switch Pro even if Switch Pro gets same capacity of PS4/X1.

PS360 got ports until 2016, over 3 years after the release of this gen even though the PS4 was selling like hotcakes. They may get less ports, but the ports won't stop that early.

Switch is getting more and more ports. The publishers were wary after the colossal flop of the Wii U, and took a while before jumping on the Switch ship. EA for instance is reportingly porting the Frostbyte Engine to the Switch, thus allowing all their games to run there. Who would have expected a port of Mortal Kombat 11? The slew of Final Fantasy games announced during the Direct last year? The publishers know they missed the train early on and are now scrambling not to miss it again. In other words, more and more ports will come.

@bolded: That doesn't make much sense, and especially no business sense. Why would you port games for replaced hardware but not go a bit lower to garner clients of a console that's still selling, and most probably selling pretty well even by then? As long as games will be ported to the XBO, you can be damn sure they'll take the extra step to port to Switch too, as there's just more to gain there by then.



drinkandswim said:
Intrinsic said:

No. 

That is very very very far from all we have seen.

Resolution is NOT the only difference between PS3/360 (7th gen) games and PS4/XB1(8th gen) games. When comparing this new thing of having Pro consoles then yes the main differences are rez and FPS.

And when the PS5/XB4 is out, there will be games on those platforms that the current PS4/XB1 can't run And trust me the NS won't be able to run them either, and neither will the NS2.

But this also doesn't matter. Truth be told you can make your argument soundly without having to pit the NS or mobile in general against home consoles. There is a large audience for gaming on the go.... that has always been true and will continue being true. And the simple truth is that the gamers that prioritize mobility over home console gaming don't even care as much abut the kinda stuff the home gaming crowd cares about. Like not a single person bought the NS because it plays games at 1080p/900p. If its max rez was 720p it would have sold just the same. 

Thats good because im not comparing 360/PS3 to Xbox One/PS4. Im talking Xbox One to Xbox One X and PS4 to PS4 Pro since thats the only console jump in the last 6 years.

PS4/X1 launched in the end of 2013 so that was the jump from PS360 that happened in the last 6 years and the change in gen. Not sure why do you think Pro and X1X as mid gen refresh, made to play the same games with higher res defined to not break userbase because it wasn't a new gen (and in the case of PS4 only 2,25x more powerful than base console, not a gen jump at all).

Bofferbrauer2 said:
DonFerrari said:

When PS5/X2 get released ports for PS4 and X1 will drop within a year or two depending on the sales of the HW and SW. And the fact they are willing to go to the lower power PS4 because its 100M userbase (and X1 benefits because of close level of HW) will probably buy a lot of SW doesn't mean they will want to drop even further to get the lower sales of Switch on that same game (for the ones that are already selling good on Switch sure they may get it, but that isn't what we are talking here).

Switch already don't get most AAA 3rd party now, and won't get them on PS5/X2 gen with a Switch Pro even if Switch Pro gets same capacity of PS4/X1.

PS360 got ports until 2016, over 3 years after the release of this gen even though the PS4 was selling like hotcakes. They may get less ports, but the ports won't stop that early.

Yes sure, Fifa and other similar games. But go and look at the sale of most of these ports or even their relevance.

Switch is getting more and more ports. The publishers were wary after the colossal flop of the Wii U, and took a while before jumping on the Switch ship. EA for instance is reportingly porting the Frostbyte Engine to the Switch, thus allowing all their games to run there. Who would have expected a port of Mortal Kombat 11? The slew of Final Fantasy games announced during the Direct last year? The publishers know they missed the train early on and are now scrambling not to miss it again. In other words, more and more ports will come.

Mortal Kombat is a fighting game (one that have done good sales in the past on Nintendo console as well), final fantasy ports of old games not XV. If you really expect games of the caliber of RDR2 on Switch in the future you are for a down.

@bolded: That doesn't make much sense, and especially no business sense. Why would you port games for replaced hardware but not go a bit lower to garner clients of a console that's still selling, and most probably selling pretty well even by then? As long as games will be ported to the XBO, you can be damn sure they'll take the extra step to port to Switch too, as there's just more to gain there by then.

Because even now when X1 is relevant HW the Switch port is hard to do and cut a lot of corners. So when X1 is the one that needs a lot of cuts made to get made the Switch will need much more cuts and it may become ludicrous. There were Fifas being ported to PS2 while not being ported for Wii just to remind you.

They will make ports to consoles where they will profit enough.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
drinkandswim said:

Thats good because im not comparing 360/PS3 to Xbox One/PS4. Im talking Xbox One to Xbox One X and PS4 to PS4 Pro since thats the only console jump in the last 6 years.

PS4/X1 launched in the end of 2013 so that was the jump from PS360 that happened in the last 6 years and the change in gen. Not sure why do you think Pro and X1X as mid gen refresh, made to play the same games with higher res defined to not break userbase because it wasn't a new gen (and in the case of PS4 only 2,25x more powerful than base console, not a gen jump at all).

Bofferbrauer2 said:

PS360 got ports until 2016, over 3 years after the release of this gen even though the PS4 was selling like hotcakes. They may get less ports, but the ports won't stop that early.

Yes sure, Fifa and other similar games. But go and look at the sale of most of these ports or even their relevance.

Switch is getting more and more ports. The publishers were wary after the colossal flop of the Wii U, and took a while before jumping on the Switch ship. EA for instance is reportingly porting the Frostbyte Engine to the Switch, thus allowing all their games to run there. Who would have expected a port of Mortal Kombat 11? The slew of Final Fantasy games announced during the Direct last year? The publishers know they missed the train early on and are now scrambling not to miss it again. In other words, more and more ports will come.

Mortal Kombat is a fighting game (one that have done good sales in the past on Nintendo console as well), final fantasy ports of old games not XV. If you really expect games of the caliber of RDR2 on Switch in the future you are for a down.

@bolded: That doesn't make much sense, and especially no business sense. Why would you port games for replaced hardware but not go a bit lower to garner clients of a console that's still selling, and most probably selling pretty well even by then? As long as games will be ported to the XBO, you can be damn sure they'll take the extra step to port to Switch too, as there's just more to gain there by then.

Because even now when X1 is relevant HW the Switch port is hard to do and cut a lot of corners. So when X1 is the one that needs a lot of cuts made to get made the Switch will need much more cuts and it may become ludicrous. There were Fifas being ported to PS2 while not being ported for Wii just to remind you.

They will make ports to consoles where they will profit enough.

The point was i was never referring to the Xbox 360 gen to Xbox One gen jump. I said all we have seen recently is the extra power go towards a bump in resolution and performance.



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drinkandswim said:
DonFerrari said:

PS4/X1 launched in the end of 2013 so that was the jump from PS360 that happened in the last 6 years and the change in gen. Not sure why do you think Pro and X1X as mid gen refresh, made to play the same games with higher res defined to not break userbase because it wasn't a new gen (and in the case of PS4 only 2,25x more powerful than base console, not a gen jump at all).

The point was i was never referring to the Xbox 360 gen to Xbox One gen jump. I said all we have seen recently is the extra power go towards a bump in resolution and performance.

And btw the install base is still incorrect as most of the Xbox One X owners are hardcore gamers who owned the Xbox One, and same goes for the PS4 Pro. Although it is negligible for the Xbox One/Xbox One X Base since the Xbox One X is barely selling. 



drinkandswim said:
DonFerrari said:

PS4/X1 launched in the end of 2013 so that was the jump from PS360 that happened in the last 6 years and the change in gen. Not sure why do you think Pro and X1X as mid gen refresh, made to play the same games with higher res defined to not break userbase because it wasn't a new gen (and in the case of PS4 only 2,25x more powerful than base console, not a gen jump at all).

The point was i was never referring to the Xbox 360 gen to Xbox One gen jump. I said all we have seen recently is the extra power go towards a bump in resolution and performance.

Then you have no idea what a console gen is or what the purpose of the Pro and X1X.

Pro was made just to get the 4K TVs some use (mind you that Sony manufacture these TVs as well) and PSVR platform of choice. With the clear idea of not fracturing the userbase and having all games work on both consoles. So the easiest way to have games working on both consoles is just res and in some case some small gain on fps. Plus PS4Pro is quite a small jump in power from the base console.

X1X was made both to cover the "strongest console" MS wanted after losing in all fronts for 4 years plus the great gap between consoles and PCs. But also MS doesn't want to break the userbase mid-gen.

So your comparison is really pointless, you arbritated the no gen jump to talk about "recently all extra power go to res and fps". We haven't changed gen so there were nowhere else to go, even more when CPU was basically kept the same and GPU itself only got a double or triple count on CUs. No new architeture, no other big improvements in the HW parts as well. Plus no intention of making games that couldn't be made on base consoles.

When gen change for PS5 and Xbox next, you can be sure the jump will be much more noticeable than mid gen refreshes, and the AAA games made after the crossgen will be generally not possible on the older consoles (sure you can make several compromisses and make ports, but you could even do that today to launch a PS1 or PS2 game, just wouldn't look anywhere close).

You seem to have a good amount of information, but little knowledge or understanding on the subject.

About your other post above... so you think 1/5 to 1/4 of PS4 userbase is double dipping on the consoles? Because ever since PS4Pro launched more than 20% of the sales have been of the Pro, on Xbox even more than this (probably over 1/3) even though the pricegap have been over double (like 199 to 499).

You are trying to portray to many factual things the wrong way to make an analysis that would make even Patcher blush.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
drinkandswim said:

The point was i was never referring to the Xbox 360 gen to Xbox One gen jump. I said all we have seen recently is the extra power go towards a bump in resolution and performance.

Then you have no idea what a console gen is or what the purpose of the Pro and X1X.

Pro was made just to get the 4K TVs some use (mind you that Sony manufacture these TVs as well) and PSVR platform of choice. With the clear idea of not fracturing the userbase and having all games work on both consoles. So the easiest way to have games working on both consoles is just res and in some case some small gain on fps. Plus PS4Pro is quite a small jump in power from the base console.

X1X was made both to cover the "strongest console" MS wanted after losing in all fronts for 4 years plus the great gap between consoles and PCs. But also MS doesn't want to break the userbase mid-gen.

So your comparison is really pointless, you arbritated the no gen jump to talk about "recently all extra power go to res and fps". We haven't changed gen so there were nowhere else to go, even more when CPU was basically kept the same and GPU itself only got a double or triple count on CUs. No new architeture, no other big improvements in the HW parts as well. Plus no intention of making games that couldn't be made on base consoles.

When gen change for PS5 and Xbox next, you can be sure the jump will be much more noticeable than mid gen refreshes, and the AAA games made after the crossgen will be generally not possible on the older consoles (sure you can make several compromisses and make ports, but you could even do that today to launch a PS1 or PS2 game, just wouldn't look anywhere close).

You seem to have a good amount of information, but little knowledge or understanding on the subject.

About your other post above... so you think 1/5 to 1/4 of PS4 userbase is double dipping on the consoles? Because ever since PS4Pro launched more than 20% of the sales have been of the Pro, on Xbox even more than this (probably over 1/3) even though the pricegap have been over double (like 199 to 499).

You are trying to portray to many factual things the wrong way to make an analysis that would make even Patcher blush.

Microsoft has stated there will be no New Console generations going forward. They are trying not the split the base at all, which also means very few exclusives.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/microsoft-talks-xbox-scorpio-and-the-end-of-consol/1100-6442774/

"For us, we think the future is without console generations," Microsoft's Aaron Greenberg said.

It is you that doesn't seem to understand where the market is going, but one day you will figure it out. I perfectly understand what the PS4 Pro and Xbox One X do. The Xbox One X is complete failure and waste which hasn't sold anything. 



drinkandswim said:
DonFerrari said:

Then you have no idea what a console gen is or what the purpose of the Pro and X1X.

Pro was made just to get the 4K TVs some use (mind you that Sony manufacture these TVs as well) and PSVR platform of choice. With the clear idea of not fracturing the userbase and having all games work on both consoles. So the easiest way to have games working on both consoles is just res and in some case some small gain on fps. Plus PS4Pro is quite a small jump in power from the base console.

X1X was made both to cover the "strongest console" MS wanted after losing in all fronts for 4 years plus the great gap between consoles and PCs. But also MS doesn't want to break the userbase mid-gen.

So your comparison is really pointless, you arbritated the no gen jump to talk about "recently all extra power go to res and fps". We haven't changed gen so there were nowhere else to go, even more when CPU was basically kept the same and GPU itself only got a double or triple count on CUs. No new architeture, no other big improvements in the HW parts as well. Plus no intention of making games that couldn't be made on base consoles.

When gen change for PS5 and Xbox next, you can be sure the jump will be much more noticeable than mid gen refreshes, and the AAA games made after the crossgen will be generally not possible on the older consoles (sure you can make several compromisses and make ports, but you could even do that today to launch a PS1 or PS2 game, just wouldn't look anywhere close).

You seem to have a good amount of information, but little knowledge or understanding on the subject.

About your other post above... so you think 1/5 to 1/4 of PS4 userbase is double dipping on the consoles? Because ever since PS4Pro launched more than 20% of the sales have been of the Pro, on Xbox even more than this (probably over 1/3) even though the pricegap have been over double (like 199 to 499).

You are trying to portray to many factual things the wrong way to make an analysis that would make even Patcher blush.

Microsoft has stated there will be no New Console generations going forward. They are trying not the split the base at all, which also means very few exclusives.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/microsoft-talks-xbox-scorpio-and-the-end-of-consol/1100-6442774/

"For us, we think the future is without console generations," Microsoft's Aaron Greenberg said.

It is you that doesn't seem to understand where the market is going, but one day you will figure it out. I perfectly understand what the PS4 Pro and Xbox One X do. The Xbox One X is complete failure and waste which hasn't sold anything. 

I don't have all the stats on where the old PS4/Xbox One's have gone, but what I do know is everyone that I know that has upgraded still has their Xbox One sitting on the shelf. Which is where mine would sit if I upgraded, but I am holding off to see what the next generation brings. I am sure some people traded it in to stores, some handed them down to family members, and some might even be broken. 



Xbox One X sold approximately 4 million in it's first year counting 2 Holiday seasons. If you think that is good then I don't know what to tell you. That is pretty abysmal to me considering how much more power it has than the Xbox One. In my opinion they would have been better off splitting the base. Especially considering Xbox One X had a price cut in its first year and a major sale on Black Friday ($399 with a free game).

Last edited by drinkandswim - on 07 January 2019