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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Why is Sony being left out of the Streaming Future Conversation? Why are we even having it?

I don't know about the Google service. But, my understanding is that the MS service has evolved from basic, straight streaming. I think they're doing some of the work on your local device, thereby greatly reducing lag and improving overall performance without using unacceptably large amounts of data. It's a sort of hybrid of streaming and local processing. Sony's service is just streaming, where essentially everything is handled by a remote device. This is the technology that gives us intolerable lag and low fidelity.

So, to the extent that my understanding is correct, this would mean that the new services are substantially different, and (in theory, at least) substantially better than PS Now.



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It's because PS Now is real and can't hide its limitations, while Google and MS look great on paper and promises to solve everything.

Server location has influence on your latency, however your isp stability is still more important. Better compression also asks more from the client and will add more lag. Higher quality visuals require more data which will add more lag and be more vulnerable to instabilities. Offering newer games at higher resolutions requires more and faster hardware, meaning less resources to serve more people at the same time. In the end it needs to be an affordable business. Lower quality, older games, or higher priced subscriptions.

Google and MS can promise a lot but will run into the same limits as any other service.



VAMatt said:
I don't know about the Google service. But, my understanding is that the MS service has evolved from basic, straight streaming. I think they're doing some of the work on your local device, thereby greatly reducing lag and improving overall performance without using unacceptably large amounts of data. It's a sort of hybrid of streaming and local processing. Sony's service is just streaming, where essentially everything is handled by a remote device. This is the technology that gives us intolerable lag and low fidelity.

So, to the extent that my understanding is correct, this would mean that the new services are substantially different, and (in theory, at least) substantially better than PS Now.

Do you have any information on that? Can't find anything that says that anywhere.

It seems MS is doing the exact same thing Sony has been doing:

We’ve enabled compatibility with existing and future Xbox games by building out custom hardware for our datacenters that leverages our years of console and platform experience. We’ve architected a new customizable blade that can host the component parts of multiple Xbox One consoles, as well as the associated infrastructure supporting it.
https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2018/10/08/project-xcloud-gaming-with-you-at-the-center/

Starting in 2019, by the time it's readily available it's last gen games again....

MS is looking into smarter ways to compress  game video accounting for static huds and other repeating elements to reduce bandwidth. Nothing to reduce latency though. I guess it would decrease latency a little bit by having less data to transmit. Don't expect wonders however, video compression is based on only transmitting differences while during the heat of battle a stable image matters most. It's nice when it can remember the map screen or other elements to switch quickly, yet when you're in a big fight all that goes out the window and you need all the bandwidth you can get.



Enemy said:

I think you have your timeline mixed up. PS Now was created to preserve the PS3 legacy software since the cell processor made it difficult to emulate.

It was more or less because that it is difficult to monetize backwards compatibility, rather than the Cell being difficult to emulate.
Playstation 3 emulation efforts have actually been developing at a brisk pace on the PC.

Enemy said:
The PS2 and PS3 were both backwards compatible but the changes in technology, business models, and the cell made it difficult for the PS4 to run PS3 games including the PS2 classics purchased on the PS3 store. PS2 was a disk only console. PS Now was Sony's way of future proofing as well as offering a Netflix style rental service. Sony was going to evolve the PS Now service over time. They were always going to add PS4 games because PS3 games are not enough to keep the service growing.

Um. What? The Playstation 3 made the Playstation 2 difficult to emulate? Am I reading this right?
Importing Playstation 2 purchase from the Playstation 3 wouldn't have been a hard task you know.

Enemy said:
Xbox One was not backwards compatible with Xbox 360 in the beginning and Microsoft had no intentions of adding the feature.

False. Microsoft multi-OS approach was perfect for backwards compatibility.
Microsoft also supported a few Xbox 360 hardware features in the Xbox One chip, meaning Microsoft had plans of going down this route from the very beginning before the Xbox One launched.

Enemy said:
Well, I don't know what to tell you because that is not the history I've seen. Journalists have been defending the Xbox One since it launched. For the most part they give Microsoft a pass on most things other than the things that they can't hide such as the exclusives issue.

Disagree. Journalists belittled Microsofts Kinect, Higher Price and Reduced power relative to the Playstation 4... And for good reason.

Enemy said:
The last year has basically been an anti-Sony campaign because Sony didn't want to open the gates to Nintendo and Microsoft. Microsoft received passes over the past 13 years for blocking cross play with PC.

Sony deserved the criticism it has gotten.
Microsoft also deserved criticism it has gotten.

Enemy said:

I doubt that. When Xbox One launched, when asked about Xbox One not being backwards compatible with the Xbox 360, Don Mattrick and other Microsoft executives stated backwards compatibility was not something people use (only 5% use it) and if you have backwards compatibility, you're just backwards. They downplayed it.

The amount of people using a feature today has no bearing on Microsoft's plans pre-launch of the Xbox One console.
Do not accuse other posters of being backwards please.

But because you are denying it... Here is some evidence that the Xbox One has hardware support for a few Xbox 360 features.
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-xbox-one-x-back-compat-how-does-it-actually-work

And I quote: "Xbox 360 hardware design are indeed built into the Xbox One processor - specifically, support for texture formats and audio. "It's what makes this sort of possible for us, because then we can take all of those shaders that we collect and we can package them and all the Enlightenments, and then we just go through and we do actual performance playthroughs to determine that the emulator is executing everything right.""

Enemy said:

Two years later, they announce Xbox 360 BC and begin to take shots at Sony and PS Now even though Sony stated PS Now was never supposed to be a replacement for bc. If Xbox One wasn't losing or if PS Now didn't exist they would've have worked on Xbox 360 bc. I think they started working on Xbox 360 bc as a PR move and because they needed a way to add more games to Games With Gold and pave the way for Game Pass to compete with PS Now.

Evidence says you are wrong though.

Enemy said:

There are many more examples besides the asinine cross play anti-Sony campaign. This very topic is an example. There are definitely fraudulent journalists out there with a clear agenda to promote Microsoft products but it's not really about what media outlets "favor". I'm not necessarily saying they favor one or the other.

All Journalists generally have a preference, perhaps you should try looking towards more unbiased sources of information that don't engage in console war rhetoric?

Enemy said:

It really doesn't seem like the media outlets "favor" the PS4 with the way these media outlets behave. The gaming media has been extremely kind to Microsoft all things considered. It's the sales that haven't been kind.

Most outlets have provided criticism where criticism has been due.
Most outlets are also a business, so they need to stylize a heading to draw clicks and thus money in.

Enemy said:

Just because many gaming centric news outlets make money doesn't make them actual journalists.  The reason why they make money is because of viewers and ads. Just because people click on the articles doesn't mean they're influencing purchasing decisions.

Well. You are not wrong. - However... Hows about not paying attention to the media?

Enemy said:

The PS4 base model limits Remote Play to 720p probably because of a limitation put in place b y Sony for technical reasons such as RAM and unrelated to the quality of the actual service that you claimed was inferior. The PS4 Pro is capped at 1080p for Remote Play. Both models scale dynamically based on connection quality.

There is zero technical reason why they should be capped at 720P or 1080P on either system when games will happily run natively higher than that in most instances.

Enemy said:

The Xbox One offers 1080p 60fps but we know it struggles to hit that standard in games much less streaming them. The 1080p 60 fps option on Xbox One seems more like just a marketing point or check box.

What the Xbox One runs games at has zero bearing on Streaming on the Playstation 4.

With that in mind... The Playstation 4 is also not guaranteed to run every game at 1080P 60fps either. - So going by your own logic, does that mean 1080P 60fps is also a marketing point/check box feature on the Playstation 4?

SvennoJ said:
Server location has influence on your latency

The laws of Physics literally comes into play.

SvennoJ said:
Better compression also asks more from the client and will add more lag. Higher quality visuals require more data which will add more lag and be more vulnerable to instabilities. Offering newer games at higher resolutions requires more and faster hardware, meaning less resources to serve more people at the same time. In the end it needs to be an affordable business. Lower quality, older games, or higher priced subscriptions.

Google and MS can promise a lot but will run into the same limits as any other service.

Depends on the encoding algorithms in use and the hardware support to go with it.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Maybe Sony need to pay for websites to write positive articles on it? Ps now has mega potential.



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To be fair, Playstation Now still feels like an experiment. It's been around, but it never caught wind like Sony's other products.

So when people talk about these other companies, they are probably sensationalizing the new initiatives they have without thinking too much of the past, because streaming games from the cloud has yet to take off in a meaninglful way.

I'm sure Sony will be part of that discussion if they can make their service newsworthy, but they have yet to do that. And that's coming from a fourth generation Playstation console owner. It's a similar case with Dreamcast and online gaming. They were too ahead of their time, and because of that they couldn't give a worthwhile experience to the early adapters.



I think it is because Microsoft and Google have some of the best server's in the industry, more experience and invested more into their cloud infrastructure. If google's Assassin's creed stream is legit, that is way more promising than anything psnow has done so far.



I remember for about 15 or so years Nintendo being left out of almost every gaming discussion and article. Welcome to the party.



Sonys Streaming service as well as Nintendos are not world wide, while Xbox is. Its really hard to bring up something majority dont have access to.
I am sure next gen they will offer it to more countries but as of right now, its sort of niche.



Western media doesn't care about Sony. I kid, idk why.