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Forums - Politics Discussion - 13 Dead in Shooting in Thousand Oaks California

EricHiggin said:
sundin13 said:

Global cooling has never been an accepted or dominant scientific hypothesis, but even if it had been, we are not talking about an extremely complicated aspect of our planet involving literally hundreds of variables that we knew little about several decades ago. It is simply the question "How often do people die when they are shot". There is no equivalence between the two. They are not remotely the same thing and bringing them up in the same breath seems to be little more than desperation to justify a point in the face of evidence that you continually refuse to acknowledge.

Beyond that, again, there is a different level of statistical significance between one event and FOURHUNDREDTHOUSAND events. One is going to be just a tiny bit more representative than the other. This point is absolute nonsense, man.

As for what the point in talking about this is, I feel like it is fairly self evident. I feel like you are getting hung up on the radical idea that gun control doesn't mean "taking everyone's guns". There are about a million different steps between where we are now and that point, some of which I support and some of which I don't. That said, the point in this discussion is to counter the "yeah, but what about knives" response that tends to come up whenever someone talks about gun control. Knives are significantly less deadly than firearms, so even if there was a 1:1 replacement, we would still typically be better off in terms of crime outcomes.

There were people back then who were sure they were correct even if it wasn't a solid majority, and they were proven to be wrong. There are people who are convinced that guns should be more regulated or banned, and some that are not. Even more recently, they found their climate changes predictions were way off and created new ones that seem even more dire than before. I'm not asking for why global warming or cooling is happening, just a yes or no, just like I'm not asking about how these people were injured specifically, and why etc. We also don't know whether or not these people should be considered directly killed by the gun because you don't know for sure if another medical team/facility could have treated them in a manner that aloud them to live. What if harsh weather slowed the trip to the hospital and that much needed time lost caused the death? You could go down the same rabbit hole either way if you really wanted to.

One event that potentially implicates 7.7 billion human beings, every last person on earth, plus the other living creatures, vs 400,000?

Knives show based on the stats presently available, to be less deadly, yes. That isn't a very strong argument though because of the "whatabout" factor. Nobody really knows what will happen to the rate of violence, or stabbings, or other unanticipated weapons that could be created and or used if guns are heavily restricted or banned. A lot like climate change. Nobody really knows what's going to happen for sure, whether we do something about it or not. We have stats that give us an idea, but that's proven so far to only be a fraction of what is necessary to factually know, if we ever really can, taking every single thing related to the weather as well as harmful violent acts with weapons into account.

You've devolved to the point in this discussion where you are arguing information is meaningless and that we can't really know anything, that one event is more meaningful than hundreds of thousands, and you are proudly using a fallacy (whataboutism) as a defense. Have a good day on your flat earth.



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sundin13 said:
EricHiggin said:

There were people back then who were sure they were correct even if it wasn't a solid majority, and they were proven to be wrong. There are people who are convinced that guns should be more regulated or banned, and some that are not. Even more recently, they found their climate changes predictions were way off and created new ones that seem even more dire than before. I'm not asking for why global warming or cooling is happening, just a yes or no, just like I'm not asking about how these people were injured specifically, and why etc. We also don't know whether or not these people should be considered directly killed by the gun because you don't know for sure if another medical team/facility could have treated them in a manner that aloud them to live. What if harsh weather slowed the trip to the hospital and that much needed time lost caused the death? You could go down the same rabbit hole either way if you really wanted to.

One event that potentially implicates 7.7 billion human beings, every last person on earth, plus the other living creatures, vs 400,000?

Knives show based on the stats presently available, to be less deadly, yes. That isn't a very strong argument though because of the "whatabout" factor. Nobody really knows what will happen to the rate of violence, or stabbings, or other unanticipated weapons that could be created and or used if guns are heavily restricted or banned. A lot like climate change. Nobody really knows what's going to happen for sure, whether we do something about it or not. We have stats that give us an idea, but that's proven so far to only be a fraction of what is necessary to factually know, if we ever really can, taking every single thing related to the weather as well as harmful violent acts with weapons into account.

You've devolved to the point in this discussion where you are arguing information is meaningless and that we can't really know anything, that one event is more meaningful than hundreds of thousands, and you are proudly using a fallacy (whataboutism) as a defense. Have a good day on your flat earth.

The fact you assume I think the Earth is flat based on what I've said, probably about climate change not being nailed down quite yet, makes me assume you must consider climate change to be completely untrue, like the Earth being flat. Hard to make a point if you don't believe in it at all, which would be good to know during the conversation.



EricHiggin said:
sundin13 said:

You've devolved to the point in this discussion where you are arguing information is meaningless and that we can't really know anything, that one event is more meaningful than hundreds of thousands, and you are proudly using a fallacy (whataboutism) as a defense. Have a good day on your flat earth.

The fact you assume I think the Earth is flat based on what I've said, probably about climate change not being nailed down quite yet, makes me assume you must consider climate change to be completely untrue, like the Earth being flat. Hard to make a point if you don't believe in it at all, which would be good to know during the conversation.

Naw, I believe he just figured out you are jerking his chain.  I know I have read enough of your arguments to come to that conclusion.



Was it already known he had ptsd, and if it was known then why was he able to carry a gun or did he get it in a nonlegal way ?

Former military workers and also current and even those in training should get more mental health checkups and support and i do not know if it exist's but they should get a good insurance for it too.



SpokenTruth said:
Immersiveunreality said:

Was it already known he had ptsd, and if it was known then why was he able to carry a gun or did he get it in a nonlegal way ?

Former military workers and also current and even those in training should get more mental health checkups and support and i do not know if it exist's but they should get a good insurance for it too.

The US is more than willing to fund a war but not take care for the troops when they return.  In fact, congress has reduced their access to support and services and is trying to cut it even more.  To congress, they only care while you can fight.  After that, they no longer give a damn.  And the people don't hold congress accountable enough.

For a country that screams patriotism at the top of its lungs every chance it gets and ties that patriotism to its military, it sure has a horrible way of actively demonstrating that patriotism.

It's a double-edged sword though.
Other nations pay their military staff significantly less than the USA.

They also get allot less benefits after leaving the military... So those countries can get away with a military budget that provides more bang-for-your-buck capability.

I mean... Take China for example, they pay their Soldiers peanuts... And you can bet they don't get much in the way of support or benefits... And it would be worrying if their budget ever matched the USA's because of those two points.

But you are right... Considering the Far-Right preaches Patriotism at the top of their lungs... They sure do like to cut "services" like Emergency, Military etc' at every chance they get, happens here as well.
But it also becomes an opportunity for agencies to look at various ways that they can improve efficiencies.

However... If they are just making cuts to services... So they can give tax cuts to the rich and big business... Call them out on it. Haha



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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The US doesn't really care about helping it's people it cares about making profits off at war. Hopefully with progressives like AOC in office she will force the US to give a damn about the people and the sit-in at Nancy Pelosi's office is just a start.



Proud to be a Californian.