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RolStoppable said:
KLAMarine said:

Big difference to interpret words, actions, and intentions incorrectly and another to actually rape someone.

Rol, you some funny guy or something?

Not really that much of a difference. In both cases the blame gets diverted away from the culprits and towards the victims.

The biggest difference is that rape is physical and psychological harm while the response to kneeling during the anthem was restricted to psychological terror like shaming and slander.

Except to misinterpret someone is not a crime, it's just human error. A gesture like kneeling is likely to invite misinterpretation due to its ambiguity.

Rape IS a crime.



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I'm mostly amused at how conservatives are so fucking outraged about one of the tamest protest movements I have ever seen.
It looks like what they have done has worked far better than anyone expected.

Anyway, it sounds like Republicans are buying Nikes to cut them up or burn them. Their sales have gone up by 31%. Their current market cap at 133B is an all-time high.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

KLAMarine said:
EricHiggin said:

Glad to know Serena is fighting for equality. Can't wait to see when she finally get's her way and woman's matches have sets added to equal the men's...

Serena is fighting for equality. In a list of most-expensive tennis fines, she came first in a list filled with white men.

https://www.therichest.com/rich-list/the-biggest/10-of-the-biggest-fines-in-the-history-of-tennis/?v=8&n=f

Granted, this list is probably outdated but as far as it's concerned, people like Venus Williams and other women have some major catching up to do...

So in a game where your expected to act in a proper civilized manner (much like life in general), she's the worst offender of all time, and she expects people to listen to her? That's like saying the worst most vile criminal in the world is fighting for human rights, so we should all listen to them with our undivided attention. The villain obviously knows best.

If your looking to point out how unfair things are, being the best at being the worst is not how you go about it. Complaining about those white men who get away with everything, all 9 of them, makes waaaay too much sense when she's number 1.  LOL



Machiavellian said:
Rab said:

Australians aren't any more racist than other people, and our newspaper cartoonists are very even handed when it comes to caricatures, I imagine in the US with your history and heightened sensibilities around race that that cartoon would be triggering, that's on you, but here in Australia it's just a caricature i.e. 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtM3jKy79IE  2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfHcYMLAkOM 

Australians obviously do have sensibilities around behaviour and manners, Serena triggered that in us, we wonder how the Umpire must feel being treated like that, accused of so much, having his job threatened by her when he only played by the rules and did his job, I image its been dreadful for him and his family, in Australia we would like to see Serena apologize to him to help make things right, restore some of her dignity and his, if she then wants to bring up other issues regarding tennis then she can do so without ruining a guys career, breakdown on what actually occurred i.e. 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0s7afcVnPI 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYsbhMWccMA

Lol, well if you call making Naomi a white blond blue eye woman even handed then I have a bridge to sell you.  The picture has a lot of symbolism in it but one thing for sure is you have a picture of a huge black woman jumping up and down looking like one of those nice sambo caricatures while you present the other person as this innocent white blond blue eye woman.  No, I have no clue about racism in Australia, only thing I do know is that you tried to present the Australian press in a light as if they are innocent of any type of stereotypical viewpoint while supporting a stereotypical view point. 

People like to throw the word racist around alot put I will be the first to say that everything isn't racist but stereotypical is something totally different.  What that cartoon says is you have a certain viewpoint towards black woman.  First you made her look fat, next you gave her some really nice big lips, then you suggest the opponent is a white blue eyed white woman suggesting she should give the angry black woman the win.  Whether you understand the stereotypical representation made or not doesn't excuse that you fell right into that stereotypical viewpoint.

Where are the blue eyes in that cartoon? Naomi also has a blonde ponytail in real life, Serena is huge and she also has big lips (These little facts that you ignore show me your bias immediately)

That cartoon is a caricature, all features are exaggerated, your deliberately blowing this out to suit your agenda, which will only backfire on race relations, everyone should be fair game for satire, I find you very disingenuous and will not engage with you further  

 

Some of his other art, one of Amanda Vanstone an Australian politician, he has done our past Prime Minister of Australia  with huge ears to exaggerate his features, no one blinked an eye, he has many more examples, even of Australian tennis players with hugely exaggerated features   

Don't just assume your way through life  

Last edited by Rab - on 12 September 2018

RolStoppable said:
KLAMarine said:

Except to misinterpret someone is not a crime, it's just human error. A gesture like kneeling is likely to invite misinterpretation due to its ambiguity.

Rape IS a crime.

Not sure about the USA, but here slander and libel are crimes that can lead to conviction and fines. The misinterpretation of Kaepernick's actions wasn't a misunderstanding, but deliberate.

As someone who has followed the NFL for years, Kaepernick's reason for kneeling during the anthem was clearly explained by sports reporters when he started doing it. The only way to misinterpret it is if someone purposefully wants it to be something that it is not. That's heinous and shouldn't be defended.

Potential for misunderstanding is everywhere hence the need for thorough clarity.

Jumpin said:
I'm mostly amused at how conservatives are so fucking outraged about one of the tamest protest movements I have ever seen.
It looks like what they have done has worked far better than anyone expected.

Anyway, it sounds like Republicans are buying Nikes to cut them up or burn them. Their sales have gone up by 31%. Their current market cap at 133B is an all-time high.

I'm not sure it's Republicans who are buying Nikes and I don't think Nike is foolish enough to not understand who their market is.

SpokenTruth said:
KLAMarine said:

It's inevitable that any protest be met with some resistance for whatever reason. My problem with kneeling is there is a better way to protest. Doing it during the anthem gives people license to treat the protest or intended discussion about something else other than police brutality or even just spite it because it happens during the anthem which is profound and sacred to many people.

Now that you bring up Dr. King, Dr. King had it right:

Clearly worded, neatly worded signs during peaceful marches were the right way and making speeches. Dr. King was known for his oratory and one of his major highlights, my favorite one, a speech before the Lincoln Memorial.

I'm sure Dr. King alienated some but his dedication to non-violence ensured that was kept to a minimum.

Kaepernick seems more known for his silence or one would think per the New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/04/sports/colin-kaepernick-nfl-anthem-kneeling.html

Silence isn't really dialogue or at least, not a terribly engaging form of dialogue...

 

At the end of the day, I'm not saying one shouldn't protest during the anthem. I'm just saying if one wishes to do so, they should prepare for their words (or lack of words) and intentions to be twisted and warped by those who were alienated not by the substance of the protest but rather by its form.

Remember that "don't protest like that" picture I posted?  Here you are telling them how to protest.   But when they do protest like that, they still get told not to do that.

First several entries in a Google search for "Protest blocking streets" are all about "don't protest that way".  That same year as your Dr. King picture above, the police water cannoned the protestors as he led them in the streets in Montgomery, Alabama.  Hell, water cannons have been used as recently as 2 years ago....with temperatures down to 23 degrees F.

Y'all won't be happy unless they protest in a way that isn't seen or heard. 

"Remember that "don't protest like that" picture I posted?  Here you are telling them how to protest."

>I disagree but for the sake of argument, let's say I did just tell them how to protest. Was there something wrong with the way I told them how to protest? Did I deny them six different ways to voice their grievances like in the picture you posted?

"But when they do protest like that, they still get told not to do that."

>I suggest they learn to ignore unreasonable demands or better yet, learn how to respond to unreasonable demands much like Dr. King learned to ignore/respond to some of his detractors.

"First several entries in a Google search for "Protest blocking streets" are all about "don't protest that way"."

>That makes some sense. What if an ambulance, police car, or fire truck is trying to get through to an emergency situation but traffic caused by protestors blocking streets hold them up?

"That same year as your Dr. King picture above, the police water cannoned the protestors as he led them in the streets in Montgomery, Alabama."

>And I recall it winning the protestors support from the public.

"Y'all won't be happy unless they protest in a way that isn't seen or heard."

>Y'all? I'm only one person, who is this "y'all"?

EricHiggin said:
KLAMarine said:

Serena is fighting for equality. In a list of most-expensive tennis fines, she came first in a list filled with white men.

https://www.therichest.com/rich-list/the-biggest/10-of-the-biggest-fines-in-the-history-of-tennis/?v=8&n=f

Granted, this list is probably outdated but as far as it's concerned, people like Venus Williams and other women have some major catching up to do...

So in a game where your expected to act in a proper civilized manner (much like life in general), she's the worst offender of all time, and she expects people to listen to her? That's like saying the worst most vile criminal in the world is fighting for human rights, so we should all listen to them with our undivided attention. The villain obviously knows best.

If your looking to point out how unfair things are, being the best at being the worst is not how you go about it. Complaining about those white men who get away with everything, all 9 of them, makes waaaay too much sense when she's number 1.  LOL

I don't know if she's the worst offender, just that the list has her at number 1. Perhaps her getting penalized recently had nothing to do with her being a woman or being black and just had to do with her being Serena Williams?..

I don't know, honestly. I don't follow tennis...



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Rab said:
Machiavellian said:

Lol, well if you call making Naomi a white blond blue eye woman even handed then I have a bridge to sell you.  The picture has a lot of symbolism in it but one thing for sure is you have a picture of a huge black woman jumping up and down looking like one of those nice sambo caricatures while you present the other person as this innocent white blond blue eye woman.  No, I have no clue about racism in Australia, only thing I do know is that you tried to present the Australian press in a light as if they are innocent of any type of stereotypical viewpoint while supporting a stereotypical view point. 

People like to throw the word racist around alot put I will be the first to say that everything isn't racist but stereotypical is something totally different.  What that cartoon says is you have a certain viewpoint towards black woman.  First you made her look fat, next you gave her some really nice big lips, then you suggest the opponent is a white blue eyed white woman suggesting she should give the angry black woman the win.  Whether you understand the stereotypical representation made or not doesn't excuse that you fell right into that stereotypical viewpoint.

Where are the blue eyes in that cartoon? Naomi also has a blonde ponytail in real life, Serena is huge and she also has big lips (These little facts that you ignore show me your bias immediately)

That cartoon is a caricature, all features are exaggerated, your deliberately blowing this out to suit your agenda, which will only backfire on race relations, everyone should be fair game for satire, I find you very disingenuous and will not engage with you further  

 

Some of his other art, one of Amanda Vanstone an Australian politician, he has done our past Prime Minister of Australia  with huge ears to exaggerate his features, no one blinked an eye, he has many more examples, even of Australian tennis players with hugely exaggerated features   

Don't just assume your way through life  

WTF, the cartoon doesn't even closely resemble Serena. How dare they draw such a hideous looking spectacle and try and pass it off as a caricature. They literally set out to make it as grotesque as possible and completely failed at conveying the point. "Oh the caricature has big lips, therefore it represents Serena" Are you KIDDING me?!?! 



PortisheadBiscuit said:

WTF, the cartoon doesn't even closely resemble Serena. How dare they draw such a hideous looking spectacle and try and pass it off as a caricature. They literally set out to make it as grotesque as possible and completely failed at conveying the point. "Oh the caricature has big lips, therefore it represents Serena" Are you KIDDING me?!?! 

Is this a joke? Yes it does resemble her in caricature, her behaviour at the tennis was grotesque and the cartoon conveys that grotesque spoilt brat behaviour beautifully, btw Serena does have big lips, white washing that fact really just shows your bias    

 

Amanda Vanstone's tiny lips are also displayed here, not sure anyone spat the dummy over that :)

Last edited by Rab - on 12 September 2018

Rab said:
PortisheadBiscuit said:

WTF, the cartoon doesn't even closely resemble Serena. How dare they draw such a hideous looking spectacle and try and pass it off as a caricature. They literally set out to make it as grotesque as possible and completely failed at conveying the point. "Oh the caricature has big lips, therefore it represents Serena" Are you KIDDING me?!?! 

Is this a joke? Yes it does resemble her in caricature, her behaviour at the tennis was grotesque and the cartoon conveys that grotesque spoilt brat behaviour beautifully, btw Serena does have big lips, white washing that fact really just shows your bias    

 

Amanda Vanstone's tiny lips are also displayed here, not sure anyone spat the dummy over that :)

Amanda Vanstone's caricature face actually resembles her REAL face albeit enlarged. Not sure if you're suffering from an extreme astigmatism, or if it's willful ignorance, but Serena's caricature looks nothing like her. They honestly tried to make her look beastly, which is disgusting. Sure she could've behaved better deing the US Open final, but to dehumanize her is way over the top. 



PortisheadBiscuit said:

Amanda Vanstone's caricature face actually resembles her REAL face albeit enlarged. Not sure if you're suffering from an extreme astigmatism, or if it's willful ignorance, but Serena's caricature looks nothing like her. They honestly tried to make her look beastly, which is disgusting. Sure she could've behaved better deing the US Open final, but to dehumanize her is way over the top. 

Your splitting hairs to suit your viewpoint, go and check Mark Knights work yourself if you can be bothered 

I see it as recognisably Serena at her worst, her behaviour was dehumanising and over the top, ever seen a 3 year old have a tantrum, it's not pretty, I guess the caricature captured that, she doesn't deserve any sympathy after her dreadful display, the Umpire and Naomi on the other hand do  

Also the Booing crowd was a disgrace and very upsetting for Naomi, all supporting Serena's bad behaviour, it was like watch a pack of dogs attacking something, all jumping in to defend the pack leader, hope your not one of those   

Last edited by Rab - on 13 September 2018

Rab said:
PortisheadBiscuit said:

Amanda Vanstone's caricature face actually resembles her REAL face albeit enlarged. Not sure if you're suffering from an extreme astigmatism, or if it's willful ignorance, but Serena's caricature looks nothing like her. They honestly tried to make her look beastly, which is disgusting. Sure she could've behaved better deing the US Open final, but to dehumanize her is way over the top. 

Your splitting hairs to suit your viewpoint, go and check Mark Knights work yourself if you can be bothered 

I see it as recognisably Serena at her worst, her behaviour was dehumanising and over the top, I guess the caricature captured that, she doesn't deserve any sympathy after her dreadful display, the Umpire and Naomi on the other hand do  

Serena at her worst? The hyperbole is so intense this week it's causing amnesia. What about the 2009 debacle? That was exponentially worse as evidenced by her $92,000 fine by the USTA in 2009 vs the $17,000 for Saturday's events.

Anyhoo, it's quite comical that one group of people can be offended by Serena's meltdown this past Saturday yet can easily turn a blind eye to equally offensive illustrations at her expense. Multiple parties are guilty of outrage culture, not just leftists, feminists, civil rights activists, etc;