Forums - Gaming Discussion - 2 SKUs for Next Gen Launch Consoles?

Which SKU would you buy?

2TB Disc Drive SKU $499 14 46.67%
 
1TB NO Disc drive SKU $399 9 30.00%
 
Neither 7 23.33%
 
Total:30

I'd say PS waits until mid gen to try a discless model, if their going to. The real point is for people who need to save money. $399 and $499 isn't for those consumers. Typical year 1 and 2 buyers don't have that problem, and a discless console would be seen as a luxury, not a necessity.

Launch a $299 1080p/60 SKU, and a $499 4k/60 SKU. After 3 years, when the 1080p model is slimmed and dropped to $199, offer a third SKU at 1080p, but with no disc drive or mass storage drive for $99. Let the customer buy an external storage drive of whatever size they want for $50-$100. PS can offer a few sizes for convenience if they like.

At the same time, when the 4k/60 model is slimmed and dropped to $399, they could, also do the same thing an add a 4th SKU at 4k, but with no disc drive or mass storage drive for $299. Let the customer buy an external storage drive of whatever size they want for $50-$100. Digital should require much more storage space anyway.

This would give PS a full line up from top to bottom mid gen. $99, $199, $299, $399. While they could just launch all 4 SKU's right off the bat, $199, $299, $399, $499, I'd think it may be too confusing for some customers and may put people off, so it might be better to wait until mid gen once momentum has been built up.

There is also the possibility of keeping the disc drive and dropping the mass storage instead. Many casuals would need to learn one way or another, that some consoles don't have disc drives or all don't have mass storage. Design every SKU to retail at a $99 price point without mass storage, and let the customer buy an external of their choosing, instead of paying $50 extra for the console and it's absolute minimal storage limitations. Consoles don't like to sell for $49 prices anyway.

Just some suggestions if a lower price point is that necessary for marketing and sales next gen.



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Intrinsic said:
StriderKiwi said:

This.

And having worked at retail before, selling digital only titles is a pain. I hate to stereotype, but a lot of customers really are uninformed. And they always want to return EVERYTHING no matter the condition. Digital returns aren't an option. Plus there'd be less of a reason for customers to come to store to buy digital if they can just get it off the PS/Xbox store at home. I think the only reason they do that now is because the vast majority of retail shoppers purchase physical titles.

Disc-less consoles won't work yet but I wouldn't be surprised if Sony in particular tried that right out of the gate. They've been letting the PS4 success get to their heads, ignoring that Nintendo was basically a non-competitor most of the cycle and Xbox shat themselves right at the reveal. And the last two console cycles began with either Sony or Microsoft overestimating their appeal based on them "winning" the previous cycle. 

How has sony been letting the PS4 success get to their head? 

There's the whole censorship issue that got it's own forum thread. During the summer, there was the no cross-play thing for Fortnite which admittedly they did away with (after incessant backlash and BS PR-speak of why they "couldn't" do it.) They even went as far as to lock Epic game accounts registered on the PS4 to the PS4 so that Switch players couldn't use the skins/emotes/etc they had on PS4 on the Switch.  It took them months to reverse-course but at least they did.

Looking farther back, Sony's had their moments. I remember when they didn't allow Fallout 4 mods for similarly stupid reasons, and back during the latter half of the PS3 days, they pushed harder than most for the Online Passes in their games, only removing the feature once they say how it killed many sales for their exclusives.



Intrinsic said:
The_Liquid_Laser said:

The smart money for PS5 is to release in 2019 at a $399 price point (in NA) with a disc drive designed to read 100GB+ disks.  I still think they are going to lose to Switch regardless of what they do, but this can actually make them profitable unlike the PS3.

Dumb money is they go diskless, or overpower the system so that it's priced at $499+ or release after 2019.  Really dumb money is they get "creative" and bundle a VR set or some other expensive peripheral with every system.  They are going lose big if they do any of these things.  Same with Microsoft and their next system.

Ok that came out of nowhere......

Release in 2019? why?

Lose to switch? How? 

Release in 2019, because the PS4 is getting old and its due for another version.  6 years is the typical span between releases for a Sony console.

"Lose to Switch?  How?"  The short version is they could have a similar situation to PS3 vs. Wii.  Sony is not invincible.



The_Liquid_Laser said:
Intrinsic said:

Ok that came out of nowhere......

Release in 2019? why?

Lose to switch? How? 

Release in 2019, because the PS4 is getting old and its due for another version.  6 years is the typical span between releases for a Sony console.

"Lose to Switch?  How?"  The short version is they could have a similar situation to PS3 vs. Wii.  Sony is not invincible.

Why release in 2019 when the hardware they need to put in the box would cost more than it would if they released in 2020? Especially when yu consider that they are still about to have another over 17M selling year. So PS1 and 2 released after 6 years. PS3 and 4 after 7yrs. Sounds balanced to me.

The switch does 15M and is considered a success and sony's 5yr old outgoing console does 17M+ and its "losing"? And this isn't even about anyone being invincible. Your exact words were that you "you still think they (PS5) will lose to switch." And you got all that from sony messing up in 2006? If this is you being sure about something I would hate to see you when you have your doubts. 



Releasing a discless console is just a dumb idea, how much do a blu-ray drive cost sony/microsoft? 10$ is my guess. Same with releasing a only streaming box, it's a waste of time, so far this is just rumors so I would w8 if microsoft will really do something like this.

1 idea I have is also releasing a ps5+ or next xbox+, these consoles would have vapor chamber cooling and twice the hard drive storage space, but still exactly the same cpu/gpu performance. I like this idea as some people probably want a really quiet console or more storage.

Last edited by Trumpstyle - on 24 November 2018

6x master league achiever in starcraft2

Beaten Sigrun on God of war mode

Beaten DOOM ultra-nightmare with NO endless ammo-rune, 2x super shotgun and no decoys on ps4 pro.

1-0 against Grubby in Wc3 frozen throne ladder!!

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The_Liquid_Laser said:

The smart money for PS5 is to release in 2019 at a $399 price point (in NA) with a disc drive designed to read 100GB+ disks.  I still think they are going to lose to Switch regardless of what they do, but this can actually make them profitable unlike the PS3.

Dumb money is they go diskless, or overpower the system so that it's priced at $499+ or release after 2019.  Really dumb money is they get "creative" and bundle a VR set or some other expensive peripheral with every system.  They are going lose big if they do any of these things.  Same with Microsoft and their next system.

I agree with you that releasing a 399$ console in 2019 would be the best business strategy, according to two insiders at resetera (benji and Matt) this was Sonys plan, but looks like no longer. For what reason we don't know. Anyway we will probably get a more powerful console in 2020 for this reason :)



6x master league achiever in starcraft2

Beaten Sigrun on God of war mode

Beaten DOOM ultra-nightmare with NO endless ammo-rune, 2x super shotgun and no decoys on ps4 pro.

1-0 against Grubby in Wc3 frozen throne ladder!!

Intrinsic said:
The_Liquid_Laser said:

Release in 2019, because the PS4 is getting old and its due for another version.  6 years is the typical span between releases for a Sony console.

"Lose to Switch?  How?"  The short version is they could have a similar situation to PS3 vs. Wii.  Sony is not invincible.

Why release in 2019 when the hardware they need to put in the box would cost more than it would if they released in 2020? Especially when yu consider that they are still about to have another over 17M selling year. So PS1 and 2 released after 6 years. PS3 and 4 after 7yrs. Sounds balanced to me.

The switch does 15M and is considered a success and sony's 5yr old outgoing console does 17M+ and its "losing"? And this isn't even about anyone being invincible. Your exact words were that you "you still think they (PS5) will lose to switch." And you got all that from sony messing up in 2006? If this is you being sure about something I would hate to see you when you have your doubts. 

1)  PS4 released after 7 years, because the PS3 was so ambitious.  It released at a $500/$600 price tag in NA.  PS3 finally got a version at $400 in Nov. 2007.  This is 6 years before the PS4 released at $400.  Sony really is consistent at releasing every six years, assuming it releases at a comparable price.

2)  The success of the PS4 does not help the PS5 succeed at all.  Just like the best selling console, the PS2, did not help the PS3 succeed at all.



Intrinsic said:

I believe both sony and MS would prefer to do away with discs but neither of them have the balls to outright cut it out from the entire arena of their next gen platform, so they will stealth delete it and make it optional.

What do you all think?

 

Then surely it makes sense to do the discless version post launch? As an additional SKU as a test to see, instead of risking it at launch?



Trumpstyle said:

Releasing a discless console is just a dumb idea, how much do a blu-ray drive cost sony/microsoft? 10$ is my guess. Same with releasing a only streaming box, it's a waste of time, so far this is just rumors so I would w8 if microsoft will really do something like this.

1 idea I have is also releasing a ps5+ or next xbox+, these consoles would have vapor chamber cooling and twice the hard drive storage space, but still exactly the same cpu/gpu performance. I like this idea as some people probably want a really quiet console or more storage.

Quieter and more storage has never been a driving factor for sales. Ever.

A disc drive cost them $20-$25. 

Say a $399 console with a 1TB SSD and a disc drive is sold at a loss of $10. Taking out the disc drive will mean they aren't losing that $10 and instead making around $10-$15 profit on each box sold. Then adding the discdrive and doubling the SSD size and selling that for $499 puts them in a position where they make around $50 profit on each box.

The disc driveless box also pushes a mojority of buyers into the digital store where sony'gs margins are much higher on everything sold. 

twintail said:
Intrinsic said:

I believe both sony and MS would prefer to do away with discs but neither of them have the balls to outright cut it out from the entire arena of their next gen platform, so they will stealth delete it and make it optional.

What do you all think?

 

Then surely it makes sense to do the discless version post launch? As an additional SKU as a test to see, instead of risking it at launch?

Yup true...... doing it at launch will be too big a risk. 



Trumpstyle said:

Releasing a discless console is just a dumb idea, how much do a blu-ray drive cost sony/microsoft? 10$ is my guess. Same with releasing a only streaming box, it's a waste of time, so far this is just rumors so I would w8 if microsoft will really do something like this.

1 idea I have is also releasing a ps5+ or next xbox+, these consoles would have vapor chamber cooling and twice the hard drive storage space, but still exactly the same cpu/gpu performance. I like this idea as some people probably want a really quiet console or more storage.

I would guess that it would be cheaper for them to just make the console larger and use a better copper core heatsink with a bigger fan like Pro at $399 (XB1X $499). The fan should really be much larger in circumference like PS3 though, for lower rpms leading to quieter operation assuming reasonable quality, which would mean a deeper, wider, slim case. They could also design it so the PSU isn't behind the heatsink dealing with the APU heat, but separately beside it, so the APU and PSU would have their own smaller fans.

The_Liquid_Laser said:
Intrinsic said:

Why release in 2019 when the hardware they need to put in the box would cost more than it would if they released in 2020? Especially when yu consider that they are still about to have another over 17M selling year. So PS1 and 2 released after 6 years. PS3 and 4 after 7yrs. Sounds balanced to me.

The switch does 15M and is considered a success and sony's 5yr old outgoing console does 17M+ and its "losing"? And this isn't even about anyone being invincible. Your exact words were that you "you still think they (PS5) will lose to switch." And you got all that from sony messing up in 2006? If this is you being sure about something I would hate to see you when you have your doubts. 

1)  PS4 released after 7 years, because the PS3 was so ambitious.  It released at a $500/$600 price tag in NA.  PS3 finally got a version at $400 in Nov. 2007.  This is 6 years before the PS4 released at $400.  Sony really is consistent at releasing every six years, assuming it releases at a comparable price.

2)  The success of the PS4 does not help the PS5 succeed at all.  Just like the best selling console, the PS2, did not help the PS3 succeed at all.

PS was probably quite happy to get out of the PS3 era, much like how MS probably can't wait to get move well passed the XB1 era. MS no doubt didn't mind having 360 on the market for 8 years, just like PS probably wouldn't mind if they could get away with PS4 for 8 years. 360 and PS3 were designed for a solid 10 year lifespan though, and that's pretty clear based on the hardware, besides the cooling early on. PS4 should be getting replaced in 2019, based on the past, but there was a little backlash about PS4 not hitting 1080p consistently early on, and we've seen that a little with Pro and XB1X at sub 4k. If PS5 can't do full 4k at the right price in 2019, then maybe PS wants to make sure they deliver on that this time around and so wait until 2020. Not to mention Pro. Would XB1X in 2017, and a PS5 in 2018 or 2019, have really been big trouble for PS? If PS4 could have lasted 5 or 6 years, then how long can Pro last passed 2016? PS isn't exactly forcing people to stick with PS4, assuming you've already bought one, because Pro has only been another $100 if you want something better.

PS4 success does not guarantee the success of PS5, but it does help, if PS5 remains x86 and is affordable. PS1 was a great console with new media tech and a reasonable price, with some competition. PS2 was mostly BC at launch, with new media tech, and for a reasonable price, with little competition. PS3 was BC at launch, with new media tech, but was way too expensive and had really tough competition. PS4 wasn't BC, used existing media tech, was an affordable price, had some competition, and a mid gen upgrade. The one thing that stands out about those 4 systems, is that PS1, PS2, and PS4, had a worthy overall games line up, where as PS3 suffered greatly. If PS5 remains on PS4's path, and just takes bigger steps, like offering some 'native' level of BC, and maybe 4k media tech, it'll do just fine. The biggest threat to PS5 will either be their ego, or the competition. Maybe both.

Last edited by EricHiggin - on 25 November 2018