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Forums - Gaming Discussion - The human cost of Red Dead Redemption 2 (Eurogamer)

freebs2 said:
contestgamer said:
I hate the complaining about this. They should be worked like they are, because that's why their games are so good. I want to enjoy the very best game that's possible to make, and if there are a few casualties along the way to make that happen then that's just the nature of the beast. They're not forced to have this job and they can quit if they don't like it. People should be more concerned about getting the absolute very best product possible than about the working hours of strangers they'll never even meet. Strangers that can get another line of work if they dont like their current one.

Point made. They're strangers, it's their problem.

Then again, you're a stranger too. Why should anyone give two shits about your opinion?

They shouldnt. But I'm glad they're being worked and anyone that thinks RDR2 is an amazing game should be too. 

ResilientFighter said:
contestgamer said:
I hate the complaining about this. They should be worked like they are, because that's why their games are so good. I want to enjoy the very best game that's possible to make, and if there are a few casualties along the way to make that happen then that's just the nature of the beast. They're not forced to have this job and they can quit if they don't like it. People should be more concerned about getting the absolute very best product possible than about the working hours of strangers they'll never even meet. Strangers that can get another line of work if they dont like their current one.

So you love the idea of humiliating the poor in their jobs since they can quit anytime if they don't like it as long as you can buy your merchandise. So much empathy!

Yeah well where's your empathy for people that want the very best quality product? Had they worked half the hours and we got a 94 metacritic game instead I'd bet we wouldn't see an ounce of empathy from you for fans of the game.

Mandalore76 said:
contestgamer said:

If they dont like the work, they can quit. Anyone working on the video games I enjoy should be fully committed to doing whatever it takes to deliver me that 97 rated MC game.

You probably don't even see the irony in saying the people who were responsible for making your 97 rated game should quit.  Because, they are the people who made the game.  Not the studio with the crappy schedules, piss poor time management, and shitty business practices.  It was the people.

It's the hours plus the people. Those people without these hours wouldn't deliver the same quality game. They'd be developing the kind of games every other publisher is. If they quit R* can find someone else that'll be willing to put in the 100 hours. I'm not going to sacrifice an ounce of quality or delays for these people who can find another job if they dont like it.



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ResilientFighter said:
Majin-Tenshinhan said:

Are you seriously using "your avatar wouldn't agree with that if they existed" as a counterargument against someone?

Not in an offensive manner at all, just that I find it strange someone who is far on one political spectrum would choose their avatar to be a character who is leaning in the opposite direction. If thats not allowed simply message me that rule i wasn't aware :)

I'm just a writer, not a moderator, don't worry. I was just shocked at that being a counterargument.



Jim Sterling's video on the subject was good and it's shame things like this exist, there's money to be made but they don't consider certain things. I would have quit long ago if the work was too much in any department. When I start my current job, it was a 9 to 5.30 job but we did a lot of overtime and paid next to no more than normal wage for it but over time as my company expanded and even though the work increased, we got more efficient and now I world 9 to 5.30 but only a 37.5 hour week and I arrive at 9 and leave on time.

The gaming industry needs this but I think with increase in technology, demands on the games are also high but I wouldn't care if a game looked like ME2 now as long as it was a good game.



Hmm, pie.

Majin-Tenshinhan said:
ResilientFighter said:

Not in an offensive manner at all, just that I find it strange someone who is far on one political spectrum would choose their avatar to be a character who is leaning in the opposite direction. If thats not allowed simply message me that rule i wasn't aware :)

I'm just a writer, not a moderator, don't worry. I was just shocked at that being a counterargument.

I wasn't saying it was a counterargument lmao

Just pointing out the nonsense of idolizing a character that doesn't stand for archaic backwards ideals. It would be like a lgbt hating person with a freddie mercury avatar or a sjw with a vote trump avatar.



CaptainExplosion said:
Johnw1104 said:

I suspect these accusations all pale before the torturous, partly-self-imposed workload Sakurai takes on lol

Pretty sure employment laws are a lot more lax in Japan though.

Oh please, Sakurai's a genius who pours his heart and soul into what he does. Rockstar is just a slave labor camp, at least from what we've been hearing.

Ohh... you think Nintendo treats their employees noticeably better. Well... perhaps you should look into that.



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CaptainExplosion said:
potato_hamster said:

Ohh... you think Nintendo treats their employees noticeably better. Well... perhaps you should look into that.

Sure, but I bet they don't force them into unpaid overtime and say things like "If you don't like it, go work for fucking Tesco.".

Well I mean... I don't think there's Tescos in Japan.

I've actually had similar things said to me at 3 different game development studios. I don't think you quite realize what an exception it would be for the majority of  a game studio's staff to feel like they had job security.



CaptainExplosion said:
potato_hamster said:

Ohh... you think Nintendo treats their employees noticeably better. Well... perhaps you should look into that.

Sure, but I bet they don't force them into unpaid overtime and say things like "If you don't like it, go work for fucking Tesco.".

CaptainExplosion I see you are not aware of working conditions in Japan, Its notorious so much so theres a Japanese term for it, karoshi, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kar%C5%8Dshi

Working long unpaid overtime is common in Japan



Always sad to see employees treated like this by the products I/we love. Sadly, I use Apple products myself (yes, Samsung users, I know “they suckz!!” let’s move on shall we?) and fully understand the harsh working conditions and poor compensation the items I love are probably putting the ppl that make them. I think about this everytime I upgrade every year. I tell myself that my individual purchase or lack thereof will not change the practices of a company that sells billions. In the overall scope of things, what I do or do not do is insignificant, so why worry about others. I know this isn’t really true (as this same thought is why the big corp succeed in doing this in the first place). Perhaps I am bring selfish. No, I know I am. I really can’t offer any justification for this, this is just me. I am playing RDR2 as soon as I am done typing this. I am perhaps too old to change and too selfish to care enough to do so.

That said, they should really protect themselves from this practice. Business don’t learn when you don’t create expensive precedences. Someone has to stand up (and be black listed) and sue these companies for better conditions for everyone else. This will likely be the end of their career, but companies will never learn and the vast majority of consumers will never sacrifice their conveniences for the sake of some stranger far away as they feel that they have their own problems to deal with.



I respect RDR2 and thank the employees for the masterpiece they created but human rights should never be broken. A happy work place is a good workplace.
Things some people tend to miss. Its acts like this that ruin companies. MS already poached the lead director from Rockstar to work for there newly created studio. Staff will jump ship and Rockstar could possibly fall if they continue this method on making games.
Reason i bring this up is i saw the exact same thing happen to Rare in the N64 days. During the development of Perfect Dark, Rare staff were leaving the company. Rare were also guilty of doing the same thing in the past by overworking there teams, and look how that panned out for Rare in the long run.
Quality should never be a human sacifice.



DonFerrari said:

Cerebralbore101 said:

They are salaried employees, so they probably make less per hour than working at a gas station. Nobody chooses to work 100 hour workweeks. They are forced to. Why don't they quit and get a different job you say? Well, student loan debt is a hell of a thing, especially for students that went to a respectable game school like Digipen. And there's no other jobs out there these days. The AA industry died out years ago, so all that's left is AAA jobs with insane workweeks, and 100 people applying for that 1 videogame job. 

I'm pretty sure salaried employees doesn't earn the same in all jobs even within the same state. And it is breach of contract to contract someone for a certain hourly wage and pay for just half the hours worked, easy lawsuit. And on a country like USA with 3% unemployment rate I find it very hard to believe you can't find a job.

Salaried and hourly wage are not the same thing in the USA. If you are salaried here, that means you don't get paid extra for working extra hours. 

Yeah, a job is easy to find. A job that pays well enough to pay back your insane student loan debt on the other hand is hard to come by. And video-game schools are extra expensive, since they are almost all private for-profit schools.