Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Your thoughts on the Next Ninty Console

curl-6 said:
Soundwave said:

Sega CD had quite a bit of software, it's kind of irrelevant because there's never really be a hardware like Switch which was so suited to following the Apple model of hardware revisions. The business of the 80s/90s/and even 2000s is in the past. 15 Years ago there wouldn't be a PS2 Pro either. 

The Sega CD was a massive failure.

30 years ago when the majority of the market was kids, sure. 

The PC has had a similar kind of setup of never ending generation/no real generation dilineation for many decades too and has done well. Ask PC gamers if they would prefer the console model of being dictated when they can upgrade their setup and you would get a resounding "hell no, that would suck". 

If you're selling only to kids it can be a problem, but the industry has grown up since then, even Nintendo's fanbase is majority adult today. It's not the 1980s/early 1990s anymore. 



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Soundwave said:
curl-6 said:

The Sega CD was a massive failure.

30 years ago when the majority of the market was kids, sure. 

The PC has had a similar kind of setup of never ending generation/no real generation dilineation for many decades too and has done well. 

If you're selling only to kids it can be a problem, but the industry has grown up since then, even Nintendo's fanbase is majority adult today. 

There's still no indication that third parties would be any more willing to develop for a Switch Pro than they are for the current Switch.



Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series X will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

curl-6 said:
Soundwave said:

30 years ago when the majority of the market was kids, sure. 

The PC has had a similar kind of setup of never ending generation/no real generation dilineation for many decades too and has done well. 

If you're selling only to kids it can be a problem, but the industry has grown up since then, even Nintendo's fanbase is majority adult today. 

There's still no indication that third parties would be any more willing to develop for a Switch Pro than they are for the current Switch.

We'll see, you can't know that because you can't read the mind of every single third party developer. 

Embracing a PC like setup where there is no real generations personally I think is smart and in the *long run* consumers will also see it as a positive and not want to go back to the old model. And getting in on that "Pro money" model that Apple/Samsung/Sony/Microsoft all make good $$$$ from is something Nintendo is going to end up doing most likely regardless of a few people on an internet message board complaining about it.

The reality is a 2-3x style "Pro upgrade" of a Switch simply would allow a lot of games that would be a real pain in the ass or impossible to port to the old Switch to become reasonable feasible on the Pro model. Some third parties will likely bite on that proposition and Nintendo won't stop them. 



Soundwave said:
curl-6 said:

There's still no indication that third parties would be any more willing to develop for a Switch Pro than they are for the current Switch.

We'll see, you can't know that because you can't read the mind of every single third party developer. 

Embracing a PC like setup where there is no real generations personally I think is smart and in the *long run* consumers will also see it as a positive and not want to go back to the old model. And getting in on that "Pro money" model that Apple/Samsung/Sony/Microsoft all make good $$$$ from is something Nintendo is going to end up doing most likely regardless of a few people on an internet message board complaining about it.

The reality is a 2-3x style "Pro upgrade" of a Switch simply would allow a lot of games that would be a real pain in the ass or impossible to port to the old Switch to become reasonable feasible on the Pro model. Some third parties will likely bite on that proposition and Nintendo won't stop them. 

Well, actions speak louder than words and the actions of third parties speak loud and clear that they're not particularly enthusiastic about supporting Nintendo hardware. If they wouldn't support the base Switch in 2017, why would they support a Pro revision with an install base starting from zero in 2020?



Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series X will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

Mar1217 said:
Errorist76 said:

It’s ok...keep living in the past, if you must.

What you mean, I just think we need better VR systems before it would be truly worthwhile to make the jump. No harm there, I even an Oculus Go. I played games with VR but it clearly needs more time in the cockpot before maturity comes.

Oculus Go isn’t real VR. It lacks full 6DOF tracking.

There are dozens of great games already. In fact my GOTY is a PSVR game. I can’t hear this “it’s not there yet” talk anymore. It’s 2018 and people should stop fooling themselves.

At less than 200 dollars PSVR is more than worth it already, assuming one already has a PS4 of course.



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curl-6 said:
Soundwave said:

We'll see, you can't know that because you can't read the mind of every single third party developer. 

Embracing a PC like setup where there is no real generations personally I think is smart and in the *long run* consumers will also see it as a positive and not want to go back to the old model. And getting in on that "Pro money" model that Apple/Samsung/Sony/Microsoft all make good $$$$ from is something Nintendo is going to end up doing most likely regardless of a few people on an internet message board complaining about it.

The reality is a 2-3x style "Pro upgrade" of a Switch simply would allow a lot of games that would be a real pain in the ass or impossible to port to the old Switch to become reasonable feasible on the Pro model. Some third parties will likely bite on that proposition and Nintendo won't stop them. 

Well, actions speak louder than words and the actions of third parties speak loud and clear that they're not particularly enthusiastic about supporting Nintendo hardware. If they wouldn't support the base Switch in 2017, why would they support a Pro revision with an install base starting from zero in 2020?

The GameCube and Wii U (when it was market relevant) did get OK third party support. The people who are going to always look at the PS4/XB1 and ask "well OK, yeah we got this one game, but what about this other one" are never going to be happy anyway. Switch is something I bet a lot of devs like and it has 3rd party positive demographics (ie: it's not being sold on the back of casuals). 

The chipset is the only big bottleneck from *some* (not all, but some) third party games being on it. The Square-Enix president for example said he'd like every game on the Switch, it's a technical issue where the game has to be compromised too much or it would be too costly/resource intensive, but you remove that barrier and things change for some devs. 

And that's fine. Inevitably yes there will be some person crying on a message board that Switch Pro got Call of Duty but doesn't have Battlefield and EA are mean and that equals bad third party support because PS4/XB1 have Battlefield. Who cares. 

Because of the portable nature of the Switch it changes a lot of things too. A lot of people thumbed their nose at Wii U 3rd party ports because some of them weren't day and date with the PS3/360, but on Switch would anyone look down at say Witcher 3 coming out on it today? No. Because you can't play it on the go, on the Wii U plenty of perfectly good, enjoyable games got a "dur hur third parties suck, this is 2 months too late!" nonsense labelled on them. 

Last edited by Soundwave - on 01 December 2018

Soundwave said:
curl-6 said:

Well, actions speak louder than words and the actions of third parties speak loud and clear that they're not particularly enthusiastic about supporting Nintendo hardware. If they wouldn't support the base Switch in 2017, why would they support a Pro revision with an install base starting from zero in 2020?

The GameCube and Wii U (when it was market relevant) did get OK third party support. The people who are going to always look at the PS4/XB1 and ask "well OK, yeah we got this one game, but what about this other one" are never going to be happy anyway. Switch is something I bet a lot of devs like and it has 3rd party positive demographics (ie: it's not being sold on the back of casuals). 

The chipset is the only big bottleneck from *some* (not all, but some) third party games being on it. The Square-Enix president for example said he'd like every game on the Switch, it's a technical issue where the game has to be compromised too much or it would be too costly/resource intensive, but you remove that barrier and things change for some devs. 

And that's fine. Inevitably yes there will be some person crying on a message board that Switch Pro got Call of Duty but doesn't have Battlefield and EA are mean and that equals bad third party support because PS4/XB1 have Battlefield. Who cares. 

Thing is though, by 2020 the technical bar for multiplats will have risen so that a Switch Pro won't be any easier to port to in 2020 than the base Switch was in 2017, so if they didn't port to the latter, why would they port to the former?



Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series X will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

curl-6 said:
Soundwave said:

The GameCube and Wii U (when it was market relevant) did get OK third party support. The people who are going to always look at the PS4/XB1 and ask "well OK, yeah we got this one game, but what about this other one" are never going to be happy anyway. Switch is something I bet a lot of devs like and it has 3rd party positive demographics (ie: it's not being sold on the back of casuals). 

The chipset is the only big bottleneck from *some* (not all, but some) third party games being on it. The Square-Enix president for example said he'd like every game on the Switch, it's a technical issue where the game has to be compromised too much or it would be too costly/resource intensive, but you remove that barrier and things change for some devs. 

And that's fine. Inevitably yes there will be some person crying on a message board that Switch Pro got Call of Duty but doesn't have Battlefield and EA are mean and that equals bad third party support because PS4/XB1 have Battlefield. Who cares. 

Thing is though, by 2020 the technical bar for multiplats will have risen so that a Switch Pro won't be any easier to port to in 2020 than the base Switch was in 2017, so if they didn't port to the latter, why would they port to the former?

I don't really buy devs are gonna let go of the PS4/XB1 userbase so quickly even if PS5/XB2 arrive in 2020. Case in point, last gen really took like 2 years to get going, and this gen will probably be worse because you have the PS4 Pro/XB1X. Devs are not going to want to abandon that userbase, and if Switch can comfortably port PS4/XB1 without too much fuss, it can stand to benefit from ports for quite some time, probably well into 2022/2023 when devs get really serious about PS5/XB2 only games.

By which time Nintendo can release another model Switch that can better handle those types of games if they want. A new high end model every 3 years works well for Nintendo IMO, that's enough of a gap, but it's also not too large of a gap where they're stuck with some kind of hardware that really can't run any of the modern games. There's gonna be a new major hardware model for all of Playstation/XBox/Switch every 3 years now give or take I think, it's just going to become the new normal in the industry (I'm not talking just New 3DS or PS4 Slim type revisions either, those will also be there, but full on Pro/X model refreshes). 

Last edited by Soundwave - on 01 December 2018

Soundwave said:
curl-6 said:

Thing is though, by 2020 the technical bar for multiplats will have risen so that a Switch Pro won't be any easier to port to in 2020 than the base Switch was in 2017, so if they didn't port to the latter, why would they port to the former?

I don't really buy devs are gonna let go of the PS4/XB1 userbase so quickly even if PS5/XB2 arrive in 2020. Case in point, last gen really took like 2 years to get going, and this gen will probably be worse because you have the PS4 Pro/XB1X. Devs are not going to want to abandon that userbase, and if Switch can comfortably port PS4/XB1 without too much fuss, it can stand to benefit from ports for quite some time, probably well into 2022/2023 when devs get really serious about PS5/XB2 only games.

By which time Nintendo can release another model Switch that can better handle those types of games if they want. A new high end model every 3 years works well for Nintendo IMO, that's enough of a gap, but it's also not too large of a gap where they're stuck with some kind of hardware that really can't run any of the modern games. There's gonna be a new major hardware model for all of Playstation/XBox/Switch every 3 years now give or take I think, it's just going to become the new normal in the industry (I'm not talking just New 3DS or PS4 Slim type revisions either, those will also be there, but full on Pro/X model refreshes). 

A lot of those cross-gen ports will be just barely running on PS4/Xbone though, just like say MGS5, Middle Earth Shadow of Mordor, or Far Cry 4 just barely ran on PS3/360. And if they just barely run on PS4/Xbone, I wouldn't count on Switch Pro getting a look in.

Once again though, I think I'm gonna bow out of this discussion as I'm trying to be less negative on VGChartz.



Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series X will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

curl-6 said:
Soundwave said:

I don't really buy devs are gonna let go of the PS4/XB1 userbase so quickly even if PS5/XB2 arrive in 2020. Case in point, last gen really took like 2 years to get going, and this gen will probably be worse because you have the PS4 Pro/XB1X. Devs are not going to want to abandon that userbase, and if Switch can comfortably port PS4/XB1 without too much fuss, it can stand to benefit from ports for quite some time, probably well into 2022/2023 when devs get really serious about PS5/XB2 only games.

By which time Nintendo can release another model Switch that can better handle those types of games if they want. A new high end model every 3 years works well for Nintendo IMO, that's enough of a gap, but it's also not too large of a gap where they're stuck with some kind of hardware that really can't run any of the modern games. There's gonna be a new major hardware model for all of Playstation/XBox/Switch every 3 years now give or take I think, it's just going to become the new normal in the industry (I'm not talking just New 3DS or PS4 Slim type revisions either, those will also be there, but full on Pro/X model refreshes). 

A lot of those cross-gen ports will be just barely running on PS4/Xbone though, just like say MGS5, Middle Earth Shadow of Mordor, or Far Cry 4 just barely ran on PS3/360. And if they just barely run on PS4/Xbone, I wouldn't count on Switch Pro getting a look in.

Once again though, I think I'm gonna bow out of this discussion as I'm trying to be less negative on VGChartz.

Again it's not about having every third party title or screaming at third parties every time some game isn't on the system or is like 2 months late. Bottom line is a Pro model will allow a lot more kinds of games onto the Switch. If they double or triple the horsepower of that chip, the amount of games it can run increase by a lot and some devs will port some content in that case. And yes, some of them may even be older PS4/XB1 games and that's fine. There are several hundred decent games on the PS4/XB1 that would be fun to play on the go for a lot of people.

Even what the Wii U got was OK, the reason people got so down on that was because of the whole "well ... sniff ... this was on the PS3/360 already 2 months ago!", Need for Speed on Wii U was a perfectly fun game to play. COD + Batman + Assassin's Creed at the time were probably 3/6 or 7 top third party IP, that's not that bad at all. 

On the Switch situations like that will still be beneficial to the system because the portability is a game changer in the value of the software. People are enjoying Diablo III which is like a 5+ year old game on Switch, there's lots of content besides just the endless pissing match of "well you got this new big third party game, we need to match it!!!".